RE: New AMG 2.0-litre is "most powerful ever
Discussion
Deep Thought said:
Dblue said:
Not yet obviously, it's not been launched yet. But the A35 has. -
This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.
The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.
Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.
Hardly appropriate to assume the all new A45 will be like the old A45?This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.
The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.
Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.
Also, who said it wasnt best in class? Its class was the M2, the RS3 and itself. If you wanted a hatch and a car that could go round corners, the A45 was the best in class.
The A35 is designed to match the likes of the Golf R as a AWD turbo'd 300BHP ish 4 pot. Just like the new M135i is going to be. They are fitting a particular mould with the car.
Is the purpose of AMG not overwhelming power and crushing acceleraiton? Is that not their thing?
If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?
Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
421bhp and it revs to 7200rpm. I find that really impressive from a 4 cylinder engine. I was happy when my old 200sx was running 250bhp(modded) from the same size engine!(I wasn't that keen on having to service it every 6 months/6k miles though).
Engines have moved on big time performance/servicing wise for sure. Looking forward to reading about/seeing reviews of this new A45 in the future.
Engines have moved on big time performance/servicing wise for sure. Looking forward to reading about/seeing reviews of this new A45 in the future.
Dblue said:
Deep Thought said:
Dblue said:
Not yet obviously, it's not been launched yet. But the A35 has. -
This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.
The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.
Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.
Hardly appropriate to assume the all new A45 will be like the old A45?This piece is about AMGs power claims and I pointed out the old A45 was already the most powerful car in it's class, that did not make it the best car in it's class, not even close.
The A35 is the new chassis and is undoubtedly better than the old car but still not doing more than matching the Golf R which means it's still a little short of the very best.
Maybe AMG will knock it out of the park, maybe it will back up the monster power with a composed , agile and engaging chassis, I don't know. But it seems their main focus remains on overwhelming power and crushing acceleration stats and not sure that augurs well.
Also, who said it wasnt best in class? Its class was the M2, the RS3 and itself. If you wanted a hatch and a car that could go round corners, the A45 was the best in class.
The A35 is designed to match the likes of the Golf R as a AWD turbo'd 300BHP ish 4 pot. Just like the new M135i is going to be. They are fitting a particular mould with the car.
Is the purpose of AMG not overwhelming power and crushing acceleraiton? Is that not their thing?
If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
Dblue said:
I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"
If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish, 400BHP ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.
Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 7th June 19:08
Osamu Rosche said:
So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?
Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?
SidewaysSi said:
I agree. I would be very surprised if you are wrong on this.
Hes not wrong it what hes saying, hes just looking at it from the wrong perspective.Theres a long running debate if the most powerful car makes the best hot and clearly it doesnt, however there will be people who want the most powerful car. If that is your bag, then your choices have been RS3, A45 and M2. Granted the M2 is not a hatch but its in the same realm on price, overall size and power.
And to get back to his original point which he has backed away from, "The rest of the A45 not really at the races vs the best competition.". (a) he doesnt know that as noone has driven it and (b) AMG is about massive power and acceleration, not about being the best drivers car. Noone buys an AMG because its the most nimble best drivers car.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 7th June 19:06
Deep Thought said:
Dblue said:
I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"
If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.
Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.
Burwood said:
Deep Thought said:
Dblue said:
I said - the new A35 AMG is a reasonable bench mark and its good but its not great. The last A45 was NOT the best drivers car in even the 3 car class you've assigned to it ( I would suggest that as a high powered family hatch that there are quite a few other contenders) , and even your list has only 1 other "hatch"
If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
Being the best drivers car does not equate to best in class. You said initially best in class.If you want a hatch that could go round corners WELL then I reckon the old A45 wasn't in the top 6 in that class. It's not all about horsepower
The last A45, RS3 and M2 were priced in the hyperhatch market, with power and price tags to match. If you were in the market for 0-60 in 4s ish and had £45K to spend then what were your choices? They were - and are - in a different league entirely to the Golf R and the 300BHP ish ilk.
Someone looking an M2, RS3 or A45 doesnt turn around and say, actually i'll save myself £15K and buy a Golf R. Theres a particular market for them.
They'd need to not call it the R+ though....
Deep Thought said:
Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.
The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?
Agreed, the internal combustion engine still has plenty of life left. Whether it be as a primary source of power (until 2040) or as part of a hybrid system after 2040 - there is more madness to come yet, and I can’t wait to see what the competition is planning in response to this engine.The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?
Deep Thought said:
Osamu Rosche said:
So, they are making a completely new engine like 6 years after the debut of the previous one, the latter up to now still peerless in terms of bhp/litre and overall probably the most powerful in the segment. All this (costly) development despite the prophesied death of a combustion engine in the near future. Am I the only one who finds this strange? Why fix the (previous generation) engine that wasn't broken?
Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
Because Audi upped (or are upping?) the power of the RS3 and BMW have upped the power of the M2.Unless it was broken - anyone care to comment on reliability, etc.?
The combustion engine will be around for a very long time, particularly in this market sector. I dont think AMG are ready to close up shop just yet - do you?
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