RE: £50k Integra Type R!

[Alpinestars]

WCZ said:

I personally pref'd the dc5 over the dc2 and the ek9 the most

DC5 is good, but nowhere near as focussed as a 2. I suppose it depends on what you value in a car.

[Alpinestars]

greenarrow said:

Alpinestars said:

Car-Matt said:

I think EVO Magazine put that myth to bed a few years ago after their overly bold claim in 2006, good yes, greatest no, greatest FWD, no.

An R26R is better in every conceivable way

Edited by Car-Matt on Tuesday 2nd October 13:33

Quicker, more effective, but not as involving as a DC2.

Really? I've just been re-reading EVO Issue 200, the greatest cars feature. The R26-R made the final five, the DC2 didn't. Jethro Bovington said this.... "It could've faded away in the context of the others, but its so polished dynamically that it stands tall even alongside cars as uncompromising and thrilling as the (Ferrari) Speciale. It really is one of the greats and deserves its place in the final five".

An earlier poster has also rightly noted that track times by UK mags weren't all that special. One that always surprised me was Top Gear Magazine in 2000. The Ford Racing Puma beat it by 1.7 seconds around Pembrey in the hands of a pro driver and the original phase 1 Clio 172 pipped it too......

DC2 - Obviously an all time great car, but another cult car that is IMO a little over hyped at times. The 205GTI suffers the same and I speak that as a former owner of one of those.....

Yep, really. I had an R26R from new for 3 or 4 years. I really like the fact it felt special with its focus (seats, stripped out, cage etc), and damping. But it was quite a clinical car, with no engine character at all, average gear change, terrible engine noise even with the Ti and panel filter, and quite good steering. I never in those 3 or 4 years got it out of the garage for a Sunday morning blast to clear the cobwebs away. It never drew me in. Efficient, yes. Involving like a 2, no.

Even things like the Puma racing and 205 don’t involve in the same way as a 2 does. In fact the FRP is miles off in my view.

[Ali_T]

designforlife said:

The Acura RSX type S got a similarly raw deal (rough equivalent to the DC5 type R) - no recaro seats, no MOMO wheel no LSD, worse suspension, slightly detuned engine, no lightweight OEM wheels and different manual box.

To be frank, so did the UK EP3. Mismatched suspension because they deleted the LSD at the last minute, 20 bhp down on the JDM car, no Recaros etc

[Derek Chevalier]

havoc said:

Car-Matt said:

cb1965 said:

Gecko1978 said:

WTF its a good car but it's been surpassed by others made by Honda. So unless your desperate to have a 1990s fwd car then I suggest the current civic does all you want for less.

Have you ever driven one of these? I owned one for many years, by far and away the best out of the box handling car I have ever owned.

I think EVO Magazine put that myth to bed a few years ago after their overly bold claim in 2006, good yes, greatest no, greatest FWD, no.

An R26R is better in every conceivable way

:ahem:

Engine response
Engine sound
Gearchange
Driving position

...are all unquestionably superior in the DC2. As is centre of gravity.

...and then there's little stuff like looks, reliability, practicality (a 2-seat hatchback? Really?!?)...and arguably ride quality too. While stuff like handling is down to personal preference - the evo boys broadly (but not unanimously) prefer the Megane.

Pay your money / take your choice, IMHO...I'll take the all-rounder Integra...albeit not for £50k!

I'm going to have to question the driving position. I owned the R26.R for a couple of years and can't see that the Integra (I've only been a passenger in one round the ring) having a superior driving position than Sabelt seats with a harness. I'm also sceptical of the centre of gravity knowing how much was taken out of the Renault higher up (side and rear glass, CF bonnet). R26.R was praised for its ride quality.

[Derek Chevalier]

Petrolism said:

Power / weight ratio isn’t that far off a modern turbo Honda type R

Really?

[Ali_T]

Derek Chevalier said:

I'm going to have to question the driving position. I owned the R26.R for a couple of years and can't see that the Integra (I've only been a passenger in one round the ring) having a superior driving position than Sabelt seats with a harness. I'm also sceptical of the centre of gravity knowing how much was taken out of the Renault higher up (side and rear glass, CF bonnet). R26.R was praised for its ride quality.

The type of seat and the harness do not add to the driving position. The Integra had a much lower seating position than any modern hatch.

