RE: Alpine A110 vs. Porsche 718 Cayman
Discussion
CABC said:
...
Really this whole comparison is too charged with fanboys. Best car depends on your tastes, needs, size of fleet, and fashion.
There is no "best" car, but we should be applauding a manufacturer focusing on weight and feel rather than toys, tech and stats. There's plenty of choice for the latter.
Agreed! PH - where blind prejudice matters.
Having said that, it did cross my mind as to how the next-gen Elise would be wrt the A110; I could foresee it turning out quite a bit closer due to modern constraints and requirements.
Romo said:
The name of the game; WEIGHT
Al modern cars are far to heavy, it makes them dull and lifeless in driving experience. You can't beat physics.
So kudos for the Alpine, 1100kg is a masterpiece compared by current weight standards.
I've driven all kind of BMW M`s, my current M2 is nice and all, but 1550 kg is a shame for such a car, I used to own a 981CGTS, nice yes, but 1400kg, so they are all obese.
A long, very long time ago, I used to own a Honda CRX 1.6i VTEC, 1010 kg, 160 HP, it was the nicest drive of them al.
Until you have an accident with a modern 1500kgs car then you'll be wishing your nice drive had more substance. Old, lightweight cars are all well and good but as a daily i'll take my heavy modern barge everyday. That's why they are what they are; to keep you safe. And that's why comparing old with new is disigenious. Old cars' weights were dictated by the same rules as new ones, it's just that the rules, and technology have moved on. I agree lightweight makes for a better drive but people must understand what you get and don't get with with such a car. What more people should be doing is spending less on the daily so there's a bit left for the fun. That way the bloated daily won't annoy quite so much.Al modern cars are far to heavy, it makes them dull and lifeless in driving experience. You can't beat physics.
So kudos for the Alpine, 1100kg is a masterpiece compared by current weight standards.
I've driven all kind of BMW M`s, my current M2 is nice and all, but 1550 kg is a shame for such a car, I used to own a 981CGTS, nice yes, but 1400kg, so they are all obese.
A long, very long time ago, I used to own a Honda CRX 1.6i VTEC, 1010 kg, 160 HP, it was the nicest drive of them al.
Edited by Romo on Saturday 1st September 12:06
Swalsey said:
Why does the article compare every Lotus except the Elise, when the Elise 220 is a direct competitor, £7k cheaper and lighter? It's not new, but if it ain't broke...
The A110 sits between Cayman and Elise in many respects so surely any buyer would at least consider a manual, supercharged, lighter Elise. They aren't that 'raw'.
the elise is not a direct competitor as it stands, it is not practical or usable enough. as many articles have commented on before, in side and outside of these pages. the cayman? you can stick kid and shopping in it, drive through storms in it. then dump them all at home then go to the track in it. the next elise might be. I hope it is, many others do. The A110 sits between Cayman and Elise in many respects so surely any buyer would at least consider a manual, supercharged, lighter Elise. They aren't that 'raw'.
Carl_Manchester said:
the cayman? you can stick kid and shopping in it, drive through storms in it. then dump them all at home then go to the track in it. the next elise might be. I hope it is, many others do.
I do all of that in my Elise, except the track bit. The Elise obviously isn't a direct competitor for the Alpine but then nor is the Cayman. As rightly pointed out, the Alpine sits somewhere between the two in most regards, so surely it would make sense to compare it to both? Just how much more livable is Alpine than the Elise?
Edited by kambites on Saturday 1st September 14:14
Sion111R said:
Pete, you are a step ahead of me. I am yet to see one in the metal. I am excited to try one as if it can really do the “two cars in one” trick and offer excitement/feel and then munch the motorway miles it will be a very tempting proposition.
You should defo get a 4c, very similar to an Elise. My "normal" car is a Ford Focus RS mk3 which I also love.Had an S1 Elise in Yellow a good few years ago and loved that too, but the 4c has double the HP and the same weight. Go get a test drive.
- Pete
PeterGadsby said:
Had an S1 Elise in Yellow a good few years ago and loved that too, but the 4c has double the HP and the same weight. Go get a test drive.
