RE: Volkswagen T-Roc R vs Ford Focus ST Estate
Discussion
Water Fairy said:
Just don't buy a howler then try and justify it to everyone.
Absolutely. I ran a A4 Avant for 2 years and it wasn't very good or practical for my needs. I didn't try and justify it to anyone (nor have I seen anyone do that in this thread). I find a SUV better as it's less compromised for my needs and as you say each to their own, so I have nothing against estates, they're just a car too. Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 26th January 14:19
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
Absolutely this and i don't own either.If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
James_33 said:
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
Absolutely this and i don't own either.If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
I’m under no illusions that my car is in anyway a sports car, same for my previous modified Focus which was more er, focussed! You are right though, it’s all about compromise.If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
Regarding the BMW, is that available as a manual? Apart from unapologetically being a Ford guy, a big attraction of the Focus was a manual gearbox.
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
So are you suggesting that an estate version of a good HH is vastly inferior to the hatch?If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
PhilboSE said:
. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono.
No, but the estate is to the SUV as the BAC is to the estate - sharper and better. Any performance estate owner can rightfully look down their nose at someone in an SUV as the BAC driver can at the estate owner. Don Roque said:
PhilboSE said:
. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono.
No, but the estate is to the SUV as the BAC is to the estate - sharper and better. Any performance estate owner can rightfully look down their nose at someone in an SUV as the BAC driver can at the estate owner. A BAC is also on another level to just about anything else on the road, especially an estate car!
DoubleD said:
HardtopManual said:
I'd really like to replace our Golf estate with another Golf (or Octavia) estate. But the roads are now in such a crap state, and are full of SUVs to the point that it's a genuine disadvantage to sit at "normal car" level in traffic. So it'll have to be a SUV. I really wish this wasn't the case.
In what way is it a disadvantage to be sat lower than an SUV?DoubleD said:
A BAC is also on another level to just about anything else on the road, especially an estate car!
Indeed, in terms of dynamic ability and enjoyment the BAC is way ahead of any performance estate. The same is true of a performance estate and an SUV. That's the point I was making. Don Roque said:
DoubleD said:
A BAC is also on another level to just about anything else on the road, especially an estate car!
Indeed, in terms of dynamic ability and enjoyment the BAC is way ahead of any performance estate. The same is true of a performance estate and an SUV. That's the point I was making. 
DoubleD said:
Yep, but the gap between a BAC and an estate is massive, but the gap between the estate and the SUV is much much smaller.
Bob from Swindon has to buy a family car but wants a bit of zing and fun in it. The fact that he could spend £15k more and get an Elise is entirely academic because the dog won't fit in the back.So I'm not sure what point you're making. For its market segment a Focus is a dynamically excellent car. Have you driven one or do you stick to the Zonda?
Edited by FA57REN on Sunday 26th January 21:26
FA57REN said:
DoubleD said:
Yep, but the gap between a BAC and an estate is massive, but the gap between the estate and the SUV is much much smaller.
Bob from Swindon has to buy a family car but wants a bit of zing and fun in it. The fact that he could spend £15k more and get an Elise is entirely academic because the dog won't fit in the back.So I'm not sure what point you're making. For its market segment a Focus is a dynamically excellent car. Have you driven one or do you stick to the Zonda?
Edited by FA57REN on Sunday 26th January 21:26
DoubleD said:
Yep, but the gap between a BAC and an estate is massive, but the gap between the estate and the SUV is much much smaller.
For road use, I would say it is tiny compared to the gap between a BAC and an estate. In relative terms, both the SUV and the estate are equally s
t as a drivers car compared to how good a BAC is as a drivers car. Hence the fact that owning both BAC and a SUV would make sense if the SUV happens to fit the needs better. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff