RE: PH Service History: Stamped Out
Discussion
Terminator X said:
julian64 said:
But that's nothing to the number of vendors who think a test drive isn't necessary, or want to drive their own car on a test drive.
I wouldn't let you test drive my car as a potential purchaser, what would happen if you crashed it or someone else drove in to us whilst you were driving? No doubt you'd FRO never to be seen again, yes.TX.
When/if your car turns out to be a lemon who do I sue? Obviously not you. Do you offer a guarantee when you sell a car, or should I sue the last MOT station/Service station you took it to? Do I simply curse myself for missing the problems on examination, 'whoops' no examination allowed!
Either way your opinion seems to be 'trust my car' but 'don't test it' and if not you can 'FRO' whatever that means.
The problem with modern cars as the article points out is that servicing is based on when the car perceives it needs a service which is based on mileage and how the car is driven. I took mine to the BMW dealer after 12 months (indicator still said it wasn't due a service for 8000 miles) and they pretty much shrugged their shoulders. There is no recommendation to carry out a service unless the indicator says it is needed.
I find it odd as typically I've held the belief of a service every 12 months or 12K miles (depending on recommendation). I'm of the opinion that on a modern car I'd want evidence of servicing (stamps & receipts) but on a second / classic car condition and some invoices are more important.
I find it odd as typically I've held the belief of a service every 12 months or 12K miles (depending on recommendation). I'm of the opinion that on a modern car I'd want evidence of servicing (stamps & receipts) but on a second / classic car condition and some invoices are more important.
Johnny5hoods said:
I will always prefer a car to have a FSH when looking for a second hand purchase, and will pay more for it, because despite all the modern electronic technology, a FSH remains the only way to verify the mileage. All other alleged mileage guarantees are baseless. However, for a FSH to prove mileage, it must be not faked ... another subject for another thread.
But is a FSH worth its weight in gold? No. Worth having, and worth paying a little extra for, for the above reason. But there are a lot of people fooling themselves into believing that a FSH means the car has had all the parts and maintenance it should have done for its age and mileage. This is simply untrue, even if it's been 'serviced', even by a main dealer or indy specialist, on time, every time at the ideal age and/or mileage.
Why? Because the ONLY thing that a FSH guarantees has been done is new fluids and filters. This particularly catches people out badly when looking at used Boxsters and other powerful machinery that eats suspension and other parts. What usually happens is, every major service, the main dealer or indy does an inspection in addition to the usual fluid and filter change. They then flag up all sorts of bits and pieces that ideally need changing on an advisory sheet. BUT the dealer/indy will happily stamp the book even if the owner doesn't get the advisories actioned. So, a hapless punter goes to view the car three major services later. The owner has conveniently lost the advisory sheets. The punter doesn't know the car needs £2K worth of new suspension and £1K+ worth of other stuff even though it's been serviced on time, every time by dealer/indy.
When buying any car that's expensive to run, you need receipts for parts, especially suspension, not just a FSH.
Good luck if you think FSH guarantees the mileage But is a FSH worth its weight in gold? No. Worth having, and worth paying a little extra for, for the above reason. But there are a lot of people fooling themselves into believing that a FSH means the car has had all the parts and maintenance it should have done for its age and mileage. This is simply untrue, even if it's been 'serviced', even by a main dealer or indy specialist, on time, every time at the ideal age and/or mileage.
Why? Because the ONLY thing that a FSH guarantees has been done is new fluids and filters. This particularly catches people out badly when looking at used Boxsters and other powerful machinery that eats suspension and other parts. What usually happens is, every major service, the main dealer or indy does an inspection in addition to the usual fluid and filter change. They then flag up all sorts of bits and pieces that ideally need changing on an advisory sheet. BUT the dealer/indy will happily stamp the book even if the owner doesn't get the advisories actioned. So, a hapless punter goes to view the car three major services later. The owner has conveniently lost the advisory sheets. The punter doesn't know the car needs £2K worth of new suspension and £1K+ worth of other stuff even though it's been serviced on time, every time by dealer/indy.
When buying any car that's expensive to run, you need receipts for parts, especially suspension, not just a FSH.
Not strictly to do with the FSH question but related.
It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history.
No doubt it is meant to mean it's not been ragged or otherwise abused and has seen nothing more abusive than one too many cuddly toys.
But it could equally mean it's never seen any mechanical sympathy, fluids topped up or engine run in?
Just seems to be an antiquated statement that should fall away from adverts far sooner than FSH!
It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history.
No doubt it is meant to mean it's not been ragged or otherwise abused and has seen nothing more abusive than one too many cuddly toys.
But it could equally mean it's never seen any mechanical sympathy, fluids topped up or engine run in?
Just seems to be an antiquated statement that should fall away from adverts far sooner than FSH!
QuattroDave said:
...
It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history...
I saw an advert for a Defender, saying it was owned by 'a lady enthusiast'. It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history...
Couldn't work out if it was a lady owner who likes Land Rovers, or a bloke who just enjoys his women.
[[ETA - the advert in question! Knew I took a photo of it, it quite amused me.
Yes, I need to get out more]]
Edited by WarrenB on Thursday 22 March 00:53
QuattroDave said:
Not strictly to do with the FSH question but related.
It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history.
No doubt it is meant to mean it's not been ragged or otherwise abused and has seen nothing more abusive than one too many cuddly toys.
But it could equally mean it's never seen any mechanical sympathy, fluids topped up or engine run in?
