RE: Ineos shows off Grenadier interior
Discussion
Andy665 said:
Ineos can't win can they, make something that looks like the Defender and its criticised, they deliver an interior that is very different and then criticised for doing something different.
I like the interior - got the balance between form and function just about right
They are getting criticised because the execution of both interior and exterior is sI like the interior - got the balance between form and function just about right
t.Just because something is different, or doesn't look like the kind of IP rip off that even a Chinese car manufacturer would be ashamed to sell, doesn't mean it's good. There is no function to the interior. It's ridiculous faux airplane nonsense designed to sell the impression of being utilitarian.
Krikkit said:
Macboy said:
Krikkit said:
Yep agreed - the power ranger's leg of the BMW with a big rough and tough lever for the other gubbins, weird.
Presumably BMW insist that if you use their powertrains you've got to integrate that gear lever too? It appears in the Morgans too.
A new gear lever is going to be hugely expensive - £1m+ I'd bet and it'll be a testing a development nightmare when ZF/BMW will only warranty their components if it meets the OE item's specs. So, you suck it up and use the ugly/obvious BMW part. Presumably BMW insist that if you use their powertrains you've got to integrate that gear lever too? It appears in the Morgans too.
This is because selecting drive or reverse on an auto causes the vehicle to move, which could crush someone against something or result in the vehicle moving un-expectidly and causing an accident. As a result, the gear level unit will use dual channel redundant CAN and is so incorporated into the powertrain safety matrix that BMW simply won't let you replace it, because that system as a whole has had an absolute fortune in money and tens of thousands of hours of validation done on it.
Basically, as per Morgan and everyone else, you use the entire powertrain as supplied or sod off. Those are your two choices...... ;-)
The faux "aero" switch panels look terrible, imo, if those hex heads are fake then that's rubbish, and if they are real then hurray, there's about 100 additional and un-necessary fastners to rattle loose over the years, even worse!
(aeroplanes are FASTIDIOUSLY and regularily maintained, the average vehicle knocking round the dirt roads in the back of beyond isn't)
And the less said about that awful two spoke handwheel the better............
(aeroplanes are FASTIDIOUSLY and regularily maintained, the average vehicle knocking round the dirt roads in the back of beyond isn't)
And the less said about that awful two spoke handwheel the better............
Max_Torque said:
Whilst trivially easy to replace with another CAN enabled lever of your own design, you "can't" because it's rated SAFETY CRITICAL on the FMEA.
This is because selecting drive or reverse on an auto causes the vehicle to move, which could crush someone against something or result in the vehicle moving un-expectidly and causing an accident. As a result, the gear level unit will use dual channel redundant CAN and is so incorporated into the powertrain safety matrix that BMW simply won't let you replace it, because that system as a whole has had an absolute fortune in money and tens of thousands of hours of validation done on it.
Basically, as per Morgan and everyone else, you use the entire powertrain as supplied or sod off. Those are your two choices...... ;-)
Ah there we go, fresh from the horse's mouth! That's what I thought might be the issue tbf, just with little actual knowledge This is because selecting drive or reverse on an auto causes the vehicle to move, which could crush someone against something or result in the vehicle moving un-expectidly and causing an accident. As a result, the gear level unit will use dual channel redundant CAN and is so incorporated into the powertrain safety matrix that BMW simply won't let you replace it, because that system as a whole has had an absolute fortune in money and tens of thousands of hours of validation done on it.
Basically, as per Morgan and everyone else, you use the entire powertrain as supplied or sod off. Those are your two choices...... ;-)
What a shame they don't simply supply the CAN controller and allow a replacement of the buttons through a break-out board. Easy peasy to build a buttonset to a particular standard, then let the original BMW part do the controlling and logic. Not much money in it for them mind.
What do Mercedes do when they supply their powertrain to people like Aston? No random gear lever dropped in there.
Truckosaurus said:
Toot button lis a good idea, I assume it is a more 'friendly' horn noise. Not sure why it is marked with a bike, you'd be tooting pedestrians who aren't looking where they are going. Or perhaps it is for tooting your friends?
