RE: Porsche Taycan 4S launched with 288-mile range

[RDMcG]

AmosMoses said:

I can see this model being a real Tesla killer, and I’m a fan of Tesla!

yep..agree!

[Scottie - NW]

RacerMike said:

Scottie - NW said:

Dear PH, can you please stop repeating the word "Turbo" when there are none present and stop supporting this marketing BS.
Thanks.

P.S. If you have to use the word can you please either use "imaginary turbo" or "pretend turbo" instead

As said before...presumably it comes as a great shock to you that a Gillet Mach 3 Turbo razor doesn't have a turbo in it and neither did every 486 PC in the late 90s that had a 'Turbo' button on the front.

And also...strictly speaking a Turbofan jet engine isn't actually a turbo charged jet engine.

So a wrong is ok because other people are also doing the wrong...sounds like an odd sort of logic to me.

It's fairly obvious to most people that a razor or PC does not contain a turbo, but in the case of a car i would expect the vast majority of people would expect it to have a turbo if labelled so.

[RobDickinson]

:O

that isnt worst case either.

[RemarkLima]

J4CKO said:

Numeric said:

Am I the exception? Possibly - but I do understand more and more EV will soon answer my quetion and I confess I can't wait!

And that is the nub of it, right there, Numeric gets what a lot dont, so many see it as it doesnt work for me, when it should be, it doesnt quite work for me, yet.

Got to keep an eye on the developments and an open mind.

The real pita about it all, is the mixed up charging network... Loads of places to charge but you usually can't just pay with a credit card, and having to sign up for the scheme and wait for the card is somewhat of an inconvenience...

We have an i3 and it's brilliant! And I was looking at the jag ipace but given that'd then be the family wagon, it just doesn't quite work yet.

The point you can pull into a BP, plug in for 20 mins, take a look at the shop, get a coffee, and just pay with cash and I'd have gone for it... Or this and been 100% electric.

[RobDickinson]

Sounds like there is some cohesion coming to European charging networks, hope it works out.

[Nerdherder]

_Neal_ said:

big_rob_sydney said:

Just imagine if we get power density increases that wind up halving the size of batteries; do you then actually halve the size of the battery, or, do you double the range?

Interesting thread. In respect of the above the BMW i3 has had its battery capacity doubled during its lifetime (5-6 years) without any changes to its packaging. So much so that they have ditched the range extender option as no longer needed. The tech is getting there...

Indeed. 96 and 120 added later. i3 now still a very interesting proposition.

[RobDickinson]

RDMcG said:

AmosMoses said:

I can see this model being a real Tesla killer, and I’m a fan of Tesla!

yep..agree!

I'm interested to know which tesla you think will get killed by this in particular?

I like the taycan it's design and ethos is good but it doesn't match any tesla offering

[Sandpit Steve]

RacerMike said:

Scottie - NW said:

Dear PH, can you please stop repeating the word "Turbo" when there are none present and stop supporting this marketing BS.
Thanks.

P.S. If you have to use the word can you please either use "imaginary turbo" or "pretend turbo" instead

As said before...presumably it comes as a great shock to you that a Gillet Mach 3 Turbo razor doesn't have a turbo in it and neither did every 486 PC in the late 90s that had a 'Turbo' button on the front.

And also...strictly speaking a Turbofan jet engine isn't actually a turbo charged jet engine.

And the new 992 Carrera doesn’t say the word anywhere on it, yet still has two of the damn things sitting next to the engine at the back of the car!

[ZesPak]

This looks like it could be a great model S rival, range should be enough for most people and it'll probably be big enough as well (the model S is huge inside, even compared to it's outside dimensions).
However, I'm still a bit worried about that base price. An easy 20k in options will be had with a couple of clicks. The Porsche will still carry a fairly hefty premium, give up some practicality (range, size, SuC) in the name of handling and interior design.

[stavers]

RobDickinson said:

Article said:

its standard 79.2kWh cell, which offers 252 miles of range,

Uh ok, rated at 24.6kWh per 100km in mixed cycle gives it 320km/200mile range.


Where does 250miles come from? I expect a fair few dissapointed autobahn warriors with this...

The 24.6kWh/100km statement is the power drawn from the wall socket and not the driving energy. All published energy consumption includes the losses for the chargers etc.

The official EU testing doesn't include any additional loading such as lights, AC etc. Better to wait for the US numbers to be released for something a bit more realistic as they try to include factors for the biggest of those power drains.

[AmosMoses]

RobDickinson said:

I'm interested to know which tesla you think will get killed by this in particular?

I like the taycan it's design and ethos is good but it doesn't match any tesla offering

It’ll take sales away from the Model S IMO. If you know nothing about cars would you rather buy a Porsche or a Tesla? If you know about cars you’d pick the Porsche.

The thing Porsche do is make great cars that are of a high standard of quality. Tesla quality can be pretty wonky at times.

The other thing is that this is the new trendy kid on the block, the Model S hasn’t really changed in so long people are bored of it.

The Tesla might be a little cheaper and have slightly better range but the Taycan is a Porsche which we all know makes it the better car.

