RE: TVR Cerbera | PH Used Buying Guide
Discussion
I had a new 4.2 in 1997, my 4th TVR in a row and I really didn't get on with it. Its unreliability eclipsed the previous TVRs I had, but the main issue was the driver's seat. It had a balloon style lumbar support and where the air pipe connected to the bag inside the seat, dug right into the bottom of my spine, exacerbated by the force expended on the clutch pushing me back in the seat. The majority of driving I was doing was in Central London so that made it even worse. Super quick, amazing fun, but knackered my back. Gave up after 9 months! I haven't owned a TVR since... I miss their hairy chested brawn, the noise and the fun. I don't miss breaking down at least once a month and their crappy a/c!
env said:
Worth mentioning the very early 4.2s are ‘clatter cams’ and often with the race bottom end. The clatter cams are a mixed bag - they sound like a tractor and you bounce around town like a kangaroo... but then suddenly it comes on and and just flies. These cams also appear to have been made from cheese.
How can you tell if it's a 'clatter cam' version? The cerb vids where the rpm rips round the rev counter looks preferable to me then the slower revving but more torque 4.5 version. Are replacement clatter cams available?
eyebeebe said:
Fink-Nottle said:
I was seriously looking into getting a Cerbera a year ago. I had a chat with Jason Clegg, who came across as incredibly competent and trustworthy, and was determined to buy one of his.
Then I did the numbers. I am based in Switzerland, and making the car road-legal emissions-wise would have set me back GBP 5k or so. Then there's the challenge of driving a RHD car, or rather a RHD Cerbera, in a LHD environment.
And so, I chickened out and bought something safe instead. Even so, the Cerbera is the one British sports car I want to own one day.
LHD conversions do come up in Switzerland from time to time and there is a TVR owners club here too. Maybe worth having a word with TME in Embrach, who were the official importers. I remember them having a banana yellow one for sale a few years ago. I was very tempted, but my girlfriend talked me out of it on the basis that I’m not hands on enough and Swiss labour rates are ruinous. Then I did the numbers. I am based in Switzerland, and making the car road-legal emissions-wise would have set me back GBP 5k or so. Then there's the challenge of driving a RHD car, or rather a RHD Cerbera, in a LHD environment.
And so, I chickened out and bought something safe instead. Even so, the Cerbera is the one British sports car I want to own one day.
sadly those are expensive... more then double of those in RHD
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?ac...
A good friend of mine had a spell of mayb 4 years of TVR ownership; 2 Cerbs, a Saggaris and a Griff - all low milers etc.
Every one was a total wallet hoover - chassis corrosion, engine rebuilds, large sections of trim falling off etc.
From my observations of his pain then I'd never buy a TVR - ever.
Every one was a total wallet hoover - chassis corrosion, engine rebuilds, large sections of trim falling off etc.
From my observations of his pain then I'd never buy a TVR - ever.
GTRene said:
eyebeebe said:
Fink-Nottle said:
I was seriously looking into getting a Cerbera a year ago. I had a chat with Jason Clegg, who came across as incredibly competent and trustworthy, and was determined to buy one of his.
Then I did the numbers. I am based in Switzerland, and making the car road-legal emissions-wise would have set me back GBP 5k or so. Then there's the challenge of driving a RHD car, or rather a RHD Cerbera, in a LHD environment.
And so, I chickened out and bought something safe instead. Even so, the Cerbera is the one British sports car I want to own one day.
LHD conversions do come up in Switzerland from time to time and there is a TVR owners club here too. Maybe worth having a word with TME in Embrach, who were the official importers. I remember them having a banana yellow one for sale a few years ago. I was very tempted, but my girlfriend talked me out of it on the basis that I’m not hands on enough and Swiss labour rates are ruinous. Then I did the numbers. I am based in Switzerland, and making the car road-legal emissions-wise would have set me back GBP 5k or so. Then there's the challenge of driving a RHD car, or rather a RHD Cerbera, in a LHD environment.
And so, I chickened out and bought something safe instead. Even so, the Cerbera is the one British sports car I want to own one day.
sadly those are expensive... more then double of those in RHD
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?ac...
Price seems a little lower than what it was being advertised at in Switzerland. I think all TVRs on the continent, particularly LHD are going to cost more than in the UK due to the scarcity of them.
Ahhh - the Cerbera.
I wasn't sure when it came out as the roof didn't come off and it had seats in the back.
Wasn't swapping my Griff 500 for something like that!