It really doesn't! The heaviest S1 Elise were around 750kg wet with fuel. Even Alfa's optimistic dry weight is 150kg higher than that and most customer cars seem to be the wrong side of a tonne. Even current Elises are considerably lighter than a 4C and they've put on a hell of a lot of weight since the S1. I'd be interested to see a 4C and an Alpine in roughly similar specs weighed on the same scales. I doubt there's all that much in it.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 1st September 14:26
Carl_Manchester said:
the elise is not a direct competitor as it stands, it is not practical or usable enough. as many articles have commented on before, in side and outside of these pages. the cayman? you can stick kid and shopping in it, drive through storms in it. then dump them all at home then go to the track in it. the next elise might be. I hope it is, many others do.
i fear it may be, but i hope not. my fun car needs to be below a tonne, and relatively small too. lights cars don't have to be (too) unsafe, but they must be devoid of heavy toys. I need at least 2 cars.
kambites said:
It really doesn't! The heaviest S1 Elise were around 750kg wet with fuel. Even Alfa's optimistic dry weight is 150kg higher than that and most customer cars seem to be the wrong side of a tonne. Even current Elises are considerably lighter than a 4C and they've put on a hell of a lot of weight since the S1.
My bad.... My Elise had around 118bhp I thought the weight was around the 900Kg but might have been wrong. I thought the 4c was around the 900Kg with about around 260hp. I know other Elises have far more power, was just comparing mine.Edited by kambites on Saturday 1st September 14:23
- Pete
PeterGadsby said:
My bad.... My Elise had around 118bhp I thought the weight was around the 900Kg but might have been wrong. I thought the 4c was around the 900Kg with about around 260hp. I know other Elises have far more power, was just comparing mine.
- Pete
My S2 Elise is under 800kg wet. Early ones were under 700kg. Even current Elises are under 900kg. The lightest 4C customer car I've heard of being weighed was about 960kg. Most seem to be about 1000-1050kg (although those are mostly US spec cars; for some reason the Americans have more tendency to weigh their cars than the Europeans).- Pete
Obviously the 4C is a damned slight faster than a standard S1 Elise though! But not quite twice the power to weight ratio.
Farerfan said:
aelord 6 hours ago
The French thing looks like a Hyundai Coupe from the front. And looks just st at the rear. Styling disaster and weak sales
They are all sold . This comment is clearly stupidity
Many sold to speculators though (have a look at flippers on Auto trader) so I wouldn't read to much into the sale of 130 PE cars.The French thing looks like a Hyundai Coupe from the front. And looks just st at the rear. Styling disaster and weak sales
They are all sold . This comment is clearly stupidity
Helicopter123 said:
Farerfan said:
aelord 6 hours ago
The French thing looks like a Hyundai Coupe from the front. And looks just st at the rear. Styling disaster and weak sales
They are all sold . This comment is clearly stupidity
Many sold to speculators though (have a look at flippers on Auto trader) so I wouldn't read to much into the sale of 130 PE cars.The French thing looks like a Hyundai Coupe from the front. And looks just st at the rear. Styling disaster and weak sales
They are all sold . This comment is clearly stupidity
So thats less than 6. More then 4, though so I guess there is a huge number of flippers and nobody keeping them. At all.
Well I bit the bullet and picked mine up a couple of days ago
Definitely looks better in the flesh, and the inside is a nice place to be - even in their lowest setting I find the seats still a bit to high, another inch or so and they’d be perfect.
Steering is light and direct and the car picks up speed really responsively - there’s a running in process for the first 600miles but I can see the power delivery taking a bit of getting used to - and the times it decides to change gears, both up and down, in sport mode will also take some getting used to, but it being my first non-manual performance car may be influencing that.
Overall pretty happy but think it’s a car I’m going to have to spend some time learning - previous numerous 2 seater Porsches and currently a 987 Spyder in the fold to compare it with, so watch this space
Definitely looks better in the flesh, and the inside is a nice place to be - even in their lowest setting I find the seats still a bit to high, another inch or so and they’d be perfect.
