Do you prefer usable bhp or more bhp than you need?
Discussion
fido said:
SturdyHSV said:
av185 said:
Try an e92 or e46.
Telling cerb4.5lee to try an E92 is like telling someone to go back to their ex-wife, he has only just stopped b
hing about the lack of torque the first time around 
Thanks for making me smile.
The answer is - it all depends. My daily driver has 136 bhp and meets my needs. but my second car weights in just under a ton, has 325 bhp and even more importantly 400 lb/ft of torque at 3,900 rpm. Now that meets my needs in a different way, is fun on the track but has no modern aids like ABS, power steering or fat tyres. Being older I no longer do long rallies or journeys in it, but when the need for speed comes, I can quickly quench the lust. But if asked what I would like if I only had one car, I think my urge would be to find an old M6 BMW. I don't really like all the modern trickery. I'd love to drive a Monaro though! They do seem to be enormous fun at an affordable price.
Ratae said:
cerb4.5lee said:
... Some might think that I've gone completely mad(and don't get me wrong I do love the M4) but when I had the Mini I really liked how much fun it was for almost all of the time...
...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.
I completely get this. I've got a lightly modified R53 and its one of the most fun cars I've had, I've got a GR Yaris on order but in my impatience I started looking at alternatives for the money and test drove an LCI F80 M3 this week, stonking performance and presence but no more fun than the GR or R53, if anything, less fun. ...whereas the Mini was more like a little yappy dog if you like.
I do like the effortless overtaking performance of the M4 though, and as someone mentioned earlier in the thread...if some numpty tries to hold you off while overtaking(and some do) you aren't going to be left out hanging to dry in it.
Xenoous said:
Usable power will always be more fun on the road. I find the 265 in my Megane is a sweet spot. fast enough to be fun, but not really going to be reaching license losing speeds too quickly. A decent amount of power with great handling is far more important than having 600bhp that you can hardly ever use.
Depends on the car 600bhp. Some are very detached some aren't and demand interaction at all speeds.Don't buy this stuff about powerful cars being a waste of time as you can lose your licence in any car even a Punto lol.
As ever it is more about driver interaction engagement and fun at ALL speeds high and low. Very few powerful and truly rapid cars provide this.
lowdrag said:
I don't really like all the modern trickery. I'd love to drive a Monaro though! They do seem to be enormous fun at an affordable price.
Assuming mine runs after I've built the engine, I'll bring it over and you can have a go 
Any excuse for a gratuitous pic
Edited by SturdyHSV on Wednesday 9th June 17:26
I’ve quite enjoyed the power drop of my recent car change.
My M140i was nowhere near as fast as your M4, but it only felt exciting going very fast, like properly fast speeds that will land you in a lot of bother. It also arrived there will relative ease and not much drama. The effortless (compared to my car history) was fun / useful but it was frustrating as well.
The little 130i is more fun to chuck down a road (admittedly it’s got better suspension with the Birds set up) but there is something nice about being able to keep it higher in the rev range. It’s obviously more than quick enough to get yourself into bother, just not straight to jail and do not pass go trouble.
My M140i was nowhere near as fast as your M4, but it only felt exciting going very fast, like properly fast speeds that will land you in a lot of bother. It also arrived there will relative ease and not much drama. The effortless (compared to my car history) was fun / useful but it was frustrating as well.
The little 130i is more fun to chuck down a road (admittedly it’s got better suspension with the Birds set up) but there is something nice about being able to keep it higher in the rev range. It’s obviously more than quick enough to get yourself into bother, just not straight to jail and do not pass go trouble.
Pistonheader101 said:
Get a NA
The E92 M3 I had was also a bit frustrating for me as well...because you needed a decent clear stretch of road to actually get to 8400rpm!(plus the gearing with the manual version that I had is long in those as well). Now a nice 6.2 V8 C63(more torquey and lower revving)would certainly do the trick in comparison I would imagine though.
I'm not sure to be honest, I've recently gone from 320hp (which was enough really) to 550hp. As great as the car is, I do find it annoying that that power can't be used properly on the road (also with no LSD, it's quite lively in the wet)
It's nice to know it's there though. I find my self enjoying the torque and the sound at low revs.
Out of the cars I've had, I found the Up! GTi very enjoyable. great sounding 3 pot engine, but could be driven flat out, there were times when I wish it had a bit more power though.
It's nice to know it's there though. I find my self enjoying the torque and the sound at low revs.