But then I watched as the TVR Centre's first demo car arrived having been driven down from the factory rather than delivered.
It had so much presence, and the original noisy cam engine sounded like nothing else.
Months later I tried TVR in Redhill's demo car, figuring it would be sorted by now and presumably reliable.
They did a good PX on the Griff and I entered Cerbera ownership, a silver 4.2.
Sadly, it was terribly unreliable, I vaguely remember it needing a new ribbon cable that connected the (ahead of their time) controls in the steering wheel - this due to the cable being about 2m long and coiled up around the wheel because they didn't budget to have a short one made to measure.
It went back to the factory to have the noisy cams changed for the quiet ones, and lost a bit of character for that.
As an aside it was about this time that a chat group started that brought Cerbera owners together, and from there track days, and from there another one started by a chap in a V8S, I believe he named it "Pistonheads"..
Anyway, once the 4.5 came out I thought best way to get out of the unreliable car would be to get this one.
Particularly as it had carbon fibre air inlets under the bonnet.
Excitedly, I swapped to an Imperial Blue 4.5 - the carbon inlets never made it to production, instead the weird soft rubber tubes did.
The first meet up with the Pistonheads group saw my 4.5 matched for pace by a friend's 4.2, which I coudn't understand.
Must be the rubber inlets.
Anyway, that car was pretty reliable, and stayed until the Tuscan came out (but that's another long story).
The Tuscan was not good, so I was offered a good deal to get back into a lightweight Cerbera 4.5, and as I had been a serial buyer and suffered some poor reliability, was able to ask for "more power".
This is where the Red Rose version began, my car and another (for a chap called Christoph, from Germany I think) were developed by John Ravenscroft at the factory.
I would call him almost every week to check progress - hounded the poor guy.
Eventually it arrived together with a close ratio gearbox, in Imperial Green (basically black), with black wheels and a sticker on the back of the TVR Centre's logo - an angry bulldog face, and the registration "X50CET".
There was a button in the centre marked (I think) 95/97 which you pressed depending on the fuel in the tank.
It still didn't make the advertised 450BHP - my memory is a little hazy but I believe it made 414/420 and I was told this in a strict "between me and you" manner.
It went back a week later due to leaks in the cabin, but I kept it for a while and it was pretty reliable.
The close ratio 'box was super long, I remember 2nd was good for 80ish, but despite the power and the mean looks it didn't handle brilliantly on track, and from there I moved on to 911s.
So, always a soft spot for these, special cars and many special memories.
I wasn't sure when it came out as the roof didn't come off and it had seats in the back.
Wasn't swapping my Griff 500 for something like that!
But then I watched as the TVR Centre's first demo car arrived having been driven down from the factory rather than delivered.
It had so much presence, and the original noisy cam engine sounded like nothing else.
Months later I tried TVR in Redhill's demo car, figuring it would be sorted by now and presumably reliable.
They did a good PX on the Griff and I entered Cerbera ownership, a silver 4.2.
Sadly, it was terribly unreliable, I vaguely remember it needing a new ribbon cable that connected the (ahead of their time) controls in the steering wheel - this due to the cable being about 2m long and coiled up around the wheel because they didn't budget to have a short one made to measure.
It went back to the factory to have the noisy cams changed for the quiet ones, and lost a bit of character for that.
As an aside it was about this time that a chat group started that brought Cerbera owners together, and from there track days, and from there another one started by a chap in a V8S, I believe he named it "Pistonheads"..
Anyway, once the 4.5 came out I thought best way to get out of the unreliable car would be to get this one.
Particularly as it had carbon fibre air inlets under the bonnet.
Excitedly, I swapped to an Imperial Blue 4.5 - the carbon inlets never made it to production, instead the weird soft rubber tubes did.
The first meet up with the Pistonheads group saw my 4.5 matched for pace by a friend's 4.2, which I coudn't understand.
Must be the rubber inlets.
Anyway, that car was pretty reliable, and stayed until the Tuscan came out (but that's another long story).
The Tuscan was not good, so I was offered a good deal to get back into a lightweight Cerbera 4.5, and as I had been a serial buyer and suffered some poor reliability, was able to ask for "more power".
This is where the Red Rose version began, my car and another (for a chap called Christoph, from Germany I think) were developed by John Ravenscroft at the factory.
I would call him almost every week to check progress - hounded the poor guy.
Eventually it arrived together with a close ratio gearbox, in Imperial Green (basically black), with black wheels and a sticker on the back of the TVR Centre's logo - an angry bulldog face, and the registration "X50CET".