[DanielSan]

Derek Chevalier said:

I'm going to have to question the driving position. I owned the R26.R for a couple of years and can't see that the Integra (I've only been a passenger in one round the ring) having a superior driving position than Sabelt seats with a harness. I'm also sceptical of the centre of gravity knowing how much was taken out of the Renault higher up (side and rear glass, CF bonnet). R26.R was praised for its ride quality.

They aren't massively more practical either, the only way to get a full grown adult in the back of a DC2 is to remove their heads. I'm only 5,8-9 and I couldn't sit in the back of one without my head being bent at the perfect angle for maximum aching. They may as well be a 2 seater and just have a huge boot. And they're utterly dog st on the motorway with only having 5 years, again not practical.

[Lordbenny]

Its a car....it’s worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

What is the difference between this and a McLaren F1 at £10,000,000?

Edited by Lordbenny on Tuesday 2nd October 19:00

[havoc]

Petrolism said:

JDM 98 spec ran 205/50R16’s with larger brakes than U.K. cars (IIRC?).

UK brakes were 282mm same as JDM 98 - it's the JDM 96 that ran smaller front discs on 4-stud hubs.

Only real JDM 98 vs UKDM differences were the 16" wheels, the exhaust manifold and the headlights. Some people make more of the 98 than it deserves...

[Alpinestars]

Derek Chevalier said:

I'm going to have to question the driving position. I owned the R26.R for a couple of years and can't see that the Integra (I've only been a passenger in one round the ring) having a superior driving position than Sabelt seats with a harness. I'm also sceptical of the centre of gravity knowing how much was taken out of the Renault higher up (side and rear glass, CF bonnet). R26.R was praised for its ride quality.

The seats are great, but not as low slung as the 2. And the position of steering wheel in relation to the seat makes a big difference.

[alfie2244]

DC2

[Derek Chevalier]

Ali_T said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I'm going to have to question the driving position. I owned the R26.R for a couple of years and can't see that the Integra (I've only been a passenger in one round the ring) having a superior driving position than Sabelt seats with a harness. I'm also sceptical of the centre of gravity knowing how much was taken out of the Renault higher up (side and rear glass, CF bonnet). R26.R was praised for its ride quality.

The type of seat and the harness do not add to the driving position. The Integra had a much lower seating position than any modern hatch.

I've just been out to check and I think the bum position relative to the floorpan (which admittedly may be higher) is not that much different between the Civic and the NSX. Havoc - assuming you own both how do the Integra and NSX seating positions compare height wise? I don't use the lowest seating position in the Civic and I'm quite tall.

[MissChief]

I've always wondered, In-teg-ra or Inte-gra? I've always said it Inte-gra the same as integral by my pronunciation.

[Alpinestars]

Derek Chevalier said:

I've just been out to check and I think the bum position relative to the floorpan (which admittedly may be higher) is not that much different between the Civic and the NSX. Havoc - assuming you own both how do the Integra and NSX seating positions compare height wise? I don't use the lowest seating position in the Civic and I'm quite tall.

I don’t remember the NSX being as low seated. Maybe because of the electric seats.

[havoc]

Derek Chevalier said:

I've just been out to check and I think the bum position relative to the floorpan (which admittedly may be higher) is not that much different between the Civic and the NSX. Havoc - assuming you own both how do the Integra and NSX seating positions compare height wise? I don't use the lowest seating position in the Civic and I'm quite tall.

They're not far off - as above, Integra feels lower because of the low rails, but allowing for floorpan height they're probably pretty similar....been 5.5 years since I sat in a 'teg though...

[Jonstar]

SidewaysSi said:

I had mine for 4 years. Used hard on road and track and never missed a beat.

Needed a lot being spent on it to bring it up to scratch though - suspension refurb, rusty arches, fading paint etc.

Whilst it was a very good car, I didn't love it. Never got on with the poor steering and it was never really a challenge to drive. But I do still think of the old thing, V845 GCK where are you now?

But I wouldn't buy another - I do prefer my much modified E36 328 as it is a more resolved machine.

I had it then sold it and struggled to get the same buzz from my next 2 cars, the steering, gearbox and engine imo are really superb. I must admit though, my current modified mx5 is just more fun, I guess it cant hide the fact its still fwd.

[Petrolism]

havoc said:

UK brakes were 282mm same as JDM 98 - it's the JDM 96 that ran smaller front discs on 4-stud hubs.