Just seems to be an antiquated statement that should fall away from adverts far sooner than FSH!
one lady owner or doctor is a warning that the clutch might be on its last legs and the owner It annoys the hell out of me when adverts list "one lady owner" as a supposed plus of the cars history.
No doubt it is meant to mean it's not been ragged or otherwise abused and has seen nothing more abusive than one too many cuddly toys.
But it could equally mean it's never seen any mechanical sympathy, fluids topped up or engine run in?
Just seems to be an antiquated statement that should fall away from adverts far sooner than FSH!
thinks if its running ok it only needs an annual MOT ....
An interesting topic!
Three of the best cars I bought came with zero service history! I am talking about my 944 Turbo! I'd not normally buy a car like that since:
-it had a minor rip on the driver's bolster
-The clock said 170k
-The rear arches were just starting to bubble ever so slightly.
So why did I go for it? To put it simply
-I bought it from a Porker specialist I know very well; they did some work on the car
-The car itself was actually well known within the Porsche Club GB, at least in the 944 circles. It was ProMax Motorsport's Director's car once upon a time.
-Apart from the aforementioned issues the car was actually in superb condition the more you dug and the closer you looked! It had a brand new cooling system, refurbished LSD, new dashboard (yes, I did say that), along with refurbished clocks, and with every bush renewed or uprated. I suspect the bottom end was refreshed judging by its fairly solid oil pressure; it never dropped below 4.5Bar hot idle.
-It had many mods I wanted. KWv3s, Cup2 wheels to house the Big Black brakes, LR tricky bits, 290BHP, and it was run out 250BHP mode. Oh, and it had a switchable exhaust
-It was a true event to drive.
I will admit that my receipt keeping did sell that car and the lack of service history did put off a number of people despite its provenance. It is to this day the one car I truly wish I kept.
The other two cars? Both Mondeos. One was a MkIII 3.0 V6 that was an ex-SOCA car, that I bought at 113k and took to 262k. It drove like a brand new car and the interior was suspiciously new; even the switchgear felt brand new inside! It drove the best out of all of the other cars I saw, even with those with less miles! It did need a suspension refresh above 200k and a clutch I admit; it was a very reliable car with an element of fun in the mix. Cheap too, thanks to LPG.
The other we still have. An ex-Parliament/undercover Mondeo 2.5T. That came with 125k and is now on 160k 3 years later.
Generally I do try to go for service history however, but if the condition and drive of the car is right I'll overlook it. At the moment, my M3 has lots and lots of history but hasn't been the smoothest road since I bought it in 2016. The Mercedes OTOH came with just the MOT certificate, but I didn't pay alot for it either
.
Three of the best cars I bought came with zero service history! I am talking about my 944 Turbo! I'd not normally buy a car like that since:
-it had a minor rip on the driver's bolster
-The clock said 170k
-The rear arches were just starting to bubble ever so slightly.
So why did I go for it? To put it simply
-I bought it from a Porker specialist I know very well; they did some work on the car
-The car itself was actually well known within the Porsche Club GB, at least in the 944 circles. It was ProMax Motorsport's Director's car once upon a time.
-Apart from the aforementioned issues the car was actually in superb condition the more you dug and the closer you looked! It had a brand new cooling system, refurbished LSD, new dashboard (yes, I did say that), along with refurbished clocks, and with every bush renewed or uprated. I suspect the bottom end was refreshed judging by its fairly solid oil pressure; it never dropped below 4.5Bar hot idle.
-It had many mods I wanted. KWv3s, Cup2 wheels to house the Big Black brakes, LR tricky bits, 290BHP, and it was run out 250BHP mode. Oh, and it had a switchable exhaust
-It was a true event to drive.
I will admit that my receipt keeping did sell that car and the lack of service history did put off a number of people despite its provenance. It is to this day the one car I truly wish I kept.
The other two cars? Both Mondeos. One was a MkIII 3.0 V6 that was an ex-SOCA car, that I bought at 113k and took to 262k. It drove like a brand new car and the interior was suspiciously new; even the switchgear felt brand new inside! It drove the best out of all of the other cars I saw, even with those with less miles! It did need a suspension refresh above 200k and a clutch I admit; it was a very reliable car with an element of fun in the mix. Cheap too, thanks to LPG.
The other we still have. An ex-Parliament/undercover Mondeo 2.5T. That came with 125k and is now on 160k 3 years later.
Generally I do try to go for service history however, but if the condition and drive of the car is right I'll overlook it. At the moment, my M3 has lots and lots of history but hasn't been the smoothest road since I bought it in 2016. The Mercedes OTOH came with just the MOT certificate, but I didn't pay alot for it either
.Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 22 March 18:12
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 22 March 18:13
The retired director that I got my 2003 BMW 530I from had lost the service book,but produced sheaths of invoices with every service,bill and even bulbs neatly arranged in a folder.I was amazed at the sheer prices charged by the BMW dealer,£240 for an oil service,£580(!) for an inspection 2,even nine quid to change a side light bulb(£1 bulb,just pushes into the back of the light unit).Thankfully,I can do most of it myself now,and the car looks and feels like new after 145000 miles.So a few stamps in a book just shows the car has had the minimum amount required,what you want is wads of invoices and a diligent owner.He has downsized to a smaller car now(a VW Golf) but does have a Silver Shadow 1977 that gets wheeled out on weekends.Still misses his E39,but he is NOT having it back!
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