Motorway aquaplaning - an avoidable accident?
Discussion
david-j8694 said:
I was in my aquaplane spec 981 GTS on the M1 last week and the heavens opened and wouldn't relent. I slowed from the usual making progress speeds, to 60mph middle lane, then 50mph left lane, but it was no good. The rain was torrential, wipers were at full speed and barely clearing the windscreen, plus the standing water was increasing rapidly. I knew the greater risks of mid-engine + big tyres, so I crawled the remaining mile or so (at about 40mph, and being flashed by lorry drivers) to a service station and pulled over for half hour.
I felt like a bit of a wimp at the time, but I just didn't fancy being the guy who binned his Porsche for all the passers by.
Still does amaze me the speed people are happy to carry in those conditions, though
Sounds scary, well done for getting yourself off the road safely. FWD cars seem to just hoof along as if it's not raining don't they? I felt like a bit of a wimp at the time, but I just didn't fancy being the guy who binned his Porsche for all the passers by.
Still does amaze me the speed people are happy to carry in those conditions, though
My GT86 has relatively skinny tyres @215, yet I still had to slow down loads when I got caught in rain in December.
You are not a wimp.
When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are f
k all without a roll cage.
I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are f
k all without a roll cage. I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
You are not a wimp.
When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are fk all without a roll cage.
I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
Absolutely. Driving to the conditions is what’s necessary in those situations. I would have done exactly what you did. When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are f
k all without a roll cage. I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
In South Wales there’s 2 bits of the m4 where if it’s raining fairly hard you can guarantee there will be a accident
The first is junction 36 heading west bound, the road heads downhill and seems to be quite banked, the outside lane always has standing water on it, I’ve seen countless times, it’s always almost a BMW, usually a previous gen 1 series that’s clearly going to fast, hits the water and spins across the road to land on the hard shoulder, time before that (about 2 weeks) same thing, a 5 series in the barrier, time before that? A MX5.
The other one is at llandarcy, same thing, end of a 50mph speed zone and then a big bit of standing water. Always a crash there.
The first is junction 36 heading west bound, the road heads downhill and seems to be quite banked, the outside lane always has standing water on it, I’ve seen countless times, it’s always almost a BMW, usually a previous gen 1 series that’s clearly going to fast, hits the water and spins across the road to land on the hard shoulder, time before that (about 2 weeks) same thing, a 5 series in the barrier, time before that? A MX5.
The other one is at llandarcy, same thing, end of a 50mph speed zone and then a big bit of standing water. Always a crash there.
IMO the configuration of the car matters enormously.
About a year ago, I was driving out of London on the M40 - in the middle of lockdown, so the road was pretty clear. It had been raining earlier, but was not raining at the time, the road was damp not wet and I didn’t have the wipers on. I was doing about 65 (having just exited the average speed check) and saw a lorry head in the middle lane - so moved to overtake. As I drew level with the lorry, I realised there was a massive pond across the road - the lorry had just gone in, and was throwing spray. I had time to hold the steering wheel “firmly”, and then I was in it, with the wheel pulling all over the place. Worst bit was I had zero visibility - wipers not on, and what looked like an inch of water on the screen. All i could do was hold on, for what felt like 10 seconds, but was probably two.
When the screen cleared, I was still right next to the lorry, at 65. The car hadn’t moved an inch - front wheel drive Alfa 166 3.2. I suspect something with less weight on the front would have been in the barrier.
About a year ago, I was driving out of London on the M40 - in the middle of lockdown, so the road was pretty clear. It had been raining earlier, but was not raining at the time, the road was damp not wet and I didn’t have the wipers on. I was doing about 65 (having just exited the average speed check) and saw a lorry head in the middle lane - so moved to overtake. As I drew level with the lorry, I realised there was a massive pond across the road - the lorry had just gone in, and was throwing spray. I had time to hold the steering wheel “firmly”, and then I was in it, with the wheel pulling all over the place. Worst bit was I had zero visibility - wipers not on, and what looked like an inch of water on the screen. All i could do was hold on, for what felt like 10 seconds, but was probably two.
When the screen cleared, I was still right next to the lorry, at 65. The car hadn’t moved an inch - front wheel drive Alfa 166 3.2. I suspect something with less weight on the front would have been in the barrier.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
You are not a wimp.
When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are fk all without a roll cage.