Out of the cars I've had, I found the Up! GTi very enjoyable. great sounding 3 pot engine, but could be driven flat out, there were times when I wish it had a bit more power though.
The cliche MX5 absolutely is the answer. New 2.0l, off for a 225 tune and decent suspension. More smiles than nearly anything as it weighs a tonne. No willy-waving though. That kills it for so many phers.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
I think that some of the comments have been a little harsh against the OP, but I understand where they come from.
Its the old 'slow car fast' and appropriateness for the conditions argument though. There are situations where 500+BHP is perfectly fine, others where 150BHP is most suitable. And then you get to the car itself. It could be that the road and dynamics of the car are suitable to drive at 9/10ths, but other cars its better when at 4/10ths. I certainly have had cars where driving them at anything over 6/10th results in the dynamics completely falling apart (Audi A4 B5 being a great example). Others where getting closer to the upper limits rewards more and more.
The problem with modern generation M3/4 models is they are fantastic, but you cant get close to the upper limits where they shine until you are well above legal speeds, nevermind appropriate ones. Is that frustrating? Maybe, but depends on what you want out of it. Personally, I found my C63S frustrating some times - cant get to the upper limits of the car in any reasonable position. But equally, it could do the 4/10ths well, but the ride just didnt match driving like this. Swapped for something smoother, quieter and easier on the lower back for 90% of the driving that we do.
Its the old 'slow car fast' and appropriateness for the conditions argument though. There are situations where 500+BHP is perfectly fine, others where 150BHP is most suitable. And then you get to the car itself. It could be that the road and dynamics of the car are suitable to drive at 9/10ths, but other cars its better when at 4/10ths. I certainly have had cars where driving them at anything over 6/10th results in the dynamics completely falling apart (Audi A4 B5 being a great example). Others where getting closer to the upper limits rewards more and more.
The problem with modern generation M3/4 models is they are fantastic, but you cant get close to the upper limits where they shine until you are well above legal speeds, nevermind appropriate ones. Is that frustrating? Maybe, but depends on what you want out of it. Personally, I found my C63S frustrating some times - cant get to the upper limits of the car in any reasonable position. But equally, it could do the 4/10ths well, but the ride just didnt match driving like this. Swapped for something smoother, quieter and easier on the lower back for 90% of the driving that we do.
CABC said:
The cliche MX5 absolutely is the answer. New 2.0l, off for a 225 tune and decent suspension. More smiles than nearly anything as it weighs a tonne. No willy-waving though. That kills it for so many phers.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
Lack of seats kills it for meThat’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
s m said:
CABC said:
The cliche MX5 absolutely is the answer. New 2.0l, off for a 225 tune and decent suspension. More smiles than nearly anything as it weighs a tonne. No willy-waving though. That kills it for so many phers.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
Lack of seats kills it for meThat’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
Just gone from the M135i to a C63S and find the attitude of the car makes a big difference.
The M135i wanted to be driven fast all the time, dab of oppo on roundabouts etc etc.
The C63S is faster in every conceivable way but it is happy just bumbling along with the exhaust on enjoying the noise.
I tried the M4, it was lovely and again would be much faster than the M135i and C63S but it was very serious and wanted to go fast everywhere.
My ave speed has dropped since I picked up the C63S my MPG has fallen quite dramatically!!
The M135i wanted to be driven fast all the time, dab of oppo on roundabouts etc etc.
The C63S is faster in every conceivable way but it is happy just bumbling along with the exhaust on enjoying the noise.
I tried the M4, it was lovely and again would be much faster than the M135i and C63S but it was very serious and wanted to go fast everywhere.
My ave speed has dropped since I picked up the C63S my MPG has fallen quite dramatically!!
TameRacingDriver said:
s m said:
CABC said:
The cliche MX5 absolutely is the answer. New 2.0l, off for a 225 tune and decent suspension. More smiles than nearly anything as it weighs a tonne. No willy-waving though. That kills it for so many phers.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
Lack of seats kills it for meThat’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
s m said:
TameRacingDriver said:
s m said:
CABC said:
The cliche MX5 absolutely is the answer. New 2.0l, off for a 225 tune and decent suspension. More smiles than nearly anything as it weighs a tonne. No willy-waving though. That kills it for so many phers.
That’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
Lack of seats kills it for meThat’s such a cheap solution you can also keep a characterful V8 for the torque and soundtrack.
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