It is marketing. Ineos sponsors a pro cycling team.Like many, my attention is immediately drawn to the toot button.
Which is - if it is what I think it is - the most important automotive invention since the rubber tyre.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's some fluff-brained moron blasting a 110dB air horn down a road to say bye to her friend that she's already said bye to - or laughing as their rotten little toddler smashes it for fun in the car park, melting the eardrums of everyone within 100 yards.
They need a toot button.
Which is - if it is what I think it is - the most important automotive invention since the rubber tyre.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's some fluff-brained moron blasting a 110dB air horn down a road to say bye to her friend that she's already said bye to - or laughing as their rotten little toddler smashes it for fun in the car park, melting the eardrums of everyone within 100 yards.
They need a toot button.
Krikkit said:
What a shame they don't simply supply the CAN controller and allow a replacement of the buttons through a break-out board.
NOPE!The FMEA includes the entire system chain, from lever to microswitch to microcontroller to CAN etc
You can't change the lever, or change the switches or anything without voiding the safety case, sorry!
(the FMEA includes things like the lever jamming, or the switches jamming, or being filled with spliied coffee, going past a radar transmitter at an airport, you name it, the FMEA and validation are, i can tell you, onerous and rigerous. Its a case of use it all, absolutely unchanged, or use none of it)
Max_Torque said:
Krikkit said:
What a shame they don't simply supply the CAN controller and allow a replacement of the buttons through a break-out board.
NOPE!The FMEA includes the entire system chain, from lever to microswitch to microcontroller to CAN etc
You can't change the lever, or change the switches or anything without voiding the safety case, sorry!
(the FMEA includes things like the lever jamming, or the switches jamming, or being filled with spliied coffee, going past a radar transmitter at an airport, you name it, the FMEA and validation are, i can tell you, onerous and rigerous. Its a case of use it all, absolutely unchanged, or use none of it)
Superficially I would've thought the safety would be minimally compromised by running an intelligent "interpreter" unit which receives and validates switch inputs, then communicates with the box etc.
Max_Torque said:
NOPE!
The FMEA includes the entire system chain, from lever to microswitch to microcontroller to CAN etc
You can't change the lever, or change the switches or anything without voiding the safety case, sorry!
(the FMEA includes things like the lever jamming, or the switches jamming, or being filled with spliied coffee, going past a radar transmitter at an airport, you name it, the FMEA and validation are, i can tell you, onerous and rigerous. Its a case of use it all, absolutely unchanged, or use none of it)
Once again I learn something new from Max. Great stuffThe FMEA includes the entire system chain, from lever to microswitch to microcontroller to CAN etc
You can't change the lever, or change the switches or anything without voiding the safety case, sorry!
(the FMEA includes things like the lever jamming, or the switches jamming, or being filled with spliied coffee, going past a radar transmitter at an airport, you name it, the FMEA and validation are, i can tell you, onerous and rigerous. Its a case of use it all, absolutely unchanged, or use none of it)
Dashboard looks an unergonomic cheap mess.
It is almost RHD / LHD reversible but not really. So why not make it truly ergonomic for both sides?
Looks like warning lights in front of driver, why not speed as well. Although I did notice a HUD on top of dash which i assume would be an option.
The centre console looks a bit Argos Matsui with pointless fake Allen screws.
It is almost RHD / LHD reversible but not really. So why not make it truly ergonomic for both sides?
Looks like warning lights in front of driver, why not speed as well. Although I did notice a HUD on top of dash which i assume would be an option.
The centre console looks a bit Argos Matsui with pointless fake Allen screws.
HardtopManual said:
It is marketing. Ineos sponsors a pro cycling team.
Ineos OWNS a pro-cycling team that they rebranded to the Grenadiers to promote the car. They also own a chunk of Mercedes F1 and all of the INEOS TeamUK America's Cup sailing team. They aren't shy when it comes to cross-promotion. Check out the Belstaff jackets on the authentic utility-aware exectives in interviews. 
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