RE: Stripped bare: PH Footnote
Discussion
This is one PH article that I DO agree with wholeheartedly.
That said, as a swiss-army-knife supercar-cum-GT the NSX did pretty much tick all the boxes EXCEPT regular track use.
My NSX is the most comfortable, user-friendly car I've owned for 15 years, yet in that time none of my purportedly track-focused 'daily drivers' have lacked aircon, rear seats, PAS or ABS, because quite frankly I'm nowhere near good enough to notice those fractions of a % whether caning it on-track or just having a hoot down a B-road.
Both DC2s I owned were bought BECAUSE they had air-con (a £1,200 option when new, and specced on maybe 1/3 of the cars sold in the UK because of that), for all the reasons the article and others have said.
...and even if you WERE a Stig-like driver and had regular access to a circuit, why would you hair-shirt yourself by deleting the stuff that makes all the in-between drives habitable?
Aes87 said:
I always thought they got the balance right in the 90s with cars like the Z3 M and the NSX - nothing unnecessary but still comfortable, with every aspect of the driving experience properly thought through and engineered by people who knew what they were doing and actually cared.
These days it’s all just a marketing exercise
Neither of those is really a 'road and track' car though - they're both thoroughly road-optimised.These days it’s all just a marketing exercise
That said, as a swiss-army-knife supercar-cum-GT the NSX did pretty much tick all the boxes EXCEPT regular track use.
My NSX is the most comfortable, user-friendly car I've owned for 15 years, yet in that time none of my purportedly track-focused 'daily drivers' have lacked aircon, rear seats, PAS or ABS, because quite frankly I'm nowhere near good enough to notice those fractions of a % whether caning it on-track or just having a hoot down a B-road.
Both DC2s I owned were bought BECAUSE they had air-con (a £1,200 option when new, and specced on maybe 1/3 of the cars sold in the UK because of that), for all the reasons the article and others have said.
...and even if you WERE a Stig-like driver and had regular access to a circuit, why would you hair-shirt yourself by deleting the stuff that makes all the in-between drives habitable?
havoc said:
This is one PH article that I DO agree with wholeheartedly.
That said, as a swiss-army-knife supercar-cum-GT the NSX did pretty much tick all the boxes EXCEPT regular track use.
My NSX is the most comfortable, user-friendly car I've owned for 15 years, yet in that time none of my purportedly track-focused 'daily drivers' have lacked aircon, rear seats, PAS or ABS, because quite frankly I'm nowhere near good enough to notice those fractions of a % whether caning it on-track or just having a hoot down a B-road.
Both DC2s I owned were bought BECAUSE they had air-con (a £1,200 option when new, and specced on maybe 1/3 of the cars sold in the UK because of that), for all the reasons the article and others have said.
...and even if you WERE a Stig-like driver and had regular access to a circuit, why would you hair-shirt yourself by deleting the stuff that makes all the in-between drives habitable?
The NSX needed PAS and a LSD in my view. Without the PAS it wasn't a good steer, having to constantly nibble at the steering, and the lack of a LSD just meant spinning rear tyres. Aes87 said:
I always thought they got the balance right in the 90s with cars like the Z3 M and the NSX - nothing unnecessary but still comfortable, with every aspect of the driving experience properly thought through and engineered by people who knew what they were doing and actually cared.
These days it’s all just a marketing exercise
Neither of those is really a 'road and track' car though - they're both thoroughly road-optimised.These days it’s all just a marketing exercise
That said, as a swiss-army-knife supercar-cum-GT the NSX did pretty much tick all the boxes EXCEPT regular track use.
My NSX is the most comfortable, user-friendly car I've owned for 15 years, yet in that time none of my purportedly track-focused 'daily drivers' have lacked aircon, rear seats, PAS or ABS, because quite frankly I'm nowhere near good enough to notice those fractions of a % whether caning it on-track or just having a hoot down a B-road.
Both DC2s I owned were bought BECAUSE they had air-con (a £1,200 option when new, and specced on maybe 1/3 of the cars sold in the UK because of that), for all the reasons the article and others have said.
...and even if you WERE a Stig-like driver and had regular access to a circuit, why would you hair-shirt yourself by deleting the stuff that makes all the in-between drives habitable?