There was a button in the centre marked (I think) 95/97 which you pressed depending on the fuel in the tank.
It still didn't make the advertised 450BHP - my memory is a little hazy but I believe it made 414/420 and I was told this in a strict "between me and you" manner.
It went back a week later due to leaks in the cabin, but I kept it for a while and it was pretty reliable.
The close ratio 'box was super long, I remember 2nd was good for 80ish, but despite the power and the mean looks it didn't handle brilliantly on track, and from there I moved on to 911s.
So, always a soft spot for these, special cars and many special memories.
eyebeebe said:
I think all TVRs on the continent, particularly LHD are going to cost more than in the UK due to the scarcity of them.
That is exactly the problem. There are very few of them, and the owners want to be reimbursed for the costly conversions they did. So you might as well buy one in the UK and do the conversion yourself. Brummmie said:
Purists don’t like mine, 627bhp@7049rpm, 202mph (genuine) 10.62/133mph. Heavily modified LS engine brings it into modern performance super car figures, but still no driver aids.
Very fond memory of the Cerbera. A close family member put down a deposit at the London Motor Show, so he was one of the first to snag the early car. I remember going to a film studio with him, I think Elstree, before they officially released it, where the car was revealed and a small test drive to see whether potential owners wanted to keep the deposit on the car. I recall it had covers on the headlights and they decided to remove them later.
It was one of the fastest things to be a passenger in, the low down ride and that engine made it such a memorable experience. I also recall we had a Goodwood race day and a chap in a Diablo could not understand why he could not shake off this TVR worth a third of the price.. I think he purchased one the following week..
I did spend allot of time at TVR Arkley being repaired and he moved it on as it became so unreliable..
G
It was one of the fastest things to be a passenger in, the low down ride and that engine made it such a memorable experience. I also recall we had a Goodwood race day and a chap in a Diablo could not understand why he could not shake off this TVR worth a third of the price.. I think he purchased one the following week..
I did spend allot of time at TVR Arkley being repaired and he moved it on as it became so unreliable..
G
HM-2 said:
Brummmie said:
Is that running individual throttle bodies? I bet that sounds incredible.In my experience of TVRs the build quality took a drastic upturn towards the turn of the century, and thereafter. It’s easy to understand when you see the state of the wiring etc. on Chims and Griffs why a car of such increased complexity built in the same place, with Low unit developmental engines, would end up with a reputation for being troublesome.
I’ve owned my ‘mk3’ 2002 Cerb for a year now, and the build quality has exceeded my expectations totally. Everything works, including the A/C! Excluding servicing costs the only failure has been the rearmost exhaust rubbers which have degraded over time and left the zorsts sat at a jaunty angle- nothing a tenners worth of rubber won’t fix. The wiper parking is also inconsistent, but when you go into TVR ownership you develop a certain tolerance for these things
Other than that it’s a thing of absolute wonder, the steering feel is fabulous and I’ve never found it scary- I’ve had it to silly angles and taken the piss when I shouldn’t have done but I think the longer wheelbase helps with making it very predictable. The long throw throttle is a life saver for handling hairy situations. The gearbox isn’t exceptional but is satisfying to use and the way the revs rise on the slightest throttle blip makes heel and toe very addictive! Especially the pops and bangs that accompany every overrun period. It really is the ultimate drivers car!
The interior is absolutely sublime, a lot of the cars I looked at when buying mine were let down by poor fit and finish which spoils the immersion but when the gaps are gone and you’re left amongst that sea of flowing multicoloured leather, it’s wonderful. The instrument binnacle is a work of art and genuinely good design, people like to pick at the gauge positions as being a flaw but in reality when the steering is so direct it’s very rare to have enough lock on to obscure the faces. At night, all lit up, it feels like commanding a spaceship! The ‘air mixing’ HVAC is probably more complicated than necessary 99% of the time, but I journeyed home from night shift recently with the hot air fan on max (temps below freezing) but cool air on my face which did genuinely help me stay alert, so happy accident or otherwise it did meet TVRs marketing description. Plus, like all things TVR, it feels very special, functionality aside. I spent £20k and the interior is the one thing that for the money I couldn’t have had better anywhere else, maybe once you get into used Ferrari money more exotic places to sit are available but for Cerb money you won’t find anything that makes you feel as special just observing the dash and your surroundings, sat low cocooned in leather.
