RE: British-built track specials: Market Watch

[anonymous-user]

nickfrog said:

Even if you were half right (and you're not), why do you care so much about other people's money or the way they spend it /

Do your own thing, I am sure they will leave you alone.

It's truly bizarre.

[nickfrog]

Equus said:

When they come on a public forum trying to persuade others that it makes financial sense, it needs challenging, otherwise some poor sap who doesn't understand basic maths might actually believe them.

Report them to HMRC. At once.

On a serious note, I haven't seen anyone trying to persuade anyone to do anything in this thread. You might be judging others by your own standards.

[lemmingjames]

Rich_W said:

Or buy a Superbike for £10K and fit some race slicks.

Much MUCH cheaper and comparable for thrills.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/yamah...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/bmw/s...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/honda...

You're welcome

until you crash and get fked up in the process

[Robert-nszl1]

I'm conscious that thBAC is in a price bracket of its own, but a top end Caterham is up there with an Ariel. Anyone give a view as to their respective merits? Especially if you are going to use them on roads as well as track

[coppice]

CABC said:

a nice kitchen costs 50k and might last quite a few years, but don't be surprised when the next owner rips it out and starts again. Of course, that depreciation is hidden within the housing bubble.
I'm reliably told, by she who knows, that good handbags last a lifetime. I still find it odd that they get their own little chair in restaurants.
I only need a Dacia. But i'll waste my money happily on cars thank you.

Bloody hell , if a nice kitchen is £50k what on earth does a good one cost? My last new one cost a third the price of my Seven and I am still in shock .Mind you, I do live in Yorkshire...

[anonymous-user]

Robert-nszl1 said:

I'm conscious that thBAC is in a price bracket of its own, but a top end Caterham is up there with an Ariel. Anyone give a view as to their respective merits? Especially if you are going to use them on roads as well as track

Caterham's generally easier to get in and go fast but once you get used to the Atom it's not far off, if anything with the right setup? Plus points on the Atom, again IMO, build quality, more about fun than composure, excellent factory which listens to its customers and evolves the product and offers strong residuals. It's something which doesn't take itself too seriously really. More in my thread about the car about ownership etc. Both are most awesome things to own.

[anonymous-user]

coppice said:

Bloody hell , if a nice kitchen is £50k what on earth does a good one cost? My last new one cost a third the price of my Seven and I am still in shock .Mind you, I do live in Yorkshire...

£100-150K, a friend of mine has fitted some in that ballpark. Have a look here

http://www.perrinandrowe.co.uk/the-world-of-perrin...

[cib24]

coppice said:

Bloody hell , if a nice kitchen is £50k what on earth does a good one cost? My last new one cost a third the price of my Seven and I am still in shock .Mind you, I do live in Yorkshire...

Any good/item in life can be cheap or ludicrously expensive. For example,

You can buy a £30 Casio digital watch,

a £200 Seiko,

a £600 Christopher Ward,

a £1,000 Tag Formula One,

a £3,000 Omega,

a £10,000-15,000 IWC, Bell & Ross or Breitling,

or a £30,000 - £1,000,000 Perpetual Calendar watch.

It's all up to you and there is a market out there for each price range.

[BigBen]

Equus said:

yonex said:

Net loss on the first one £50 a year, net loss on the second, zero.

Both of which were already second-hand. You're really not getting it, are you?

I am in agreement with you when it comes to new cars but wasn't the article about second hand cars?

I am also not sure pence per mile is a sensible comparison metric, for instance I think most of the track car companies suggest that for maintenance 1 track mile = 5 or 6 road miles, perhaps that should also be applied to depreciation? track miles would certainly shag your low depreciating family car much more quickly than they would an Atom or any of the other lightweights.

[spanky3]

I'm a caterham owner. Why? I used to do bike track days - 3 grand will get you a well sorted mental trackbike but then trailer, slicks, warmers, wets, fuel and about 2 hours at each end to load/unload. After a mishap or two plus getting fed up with all the faff I bought a cheap 8 year old caterham for a good price. Insurance, tax, MOT is under £450 a year (and that's mostly tax). Zero depreciation so far, in fact it seems to rise in value with inflation. The only cost is not being able to use the money elsewhere. Obviously if I'd bought new it would be a different story but buy right and they're pretty much free motoring.

[GFWilliams]

Interesting thread about residuals on lightweight sports cars. I have had a VX220 which I broke even on after 10k miles.

