RE: Jaguar XE S: Driven
Discussion
I’m sorry to see the V6 S XE disappear as I like 6-cylinder engines. Currently I own a 4-door saloon with a V6 petrol engine (200+ hp) so I ought to be right in the target market for this variant of the XE. Unfortunately when I look at the XE S I see an overpriced uninspiring cramped car.
Too many commentators have said that the lack of demand for the XE S means drivers don’t want a V6. I think the main problem here is the excessive cost of the car. The combination of high depreciation, high emissions/tax, high insurance and consequent high leasing / PCP cost has deterred potential customers like me. The old Jag reputation for good value has gone completely out the window with the XE S.
Like most car companies JLR only make their most powerful engines available in cars at the highest trim levels with consequent high cost. The P380 engine has more power than most drivers need and is too big a step above everything else in the range. Six cylinder engines are, in most respects, much nicer to drive than a four. A smaller capacity V6 making 250hp would be plenty enough. With lower emissions to reduce tax liability, and lower trim levels to get the total price down, a V6 under the £40k list price tax threshold would be much more attractive.
Another problem with the XE, like other modern compact saloons is an inadequate boot opening. My family only has one car and it’s embarrassing when you can’t take family members to the airport because you can’t get all their luggage in or buy at IKEA because the boxes won’t fit. The BMW 3 series GT and 4 series are much more practical in this regard.
Too many commentators have said that the lack of demand for the XE S means drivers don’t want a V6. I think the main problem here is the excessive cost of the car. The combination of high depreciation, high emissions/tax, high insurance and consequent high leasing / PCP cost has deterred potential customers like me. The old Jag reputation for good value has gone completely out the window with the XE S.
Like most car companies JLR only make their most powerful engines available in cars at the highest trim levels with consequent high cost. The P380 engine has more power than most drivers need and is too big a step above everything else in the range. Six cylinder engines are, in most respects, much nicer to drive than a four. A smaller capacity V6 making 250hp would be plenty enough. With lower emissions to reduce tax liability, and lower trim levels to get the total price down, a V6 under the £40k list price tax threshold would be much more attractive.
Another problem with the XE, like other modern compact saloons is an inadequate boot opening. My family only has one car and it’s embarrassing when you can’t take family members to the airport because you can’t get all their luggage in or buy at IKEA because the boxes won’t fit. The BMW 3 series GT and 4 series are much more practical in this regard.
stuart_83 said:
Ares said:
Don't listen to the (very) odd detractor. All brands have isolated issues (see the Audi thread where the brand new A5 didn't manage a mile before ending 4 weeks at the dealer).
My QV has done 11,000 miles and hasn't missed a beat. No rattles, no squeaks, no issues. And my experience is by far the majority.
My issue is more to do with the total lack of customer service from all areas of the business. The issue with the car has been overshadowed by their actions.My QV has done 11,000 miles and hasn't missed a beat. No rattles, no squeaks, no issues. And my experience is by far the majority.
I genuinely hope your car remains reliable and you don't have to deal with Alfa Romeo ... otherwise you'll experience what I've been having to deal with.
They are truly fantastic cars, I love mine to bits and is genuinely the best car I've owned or driven, even in Veloce guise. They've just ruined the Alfa ownership experience for me completely.
t. My chosen dealer is a 180mile round trip away, and I pretty much drive past three others to get there.Sad thing is that rather than Alfa stepping up to the German's game, the Germans appear to be descending Alfa's. The whole industry is s
t, in the UK at least.ITP said:
Shiv_P said:
ITP said:
Personally, I find the 3 series pretty bland these days, however good it is on paper, its best feature being available with a manual box, for a bit more interest!
The 3 series manual is naff to drive for any sort of distance because the pedals are so offset
As an ex-XFR owner, the XE was a totally boringly styled car to start of with. In this class you need aspirational design both inside and out. You then need finance to push people to swallow the premium you ask them to pay for the aspirational part.
It does not work if Jaguar as aspirational pricing but not design, however good the car is underneath (and it reputedly is).