I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
It is common sense as long as the person behind and the person behind them are doing the same speed or slow down quick enough to follow you. It's the right thing to do but a 'team' effort is requiredWhen it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are f
k all without a roll cage. I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
JulietRomeo said:
have had similar in a boggo 320d in sleet/snow conditions a few years back. Hardly able to keep it straight at 30mph in lane 1. Me and a lovely Supra ahead doing 30/35 tops. Whereas fwd hatches streaming past in middle and outside lanes with virgin ooh err sleet/snow to cut through
Two weeks ago I stayed over in West Yorkshire. Lots of snow. I set off in am in a rwd up 40mph dual carriageway at <10mph. I was the only person doing this speed. Not bragging at all but I've no doubt had more driver training than the lot of them but i was the one being flashed. Crackers.
Nickbrapp said:
In South Wales there’s 2 bits of the m4 where if it’s raining fairly hard you can guarantee there will be a accident
The first is junction 36 heading west bound, the road heads downhill and seems to be quite banked, the outside lane always has standing water on it, I’ve seen countless times, it’s always almost a BMW, usually a previous gen 1 series that’s clearly going to fast, hits the water and spins across the road to land on the hard shoulder, time before that (about 2 weeks) same thing, a 5 series in the barrier, time before that? A MX5.
The other one is at llandarcy, same thing, end of a 50mph speed zone and then a big bit of standing water. Always a crash there.
Agreed, that bit at Bridgend in the rain is shocking and it's usually we know there's been an accident as the sat nav off at 35 and back on at Port Talbot.The first is junction 36 heading west bound, the road heads downhill and seems to be quite banked, the outside lane always has standing water on it, I’ve seen countless times, it’s always almost a BMW, usually a previous gen 1 series that’s clearly going to fast, hits the water and spins across the road to land on the hard shoulder, time before that (about 2 weeks) same thing, a 5 series in the barrier, time before that? A MX5.
The other one is at llandarcy, same thing, end of a 50mph speed zone and then a big bit of standing water. Always a crash there.
The other poor point is Junc 15 to 14 heading uphill towards Membury - crosswind and outside lane is always flooded, or uphill eastbound just before Junc 16 Swindon, again always flooded.
DuncanM said:
Sounds scary, well done for getting yourself off the road safely. FWD cars seem to just hoof along as if it's not raining don't they?
My GT86 has relatively skinny tyres @215, yet I still had to slow down loads when I got caught in rain in December.
Yeah, and given the data from places like tyre reviews on their aquaplaning tests, and how relatively slowly you need to be going for aquaplaning to become a real possibility, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents on soaked motorways.My GT86 has relatively skinny tyres @215, yet I still had to slow down loads when I got caught in rain in December.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
You are not a wimp.
When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are fk all without a roll cage.
I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
True. It feels like blind faith with them I guess. For me, if I can't do 50mph confidently I'll just pull over. Otherwise you're just in the left lane getting drowned by passing lorries. The wiper test is a solid one too When it's that bad you'll see people who believe in their electronics and metal cage 100% driving at 70+ still.
When you've seen the aftermath of such 'bravery' it tells you that cars are f
k all without a roll cage. I've driven at 20-30 in certain conditions and especially when the wipers are being defeated. It's called..
Common sense.
Torrential conditions on the motorway in a Cayster requires 30-40mph in my opinion, even if it's quite warm. I've heard multiple stories of friends who've spun theirs on motorways.
You can understand why it happens, when most drivers have previously experienced FWD cars that happily maintain 70 in pretty much all conditions.
You can understand why it happens, when most drivers have previously experienced FWD cars that happily maintain 70 in pretty much all conditions.
Yup I'll pull over too otherwise your sensors become so overloaded that you become a passenger in the driving process and literally hang on to the wheel thinking what the he'll this is hairy but I'll keep going as I'm committed to getting home and if I stop it'll take longer. Madness.
In the days when I rode motorbikes I would always pull over somewhere safe if the rain was torrential. I think it’s a good point about the senses becoming overloaded. Once that happens it’s time to let go and rest up for a bit until the conditions are better. There’s nothing wimpy about it. It’s common sense.
Not sure if its been mentioned, but remember when Clarkson spun that BMW on top gear and blamed the car? I think thats crazy, if you're doing 120mph on a SOAKING wet road in a RWD car then its likely to swap ends.
I remember reading on here too a few years back that a guy spun his 4 series in the wet at 85mph and wondered why...