Only real JDM 98 vs UKDM differences were the 16" wheels, the exhaust manifold and the headlights. Some people make more of the 98 than it deserves...

That’s a bit misleading. OK - 98 UK cars also got the larger front & rear discs as the JDM but earlier 4 stud wheeled cars had smaller discs, as the 96 JDM models.

It’s not just headlights at the front that we’re different on the JDM car. Bonnet, wings, grille, HID projector headlights, bumper & support, lip spoiler and tail lights... these differences are worth several thousand dollars when offered as used parts in the U.S.

The largest and most glaringly obvious difference today though - is most JDM examples that haven’t lived in the UK’s winter weather don’t suffer from corrosion. U.K. cars have known rust issues on rear arches, underside, etc. This means there will be far fewer good ones left in the U.K. as viable collector’s pieces.

[Car-Matt]

greenarrow said:

Alpinestars said:

Car-Matt said:

I think EVO Magazine put that myth to bed a few years ago after their overly bold claim in 2006, good yes, greatest no, greatest FWD, no.

An R26R is better in every conceivable way

Edited by Car-Matt on Tuesday 2nd October 13:33

Quicker, more effective, but not as involving as a DC2.

Really? I've just been re-reading EVO Issue 200, the greatest cars feature. The R26-R made the final five, the DC2 didn't. Jethro Bovington said this.... "It could've faded away in the context of the others, but its so polished dynamically that it stands tall even alongside cars as uncompromising and thrilling as the (Ferrari) Speciale. It really is one of the greats and deserves its place in the final five".

An earlier poster has also rightly noted that track times by UK mags weren't all that special. One that always surprised me was Top Gear Magazine in 2000. The Ford Racing Puma beat it by 1.7 seconds around Pembrey in the hands of a pro driver and the original phase 1 Clio 172 pipped it too......

DC2 - Obviously an all time great car, but another cult car that is IMO a little over hyped at times. The 205GTI suffers the same and I speak that as a former owner of one of those.....

Amen...I couldn't remember the issue number. Having covered a number of miles in both DC2, DC5, Mini GP R26R and other fast fwd cars back in the day the R26R was head and shoulders above the DC2, a much better chassis, very involving, easier to bring the rear into play etc, if you ask me the Mini GP is way better than a DC2 also, more fun, more everything. Lots of rose tinted specs on here

[Alpinestars]

Car-Matt said:

greenarrow said:

Alpinestars said:

Car-Matt said:

I think EVO Magazine put that myth to bed a few years ago after their overly bold claim in 2006, good yes, greatest no, greatest FWD, no.

An R26R is better in every conceivable way

Edited by Car-Matt on Tuesday 2nd October 13:33

Quicker, more effective, but not as involving as a DC2.

Really? I've just been re-reading EVO Issue 200, the greatest cars feature. The R26-R made the final five, the DC2 didn't. Jethro Bovington said this.... "It could've faded away in the context of the others, but its so polished dynamically that it stands tall even alongside cars as uncompromising and thrilling as the (Ferrari) Speciale. It really is one of the greats and deserves its place in the final five".

An earlier poster has also rightly noted that track times by UK mags weren't all that special. One that always surprised me was Top Gear Magazine in 2000. The Ford Racing Puma beat it by 1.7 seconds around Pembrey in the hands of a pro driver and the original phase 1 Clio 172 pipped it too......

DC2 - Obviously an all time great car, but another cult car that is IMO a little over hyped at times. The 205GTI suffers the same and I speak that as a former owner of one of those.....

Amen...I couldn't remember the issue number. Having covered a number of miles in both DC2, DC5, Mini GP R26R and other fast fwd cars back in the day the R26R was head and shoulders above the DC2, a much better chassis, very involving, easier to bring the rear into play etc, if you ask me the Mini GP is way better than a DC2 also, more fun, more everything. Lots of rose tinted specs on here

Nothing rose tinted about it. I’ve owned all those cars, and the 2 is the most engaging. You may have a different view. It’s pretty easy to get the rear of a 2 to play. It’s not unique to the 26R.

What’s your experience of the cars in the review and specifically about the 2 and 26R?

[Kewy]

Naturally when you're talking about a number of very good cars, its going to be subjective as to which is better or more enjoyable to drive.

Yawn.