I'm soon going to be selling my Caterham which while it'll sell for more than I paid for it, I'll probably lose a load of money which I've spent in running costs and making it in brilliant condition. While frustrating that it's cost me so much to run, I'm not too bothered in the grand scheme of things as I've done 7000 miles in the Caterham in a year which is pretty crazy and I've had many great times in it.

I now have a V6 Exige which IMO is just as much at home on a track as my Caterham, and that realistically I've lost £5k on since I bought it in November. Until I sell it I don't honestly care, I absolutely love the car and that enjoyment is greater than the amount it's costing me and as long as that is the case I'll keep the car.

[stormcloud123]

This is very confusing, a track car / toy cannot be seen as having poor residuals based on mileage! You'll never rack up the miles in an open top track car to make the per mile / depreciation stack up. You have to ignore the mileage TBH, an Atom after 3 years may have 12k miles on it, the residuals will be very strong, for its age. In this sector the mileage cannot be seen as an indicator of the value you get out of the car for the £££ you lose, its a treat, the depreciation is a cost of enjoyment rather than a sound sensible strong residual do-it-all car like a 911 I guess, that can been seen as sensible (relative term), but it's not a track car.

[nickfrog]

I agree, Mr Equus got absolutely mental over a non-sensical depreciation metric for the particular asset talked about.

[Equus]

stormcloud123 said:

...its a treat, the depreciation is a cost of enjoyment rather than a sound sensible strong residual...

I agree ABSOLUTELY!

So why pretend that residual value is one of their strengths, when it isn't?

Why not simply acknowledge that they cost a fk of a lot to run, per mile, and that you accept that as the price of your enjoyment?

Why try to kid yourself, and others?

[stormcloud123]

Any costs incurred on any car other than primary is balanced against enjoyment. You don't need a toy, and whether a track toy drops 20% or 80% in 3 years, you accept and incur this unnecessary cost. If you must have a toy, there will probably be depreciation, but residuals in general on these things are very very good. The flip side is that these things cost a bomb because you already have a vehicle. Compromise to a single car is what people usually end up with, M3 or so. But if you must have a track based specialist car, it won't be your only car.

[mainaman]

I love the Mono,but the brothers did something that would make even Mr.Pagani scoff-hiked the price from 80 000 to 180 000 pounds!Looking at the waiting list and the current residuals i wont be surprised if they do some more minor upgrades and price it from 300 000 next year.

Kudos to them and maybe they have raised the salaries they were offering too.No negativity here,i realise that the 20 cars per year model is not sustainable without high profit margins.

Edited by mainaman on Tuesday 14th February 00:54

[AdamIndy]

Rich_W said:

Or buy a Superbike for £10K and fit some race slicks.

Much MUCH cheaper and comparable for thrills.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/yamah...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/bmw/s...

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bikes-for-sale/honda...

You're welcome

Equally, most average riders will end up on their face riding on slicks.

I was going to put slicks on my track bike. I mentioned it to an instructor. He said don't waste your money as they will only make me slower. "Why?" I asked. He told me unless I ride in the top half of the fast group(I was mid to top of inters), I won't be quick enough to generate enough heat to make them work. His words, not mine but he reckoned anyone slower only has slicks to look fast in the paddock.

Made me feel st but he was right so I stuck to destroying a rear racetec every 2 days instead.

Back to cars.

You can have just as much fun in a "track" car at a fraction of the cost of a cateringvan. If you can afford to go full retard and buy a 620R/zenos/Atom/Radical etc then more power to you! Can I have a go mister?

[anonymous-user]

BigBen said:

I am in agreement with you when it comes to new cars but wasn't the article about second hand cars?

Yes, that was also my understanding.

[anonymous-user]

Equus said:

I agree ABSOLUTELY!

So why pretend that residual value is one of their strengths, when it isn't?

Why not simply acknowledge that they cost a fk of a lot to run, per mile, and that you accept that as the price of your enjoyment?

Why try to kid yourself, and others?

Because they just don't. Tyres, cheap, servicing, cheap, depreciation, low.

Try a second hand M3 if you want to worry a spreadsheet. In the meantime stop talking nonsense about cars which you know nothing about!

[nickfrog]

Equus said:

per mile

As patiently explained to you, track miles don't equate road miles. Any track day billy will confirm that - think about it.

No one is pretending anything. People compare like for like and have experienced very low per track mile depreciation - live with it mate.