The elephant in the room- mine is the poor relation, the Speed Six. I would have needed to spend another £10k to find an AJP that was as good as mine, so I followed the old TVR adage and bought on condition. I could have had a faster car for £20k, but not a better one. Mines had a Str8Six rebuild and quite honestly doesn’t give much away to any AJP I’ve been in, bar the very best 4.5s which are something else entirely. They’re all blisteringly fast, you’ll struggle for a full throttle opening on any public road that lasts for more than a few seconds, so the way I see it it’s a case of diminishing returns. The AJP is a truly special thing, money and maintenance no object it is absolutely the one, but quite frankly a S6 makes a far less anxiety inducing ownership prospect! And when I think about the best times I’ve had in my Cerb, an extra 50hp would have made no difference to me. Opinions differ, but I think all the Cerbie engines make a great noise, so no points won or lost there either.
I’ve heard it said that the later AJPs were far better sorted, and I’ve seen late original V8s with six figure mileages, so my perfect Cerb is a very late 4.5. My later car has been trouble-free and so very very rewarding to own, long may it continue! It’s high-mileage as far as TVRs go approaching 80k, but with TVRs I see mileage as a bit of a badge of honour, cars that have been used and enjoyed seem to be far less troublesome. As others have mentioned I panic bought because I saw prices rising and didn’t want my dream car to become unattainable, so I jumped- and haven’t regretted it at all! Anyone feeling the same way, get it bought
I’ve owned my ‘mk3’ 2002 Cerb for a year now, and the build quality has exceeded my expectations totally. Everything works, including the A/C! Excluding servicing costs the only failure has been the rearmost exhaust rubbers which have degraded over time and left the zorsts sat at a jaunty angle- nothing a tenners worth of rubber won’t fix. The wiper parking is also inconsistent, but when you go into TVR ownership you develop a certain tolerance for these things
Other than that it’s a thing of absolute wonder, the steering feel is fabulous and I’ve never found it scary- I’ve had it to silly angles and taken the piss when I shouldn’t have done but I think the longer wheelbase helps with making it very predictable. The long throw throttle is a life saver for handling hairy situations. The gearbox isn’t exceptional but is satisfying to use and the way the revs rise on the slightest throttle blip makes heel and toe very addictive! Especially the pops and bangs that accompany every overrun period. It really is the ultimate drivers car!
The interior is absolutely sublime, a lot of the cars I looked at when buying mine were let down by poor fit and finish which spoils the immersion but when the gaps are gone and you’re left amongst that sea of flowing multicoloured leather, it’s wonderful. The instrument binnacle is a work of art and genuinely good design, people like to pick at the gauge positions as being a flaw but in reality when the steering is so direct it’s very rare to have enough lock on to obscure the faces. At night, all lit up, it feels like commanding a spaceship! The ‘air mixing’ HVAC is probably more complicated than necessary 99% of the time, but I journeyed home from night shift recently with the hot air fan on max (temps below freezing) but cool air on my face which did genuinely help me stay alert, so happy accident or otherwise it did meet TVRs marketing description. Plus, like all things TVR, it feels very special, functionality aside. I spent £20k and the interior is the one thing that for the money I couldn’t have had better anywhere else, maybe once you get into used Ferrari money more exotic places to sit are available but for Cerb money you won’t find anything that makes you feel as special just observing the dash and your surroundings, sat low cocooned in leather.
The elephant in the room- mine is the poor relation, the Speed Six. I would have needed to spend another £10k to find an AJP that was as good as mine, so I followed the old TVR adage and bought on condition. I could have had a faster car for £20k, but not a better one. Mines had a Str8Six rebuild and quite honestly doesn’t give much away to any AJP I’ve been in, bar the very best 4.5s which are something else entirely. They’re all blisteringly fast, you’ll struggle for a full throttle opening on any public road that lasts for more than a few seconds, so the way I see it it’s a case of diminishing returns. The AJP is a truly special thing, money and maintenance no object it is absolutely the one, but quite frankly a S6 makes a far less anxiety inducing ownership prospect! And when I think about the best times I’ve had in my Cerb, an extra 50hp would have made no difference to me. Opinions differ, but I think all the Cerbie engines make a great noise, so no points won or lost there either.