Even BMW with its generic design across all its cars has a problem, hence why in my view it recently lost the no.1 premium crown to Mercedes. BMW's no.1 redeeming quality is it finance arm which is incredibly strong in my view, number 2 is car integrity or nvh as they tend to call it.
Come on Jaguar, you can do WAY better. The i Pace is a good example, but the design needs to spread across the range, especially the drab interiors. In fact why not hire a designer from Dunhill, they cannot do a more boring job than you currently are.
It does not work if Jaguar as aspirational pricing but not design, however good the car is underneath (and it reputedly is).
Even BMW with its generic design across all its cars has a problem, hence why in my view it recently lost the no.1 premium crown to Mercedes. BMW's no.1 redeeming quality is it finance arm which is incredibly strong in my view, number 2 is car integrity or nvh as they tend to call it.
Come on Jaguar, you can do WAY better. The i Pace is a good example, but the design needs to spread across the range, especially the drab interiors. In fact why not hire a designer from Dunhill, they cannot do a more boring job than you currently are.
AC43 said:
Rusty Crobar said:
I like the XE but I can't help but think it could do with an S-line/M Performace/AMG-line style bodykit. This just doesn't look like a 380bhp car to me.
I much prefer it like that. It's well proportioned but restrained to my eyes.It is the opposite of the typical UK preference for the bodykit, massive rims and rock hard ride coupled with the bottom of the range engine.
Reading all the negative comments on here about the XE makes you realise how over-rated it was at launch by the biased UK motoring press, namely Autocar!! I never understood how it won group tests when it was 1) slower than the opposition 2) used up more fuel and 3) had a smaller boot and less passenger space.....
also, compared with the original XF at launch, it looks so boring.
I despair at the car market right now. Thanks to brand snobbery, if like me you prefer a traditional large saloon or hatch, its mainly a choice of BMW, Audi or Merc (plus the Passat). I was really hoping Alfa would make inroads with their new Guilia, but alas, it seems reports of early unreliability and the usual poor dealer service will be its downfall. So we get more and more generic Russian doll sized german saloons on the roads, plus the family sized crossovers by the so called non premium brands. Dial back 20 years or so and there were probably a dozen brands to choose a family saloon or hatch from.
Will Fiat/Alfa ever learn? I owned two Fiats from new in the 90s. The cars weren't bad, but the attitude of the service manager was absolutely appalling.
Ares said:
fatboy b said:
stuart_83 said:
Stay far away from Alfa Romeo then!
My month old Giulia Veloce, though stunning to look at and drive rattles like a 20 year old Renault and is in the process of being rejected.
It was in the garage for about 50% of my 6 weeks of ownership.
I thought this may happen. A lovely looking car, and I fancy the Quadrafoglio. But I fear it won’t be in one piece after a year. My month old Giulia Veloce, though stunning to look at and drive rattles like a 20 year old Renault and is in the process of being rejected.
It was in the garage for about 50% of my 6 weeks of ownership.
My QV has done 11,000 miles and hasn't missed a beat. No rattles, no squeaks, no issues. And my experience is by far the majority.
greenarrow said:
Reading all the negative comments on here about the XE makes you realise how over-rated it was at launch by the biased UK motoring press, namely Autocar!! I never understood how it won group tests when it was 1) slower than the opposition 2) used up more fuel and 3) had a smaller boot and less passenger space.....
This is why I pretty much never believe what I read in motoring mags anymore. For me the X Type was a complete shambles...so why would the XE be any better in fairness. cerb4.5lee said:
greenarrow said:
Reading all the negative comments on here about the XE makes you realise how over-rated it was at launch by the biased UK motoring press, namely Autocar!! I never understood how it won group tests when it was 1) slower than the opposition 2) used up more fuel and 3) had a smaller boot and less passenger space.....
This is why I pretty much never believe what I read in motoring mags anymore. For me the X Type was a complete shambles...so why would the XE be any better in fairness. Might we see Jaguar follow in the steps of Ford USA and cease production of saloons....I could really see it happening.
And Autocar deserves to be called out for its rather blatant bias towards anything JLR!
Notanotherturbo said:
The German premium brands are no better to be honest, if you want something reliable and premium I'd go for a Lexus.
Too true. Lexus might not make the most dynamic handling car unless your looking at the gsf or lc500, but when you get in one, they feel special, the seats are incredibly comfortable and fit like a glove. Nice dash and great build quality.If you like audiophile sound quality, the mark levison sound systems blow anything the competition fits out of the water.
Then theres the Lexus reliability.
I'd happily have one on my drive over pretty much every other brand out there every day of the week.
johnag007 said:
As an ex-XFR owner, the XE was a totally boringly styled car to start of with. In this class you need aspirational design both inside and out.
This.First gen XF genuinely had a wow-factor, but the XE was always too restrained. Good looking with bigger wheels but certainly no X(E)-Factor.
Aside from F-Type and the XJR, come on Jaguar where is the magic? Yes I-Pace will be great for the company I hope but they need more halo cars.
greenarrow said:
I was really hoping Alfa would make inroads with their new Guilia, but alas, it seems reports of early unreliability and the usual poor dealer service will be its downfall.
Will Fiat/Alfa ever learn? I owned two Fiats from new in the 90s. The cars weren't bad, but the attitude of the service manager was absolutely appalling.
The early reliability was minuscule, limited to insignificant issues, and almost solely pre-production. Post the software update 15mths ago, they've been almost non-existent, and certainly no more than the prestige Germans (hello 300,000 BMWs being recalled...?)Will Fiat/Alfa ever learn? I owned two Fiats from new in the 90s. The cars weren't bad, but the attitude of the service manager was absolutely appalling.
It's a shame that people still knock the brand based on old/Incorrect data....but more fool potential buyers that miss out on a cracking car that address most of the enthusiast criticisms of the establishment.
The dealers are still shocking, but as said above, just find a good one, wherever, for the once per year visit you'll need.
fatboy b said:
I appreciate that. But this isn’t isolated. A guy at work has a Veloce bought new in the last 8 months. Rattling already. The one he test drove before buying lit up like a Christmas tree on the dash due to the electrical problems. I’m not parting with £65 for that quality and bad dealers. I’ll stick to my XFR-S as I can live with the sub-standard dealers when the overall quality is so good.
Lit up like a Christmas tree and he still bought it? If it wasn't an isolated issue, the forums would be littered with comments. They're not! 10 mths in, the only annoying noise my car makes is the passenger seatbelt knocking on the b-pillar when my daughter doesn't straighten it.
And everyone has a friend that has had major issues.....
Enjoy the old Jag while it lasts. Just hope it is better than the XKR-S I I had for a fortnight
southerndriver said:
Agree, the Ingenium straight 6 should be the way forward but it's approaching 2 years since the first announcement and no sign of it. And who would be brave enough to buy one in its first year ?
...and by the time it is launched, the XE will be ready for replacement....or be even further behind the competition.And even then, the reports are that the I6 is only going to be a warm engine option - Jag can't really compete with the 40i and equivalent engines, let alone anything spicier.
I just hope it arrives before the Jaguar saloon dies altogether and leaves the brand as a pure SUV brand.
Ares said:
fatboy b said:
I appreciate that. But this isn’t isolated. A guy at work has a Veloce bought new in the last 8 months. Rattling already. The one he test drove before buying lit up like a Christmas tree on the dash due to the electrical problems. I’m not parting with £65 for that quality and bad dealers. I’ll stick to my XFR-S as I can live with the sub-standard dealers when the overall quality is so good.
Lit up like a Christmas tree and he still bought it? If it wasn't an isolated issue, the forums would be littered with comments. They're not! 10 mths in, the only annoying noise my car makes is the passenger seatbelt knocking on the b-pillar when my daughter doesn't straighten it.
And everyone has a friend that has had major issues.....
Enjoy the old Jag while it lasts. Just hope it is better than the XKR-S I I had for a fortnight
My Jag is epic. 34k miles I’ve done and minimal issues. No breakdowns in any XFs I’ve had over 110k.
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