RE: Honda NSX-R: Spotted
Discussion
Bladedancer said:
Just helped to tune the suspension so nothing important at all.
As I understand it, he spent a day driving the car on track and gave some feedback to the development team. Now whilst that is 'some input' to the car's development, in the context of the thousands of hours of total development time, I would argue that it's a fairly light touch. Sounds nice in the marketing though. Bladedancer said:
Frankly to me - they are. Seriously, I don't understand the fascination with Porsches. Old 911s didn't drive that well and were prone to flying off into random elements of the scenery if they didn't like how you cornered.
Engine sound is just wrong and to me not pleasant at all.
Yes, cliche, but they DO look like a Bettle with X-many facelifts.
Reliability wise they are not quite what people think they are (btw in case you want to quote Dekra - first find out how the report is complied. You'll see why Porsche is so high.)
And it ain't a bull or prancing horse...
After owning one I remember the NSX fondly, but I still sold it. I don't understand any of the inflated prices for cars but it's market demand. The reason is, that despite you believing anything that comes out of Stuttgart is hopeless the reality is that people like them, and like them enough to pay serious cash for them. The 911 is an iconic car, to say anything else is just foolish. Engine sound is just wrong and to me not pleasant at all.
Yes, cliche, but they DO look like a Bettle with X-many facelifts.
Reliability wise they are not quite what people think they are (btw in case you want to quote Dekra - first find out how the report is complied. You'll see why Porsche is so high.)
And it ain't a bull or prancing horse...
soad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
cirian75 said:
massive saving to import one from Japan even after costs
Can you give example?http://www.japan-partner.com/Auto/6473/Honda/NSX/c...
Newer (expensive) car:
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/HONDA/NSX...
Guvernator said:
JMF894 said:
I agree with you here but I must take issue with one point:
To suggest ignorance if people do not appreciate Honda's engineering pedigree but then refer to Porsche's 911 as an over-priced beetle is disrespectful and contradictory.
Jimbo
I appreciate their engineering just as much if not more so than most other cars, I just don't think they are worth some of the insane prices being asked either so my reference to overpriced beetles was a tongue in cheek stab at the prices, not at Porches engineering pedigree which I think is also excellent (on the whole).To suggest ignorance if people do not appreciate Honda's engineering pedigree but then refer to Porsche's 911 as an over-priced beetle is disrespectful and contradictory.
Jimbo
Bladedancer said:
lauda said:
Bladedancer said:
Kudos you say. Can Porsche say that Senna helped develop and tune their car?
[..] I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Senna actually had very little input in the development of the car. Given the final product was such a sweet handler, the ranking the relative importance of Mr.Senna's comments is perhaps pointless.
yonex said:
Bladedancer said:
Frankly to me - they are. Seriously, I don't understand the fascination with Porsches. Old 911s didn't drive that well and were prone to flying off into random elements of the scenery if they didn't like how you cornered.
Engine sound is just wrong and to me not pleasant at all.
Yes, cliche, but they DO look like a Bettle with X-many facelifts.
Reliability wise they are not quite what people think they are (btw in case you want to quote Dekra - first find out how the report is complied. You'll see why Porsche is so high.)
And it ain't a bull or prancing horse...
After owning one I remember the NSX fondly, but I still sold it. I don't understand any of the inflated prices for cars but it's market demand. The reason is, that despite you believing anything that comes out of Stuttgart is hopeless the reality is that people like them, and like them enough to pay serious cash for them. The 911 is an iconic car, to say anything else is just foolish. Engine sound is just wrong and to me not pleasant at all.
Yes, cliche, but they DO look like a Bettle with X-many facelifts.
Reliability wise they are not quite what people think they are (btw in case you want to quote Dekra - first find out how the report is complied. You'll see why Porsche is so high.)
And it ain't a bull or prancing horse...
All I wanted to say that I do not understand fascination with Porsche because I don't. Perhaps I should have said that I do not understand fascination with 911 to be specific. Because for me it is essentially a car that has looked the same for 5 decades.
Porsche once upon a time could find the courage to depart from 911 template. I still like the 944s, 968s, 928s and of course the 959 (despite its 911 inspired looks).