NSX has got an ATB diff built-in - if you were spinning the rears then chances are it was both together, which is either poor rubber, poor geometry or poor technique.
PAS is a two-edged sword - it really helps day-to-day but robs you of some of the nuance from the front-end in-extremis.
PAS is a two-edged sword - it really helps day-to-day but robs you of some of the nuance from the front-end in-extremis.
havoc said:
NSX has got an ATB diff built-in - if you were spinning the rears then chances are it was both together, which is either poor rubber, poor geometry or poor technique.
PAS is a two-edged sword - it really helps day-to-day but robs you of some of the nuance from the front-end in-extremis.
You learn something new every day. It definitely behaved like an open diff. But I've just seen it has quite low preload? Either way, it was a disappointing car to drive after all the hype. PAS is a two-edged sword - it really helps day-to-day but robs you of some of the nuance from the front-end in-extremis.
Alpinestars said:
You learn something new every day. It definitely behaved like an open diff. But I've just seen it has quite low preload? Either way, it was a disappointing car to drive after all the hype.
To be fair, given the weight distribution and comparatively soft suspension (i.e. body-roll) you wouldn't want an aggressive diff - modern multi-stage ESP systems could dial-out any unwanted behaviour from that sort of thing, but not 28 years ago. And on-track the NSX already has a risk of roll-oversteer...Also, note that (virtually?) none of the modern Lotuses have an LSD, and nor do the Mclarens. For mid-engine'd (road) cars it shouldn't be essential...
havoc said:
Alpinestars said:
You learn something new every day. It definitely behaved like an open diff. But I've just seen it has quite low preload? Either way, it was a disappointing car to drive after all the hype.
To be fair, given the weight distribution and comparatively soft suspension (i.e. body-roll) you wouldn't want an aggressive diff - modern multi-stage ESP systems could dial-out any unwanted behaviour from that sort of thing, but not 28 years ago. And on-track the NSX already has a risk of roll-oversteer...Also, note that (virtually?) none of the modern Lotuses have an LSD, and nor do the Mclarens. For mid-engine'd (road) cars it shouldn't be essential...
Thorburn said:
blearyeyedboy said:
I see why people like their cars stripped bare, but I thought that closed LMP cars lap quicker with air con than without it, because their drivers are then more alert? Obviously that doesn't apply to open tops, and it doesn't justify dragging an interior around heavier than a Chesterfield sofa. But Colin Chapman wasn't always right: sometimes, additional weighty extras can add benefits that counteract their weight.
Aircon doesn't just add weight, the compressor leaches power too. You're right though, certainly for longer periods of driving driver comfort and alertness (hot people are drowsy people) will pay dividends. I'll still switch the a/c off when I don't need it as if nothing else it helps fuel consumption, and in my Fiesta with 100bhp it makes a noticeable difference to acceleration.
I still think it's worthwhile and more fun to have A/C on a hot day, but I'm
blearyeyedboy said:
Yes, granted. Air con is more noticeable the less horsepower you have to begin with. I think the trade-off is better at around the 200bhp mark and above.
I still think it's worthwhile and more fun to have A/C on a hot day, but I'ma fat sweaty lump, er, powerfully built.
Even in the Evora I only put it on when I need it, hurts the fuel consumption too. I still think it's worthwhile and more fun to have A/C on a hot day, but I'm
Thorburn said:
havoc said:
Also, note that (virtually?) none of the modern Lotuses have an LSD, and nor do the Mclarens. For mid-engine'd (road) cars it shouldn't be essential...
Evora 400 (manual) and above have a Quaffe ATB LSD, as does the 3-11. They offered it as an option on the 111R too.I thought I'd read about a couple that did, but knew most (inc. all Exiges, interestingly) didn't.
Thorburn said:
blearyeyedboy said:
Yes, granted. Air con is more noticeable the less horsepower you have to begin with. I think the trade-off is better at around the 200bhp mark and above.
I still think it's worthwhile and more fun to have A/C on a hot day, but I'ma fat sweaty lump, er, powerfully built.
Even in the Evora I only put it on when I need it, hurts the fuel consumption too. I still think it's worthwhile and more fun to have A/C on a hot day, but I'm
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