I’ve heard it said that the later AJPs were far better sorted, and I’ve seen late original V8s with six figure mileages, so my perfect Cerb is a very late 4.5. My later car has been trouble-free and so very very rewarding to own, long may it continue! It’s high-mileage as far as TVRs go approaching 80k, but with TVRs I see mileage as a bit of a badge of honour, cars that have been used and enjoyed seem to be far less troublesome. As others have mentioned I panic bought because I saw prices rising and didn’t want my dream car to become unattainable, so I jumped- and haven’t regretted it at all! Anyone feeling the same way, get it bought
Had two 4.5s in the early noughties and did about 100,000 in them, Starter motors are off a fork lift truck and not quite up to it - same with wiper motors, Second one needed throttles rebushed after it kept lapsing onto full rich. After I sold it it failed its MOT on emissions as the valve guides had gone south but it should be great now. When I set up Drive Espana I used it for the first couple of tours and it was much more amenable in Spain with no traffic and light enforcement
Transmission shunt was always a nuisance, but when you got an open road..... Remember coming off the last roundabout on the M45 in the yellow one (so about 2002) behind some hot foot on some kind of fast bike, Ninja or Blade or something. Anyway, he usurps the fast lane and belts off - but he couldn't get away! Kept looking over his shoulder - still there old boy! These things are awesome quick
CanoeSniffer said:
In my experience of TVRs the build quality took a drastic upturn towards the turn of the century, and thereafter. It’s easy to understand when you see the state of the wiring etc. on Chims and Griffs why a car of such increased complexity built in the same place, with Low unit developmental engines, would end up with a reputation for being troublesome.
A fastidious pal of mine with a long history of buying 'quality' performance cars really fancied a Griffith but after he paid the production line a visit he changed his mind. He couldn't believe the way the wiring was unceremoniously shoved behind the dash. Ahonen said:
Edited as I've just noticed the reply above: I didn't realise the Clarkson car was a 4.2, so my memory is clearly fading. The Cerbera 4.5 press car was savage and had a 5.0 engine from Wheeler's Tuscan Challenge car. But back then everyone did the same thing with their press cars except, I think, Porsche. The Ferraris were all bent.
Interesting. Does anybody know whether there are any good books which focus on such inside stories, such as this, rather than a detailed biography of the detail of individual cars? Edited by Ahonen on Sunday 31st January 14:00
On another thread here, someone mentioned that 'TVR The Peter Wheeler years' included the story that that the Tamora was planned as a sub £25k roadster using a Holden V6 which they could buy in for £3500. Apparently Wheeler insisted on putting the Speed 6 in it which cost £12500 to fit pushing up the cost of the car and giving owners a load of headaches...
I'm sure there would be a great book to be written with loads of these sort of anecdotes, but not sure whether one has been done yet/which is best for that sort of thing.
It's a marque I'll never be in a position to own barring a lottery win, but there's no other manufacturer threads that I enjoy reading as much as TVR, the past and present owners tales are always entertaining, the pictures of those cars are like no other, someone on here has/had a Sagaris, in Spectraflair Silver and it's a thing of beauty, something I'd love to own one day.
j555 said:
Interesting. Does anybody know whether there are any good books which focus on such inside stories, such as this, rather than a detailed biography of the detail of individual cars?
On another thread here, someone mentioned that 'TVR The Peter Wheeler years' included the story that that the Tamora was planned as a sub £25k roadster using a Holden V6 which they could buy in for £3500. Apparently Wheeler insisted on putting the Speed 6 in it which cost £12500 to fit pushing up the cost of the car and giving owners a load of headaches...
I'm sure there would be a great book to be written with loads of these sort of anecdotes, but not sure whether one has been done yet/which is best for that sort of thing.
A couple of us used to talk about writing memoirs, just for a giggle. The stories some of the guys have are incredible and hilarious in equal measure.On another thread here, someone mentioned that 'TVR The Peter Wheeler years' included the story that that the Tamora was planned as a sub £25k roadster using a Holden V6 which they could buy in for £3500. Apparently Wheeler insisted on putting the Speed 6 in it which cost £12500 to fit pushing up the cost of the car and giving owners a load of headaches...
I'm sure there would be a great book to be written with loads of these sort of anecdotes, but not sure whether one has been done yet/which is best for that sort of thing.
I don't recall the Holden V6 story but I remember that the Tuscan engine bay was deliberately designed in such a way that the Speed 6 was the only engine that would fit in the hole. PW didn't want the AJP in it at any cost. I started in late '98, just as the first flip-colour Tuscans returned from the Motorshow at the NEC. The GT racing department building, where I'd be for the next two years, was just a shell at that stage but was full of Cerbera Speed Sixes sitting strangely high at the front - that was just the first tranche of Speed Six warranty jobs. It didn't get much better from there on...
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