[ZesPak]

AmosMoses said:

The other thing is that this is the new trendy kid on the block, the Model S hasn’t really changed in so long people are bored of it.

As opposed to porsche, who are known for their refreshing designs.

AmosMoses said:

The Tesla might be a little cheaper and have slightly better range but the Taycan is a Porsche which we all know makes it the better car.

Wow, just... Wow.

OK. Lets go into that. A better car? Better handling? Yes. Better interior? Most likely.
But, calling the smaller, more expensive car with less range and much worse SuC network the better car without any reservation is a far stretch.

I love that there's finally something resembling a Model S competitor, and people will definitely cross shop, but both cars have their strength. According to ABRP, my yearly ski trip will require detours that add up to 100 km and 1.5 hours in this Taycan, making it 11h instead of 9.5 compared to the 100D.

[NDNDNDND]

NDNDNDND said:

Henry Catchpole seemed to think the Taycan is a bit boring...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qT5d3NhOo

I guess how it drives isn't as important as the numbers it makes.

How Pistonheads.

[Nerdherder]

Sandpit Steve said:

RacerMike said:

Scottie - NW said:

Dear PH, can you please stop repeating the word "Turbo" when there are none present and stop supporting this marketing BS.
Thanks.

P.S. If you have to use the word can you please either use "imaginary turbo" or "pretend turbo" instead

As said before...presumably it comes as a great shock to you that a Gillet Mach 3 Turbo razor doesn't have a turbo in it and neither did every 486 PC in the late 90s that had a 'Turbo' button on the front.

And also...strictly speaking a Turbofan jet engine isn't actually a turbo charged jet engine.

And the new 992 Carrera doesn’t say the word anywhere on it, yet still has two of the damn things sitting next to the engine at the back of the car!

Scottie - Are you still there? Or has your head exploded?

[Nerdherder]

NDNDNDND said:

NDNDNDND said:

Henry Catchpole seemed to think the Taycan is a bit boring...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qT5d3NhOo

I guess how it drives isn't as important as the numbers it makes.

How Pistonheads.

What the EV category is does not yet appeal to 'us' car folks. I wasn't expecting the Taycan to change that but it is quite sobering to see Catchpole put the finger on the sore spots. Very good, honest review by the way.

[RobDickinson]

stavers said:

The 24.6kWh/100km statement is the power drawn from the wall socket and not the driving energy. All published energy consumption includes the losses for the chargers etc.

The official EU testing doesn't include any additional loading such as lights, AC etc. Better to wait for the US numbers to be released for something a bit more realistic as they try to include factors for the biggest of those power drains.

No, no it isn't.

[Scottie - NW]

Nerdherder said:

Scottie - Are you still there? Or has your head exploded?

Am fine, my brain is properly intercooled

[JD]

RobDickinson said:

Uh ok, rated at 24.6kWh per 100km in mixed cycle gives it 320km/200mile range.


Where does 250miles come from? I expect a fair few dissapointed autobahn warriors with this...

I can’t get their own range estimator to go higher than 237 miles.

With the smallest wheels, ac off and 35 degrees temp and only city driving.

[Onehp]

Scottie - NW said:

Nerdherder said:

Scottie - Are you still there? Or has your head exploded?

Am fine, my brain is properly intercooled

I liked your imaginary Turbo. But they have been imaginary some time.
911 Turbo should then be 911 Turbo Turbo
992 Carrera S should then be 992 not_allowed_to_be_called Turbo Turbo
Base 718 Boxster should then be 718 Boxster Turbo
Won't even start with the SUV's...

Turbo has long time already been a marketing word instead of a technically correct designation...

Edited by Onehp on Tuesday 15th October 11:15

[RacerMike]

JD said:

RobDickinson said:

Uh ok, rated at 24.6kWh per 100km in mixed cycle gives it 320km/200mile range.


Where does 250miles come from? I expect a fair few dissapointed autobahn warriors with this...

I can’t get their own range estimator to go higher than 237 miles.

With the smallest wheels, ac off and 35 degrees temp and only city driving.

4S, 5% city and 95% country roads, 20" Aero wheels and aircon on eco in 25deg you can get it up to 243 miles with the standard battery and 283 with the performance one. Given that they are possibly being pessimistic with the range calculator, I think 250 will be possible with some degree of considered driving with the standard pack.

I've driven I Pace quite a bit, and I can quite easily get north of 200miles on a motorway which is the worst situation for and EV. For my usual commute, 250-260 would be easily possible and Jag quote around 234 as the WLTP range. This generally agrees with most owners who report somewhere between 180 and 210 on the motorway depending on spec and driving style, and 230-260 on mixed driving.

Driven like a tit, a Taycan will probably do 160-180 miles on a charge (i.e. 90mph on the motorway). Given that London to Manchester is 209 miles and a 4hr journey, and goes directly past the Ionity Supercharger in MK that will do the full 60miles charge in 5mins job, I don't really see it being a huge issue for anyone who wants to buy into the EV thing. Of course the refrigerator salesmen who live in Exeter and travel to and from their office in Blackpool every day will be forced to stick with their £19,000 Insignia for a while longer sadly.