Steering is light and direct and the car picks up speed really responsively - there’s a running in process for the first 600miles but I can see the power delivery taking a bit of getting used to - and the times it decides to change gears, both up and down, in sport mode will also take some getting used to, but it being my first non-manual performance car may be influencing that.
Overall pretty happy but think it’s a car I’m going to have to spend some time learning - previous numerous 2 seater Porsches and currently a 987 Spyder in the fold to compare it with, so watch this space
Done 400 miles in my A110 and can confirm its a great car. My other car is an Exige Sport 380, so a hard act to compete with sports car wise, but on B roads the Alpine is just brilliant.
After driving a 718 I much prefer the playful character of the Alpine and the level of spec you get for £52k. Silly things like the 718 basic seats vs the stunning Sabelt ones in the Alpine.
Remember this is an aluminium bodied 2 seater sports car, that does 60 in 4.5 secs, has a great gearbox, the noise from engine and adaptive exhaust is great for a 4 pot and it just makes you smile when you drive it, There is also some great details on the car that you struggle to see from main photographs.
I will agree I find the front look a bit challenging, but the side and rear with those flared arches just looks great to me, and judging by the number of people who have commented positively on the car I think it’s fair to say the car looks good to most people.
Vs the 718, you can spend a lot of money getting the spec level to same as the Alpine PE and for road use I’ll stick with my view the Alpine is better. However if you want to track your car then the 718S will ultimately be better. Alpine we’re pretty up front to say they aren’t chasing lap times, but more the driver invokvelement and enjoyment, which they’ve succeeded with, all that said if you want track times, then you start to look at Lotus’s...hmmmm.
In terms of vs lotus, the Alpine has the lightness and power of the Exige / Elise range, but also the comfort and ease of access of the Evora. I think they’ve nailed it. Still prefer look of my Exige mind you
Anyway, as with all cars it’s a personal thing. Some will love it, some will not. Either way it’s great to have Alpine back in the market place and offers some competition to the others. All good for the petrol heads
After driving a 718 I much prefer the playful character of the Alpine and the level of spec you get for £52k. Silly things like the 718 basic seats vs the stunning Sabelt ones in the Alpine.
Remember this is an aluminium bodied 2 seater sports car, that does 60 in 4.5 secs, has a great gearbox, the noise from engine and adaptive exhaust is great for a 4 pot and it just makes you smile when you drive it, There is also some great details on the car that you struggle to see from main photographs.
I will agree I find the front look a bit challenging, but the side and rear with those flared arches just looks great to me, and judging by the number of people who have commented positively on the car I think it’s fair to say the car looks good to most people.
Vs the 718, you can spend a lot of money getting the spec level to same as the Alpine PE and for road use I’ll stick with my view the Alpine is better. However if you want to track your car then the 718S will ultimately be better. Alpine we’re pretty up front to say they aren’t chasing lap times, but more the driver invokvelement and enjoyment, which they’ve succeeded with, all that said if you want track times, then you start to look at Lotus’s...hmmmm.
In terms of vs lotus, the Alpine has the lightness and power of the Exige / Elise range, but also the comfort and ease of access of the Evora. I think they’ve nailed it. Still prefer look of my Exige mind you
Anyway, as with all cars it’s a personal thing. Some will love it, some will not. Either way it’s great to have Alpine back in the market place and offers some competition to the others. All good for the petrol heads
Edited by DaveGB on Saturday 1st September 15:39
I can't believe any petrolhead of repute could in any way denigrate the styling. We all know that current safety regs force pretty much all cars to look the same, and yet here you have a striking curvy silhouette with some nice retro detail. Given that we are in 2018 and not 1965 I'd say it's pretty damn good looking. I'd even go as far as to say it's probably the prettiest car on sale right now, short of something like a 388. It's no Miura or Countach or GTO but it is still amazing looking.
I want one. Not enough to shell out the money and buy a house with a garage big enough for an extra car, mind. But if I had the garage space I'd be googling the location of the nearest Alpine dealership right now.
I want one. Not enough to shell out the money and buy a house with a garage big enough for an extra car, mind. But if I had the garage space I'd be googling the location of the nearest Alpine dealership right now.
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