Now it would seem they cannot. They make 911. They make hiked up SUV 911 - the Cayenne. They make stretched 911 with 2 extra seats - Panamera. They make 911's smaller brother - Cayman and they make Baby 911 - Boxter. All the same template.
Porsche is an iconic car. To be specific 1970s Carreras are iconic cars. Today its just rehash by a company that never moved on. Also their success means they are common. They are not as exclusive as they once were.
I know people like them. They sell a bunch so one would assume people do like the car they are buying. I know they are probably good cars and handling in 996 and never ones isn't a problem. I know they are fun to drive. But I still do not understand the fascination. I could get ALL of that and then some in a GTR.
As for NSX prices - it is a rare car. There are plenty 911s around. There are very few NSXs around and Type-R is even rarer still. That means they can fetch sill prices are it is difficult to ascertain the value of something that hardly anyone sells.
The NSX-R / 964RS is probably the fairest comparison on here (i.e. both are genuinely stunning machines to drive on road or track with very little expense spared in their development and with generally robust underpinnings, unlike contemporary Italian metal), with two caveats:-
1) IN EUROPE (!) the 911 has a much stronger competition heritage, and the RS is (2.7RS and lairy 993 GT2 possibly excepted) the closest to the actual motorsport machines that the aircooled customer cars ever reached. LM 1995 and multiple JGTC championships (plus some serious trophies in the US as well) don't seem to come into it...
2) The Porsche badge vs the Honda badge. European 'collector' markets STILL have a problem with a Japanese badge.
...hence the 2x price differential.
PS - what's wrong with yellow?!?
1) IN EUROPE (!) the 911 has a much stronger competition heritage, and the RS is (2.7RS and lairy 993 GT2 possibly excepted) the closest to the actual motorsport machines that the aircooled customer cars ever reached. LM 1995 and multiple JGTC championships (plus some serious trophies in the US as well) don't seem to come into it...
2) The Porsche badge vs the Honda badge. European 'collector' markets STILL have a problem with a Japanese badge.
...hence the 2x price differential.
PS - what's wrong with yellow?!?
Nothing wrong with yellow but it really depends on the shade.
The yellow I see on Focus ST's isn't great, it's too 'mustardy' for my liking and then the Yellow that was available on the first Seat Leon's was awful for lacquer peel and fade yet Renault's Liquid Yellow, as seen on Renaultsport Megane's and Clio's is awesome. Some cars seem to suit far better than others too!
The yellow I see on Focus ST's isn't great, it's too 'mustardy' for my liking and then the Yellow that was available on the first Seat Leon's was awful for lacquer peel and fade yet Renault's Liquid Yellow, as seen on Renaultsport Megane's and Clio's is awesome. Some cars seem to suit far better than others too!
Edited by MissChief on Tuesday 26th May 15:46
GT3-RS said:
daveco said:
Surely even more special than a 964RS, given the Porsche's disadvantage in its layout, aero, and engine power?
I bet the this engine sounds better too!
LMFAO.....even more special and sounds better than a 964RS?......clearly you've never heard or driven one....such a Clarksonesque statement...as far as I can see the market place (people) dictate what's more special / desirable does it notI bet the this engine sounds better too!
Edited by daveco on Thursday 21st May 11:26
Given that their respective 'mainstream' starting points were (a) pretty damn good, if a little dated in the case of the 964; and (b) slanted in the Honda's favour for both ownership and driving, I suspect that even Porsche's famous RennSport division may have found a match for the RS in the -R.
More seriously, it's a very fair comparison:-
- Both had what amounted to a blueprinted engine and shorter gearing
- Both were significantly lighter and stiffer (sprung and chassis) than the donor car
- Both were developed with track work firmly in mind
- Both were developed by teams with a strong recent motorsport pedigree
You're going to get fanboys on each side, and I'm not sure anyone has done a proper comparison in print, so it's difficult to be sure. I'd happily have either...
More seriously, it's a very fair comparison:-
- Both had what amounted to a blueprinted engine and shorter gearing
- Both were significantly lighter and stiffer (sprung and chassis) than the donor car
- Both were developed with track work firmly in mind
- Both were developed by teams with a strong recent motorsport pedigree
You're going to get fanboys on each side, and I'm not sure anyone has done a proper comparison in print, so it's difficult to be sure. I'd happily have either...
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