Its all about driving to the conditions in my opinion. Which i know is sometimes impossible to do as the water depth can change without being visible etc.
I remember reading on here too a few years back that a guy spun his 4 series in the wet at 85mph and wondered why...
Its all about driving to the conditions in my opinion. Which i know is sometimes impossible to do as the water depth can change without being visible etc.
I have pulled over before on to a hard shoulder or got off the motorway, Miami was an interesting one as I have never seen rain like it, but a lot of us pulled over for that as you couldn't see anything, apart from the guy who carried on at 70, and span off (predictably)
However I did learn today that those E-Scooters can also aquaplane, kid doing 30-40mph on pavement (I was doing 40 in car next to him and he was holding pace) turns out they really don't like a standing puddle at that speed, I didn't stop, one because I was laughing too hard as he slid down the grass verge in a shower of mud.
Drive to conditions, drive to what you're comfortable with, aquaplanning can still catch you out as sometimes you just can't see the water, like this video (how he kept it upright I don't know, his pants must have been so full)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19c1et
However I did learn today that those E-Scooters can also aquaplane, kid doing 30-40mph on pavement (I was doing 40 in car next to him and he was holding pace) turns out they really don't like a standing puddle at that speed, I didn't stop, one because I was laughing too hard as he slid down the grass verge in a shower of mud.
Drive to conditions, drive to what you're comfortable with, aquaplanning can still catch you out as sometimes you just can't see the water, like this video (how he kept it upright I don't know, his pants must have been so full)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19c1et
jeremyh1 said:
I have driven well over 2 million miles on the roads of Europe and the UK
I drive 100,000 miles a year in Sprinters Transits and Pug Relays
There is no excuse if you have good tread . Just slow down .
It does not matter what you are driving get below 60 and if is really bad where it gets to you not being able to see go below 40 !
If you in a nice car with your ass close to the ground your visibility is going to be even poorer .
If you aquaplane dont claim to be a good driver !
Good advice! I drive 100,000 miles a year in Sprinters Transits and Pug Relays
There is no excuse if you have good tread . Just slow down .
It does not matter what you are driving get below 60 and if is really bad where it gets to you not being able to see go below 40 !
If you in a nice car with your ass close to the ground your visibility is going to be even poorer .
If you aquaplane dont claim to be a good driver !
Edited by jeremyh1 on Monday 6th December 16:55
Edited by jeremyh1 on Monday 6th December 16:55
Edited by jeremyh1 on Monday 6th December 16:56
We were coming home on the unlit A12 from Suffolk after a NYE weekend in our 911 Turbo S Cab when the heavens opened…. It was raining to begin with so I was immensely relieved to find us in a section of 50 mph limit, policed w ASCs. Reduced the chances of being taken out by an idiot.
For several miles, we were pooling along at c 35 mph or so and luckily everyone was playing ‘follow the leader’ sensibly. No tailgating and no mad overtakes.
It was so bad I decided to pull over at the next services/filling station to fill up (we still had half a tank) so said to the wife: ‘do you mind me going soo slowly and I think we should pull over for fuel’
She replied - ‘please do!’
Some of the worst conditions and lack of visibility I have ever tried to drive in. Appallingly worn road markings which really didn’t help either.
Point of the boring story is that I bet some aquaplaned terribly - and not solely because of the conditions…..
There's an awful lot of crap being spoken about lift-off oversteer as a factor in what happens after you start to aquaplane. Slowing down as conditions worsen before you end up in bother is really the only answer.
On Motorways in the dark its not always easy to see standing water in time to be able to react, nor is it always practical to drive so slowly as to completely avoid the risk of being caught out by a sudden change in road conditons, despite what the most self-righteous smug buggers on here might claim.
A while ago I had a BMW 525d (E60) on 19" Spider Alloys with Continental Tyres on - it had a terrible tendancy to aquaplane even at moderate speeds. (I'll never have another set of Continentals on my cars after this experience.)
As a consequence I used to run the car on winter tyres for 5-6 months of the year when the weather was worst because of their better ability to disperse larger volumes of water. In fact in our family we run ALL our cars on winter tyres Nov-March and their better performance in wet conditions is one of the main reasons why.
Nokian Advice on aquaplaning
On Motorways in the dark its not always easy to see standing water in time to be able to react, nor is it always practical to drive so slowly as to completely avoid the risk of being caught out by a sudden change in road conditons, despite what the most self-righteous smug buggers on here might claim.
A while ago I had a BMW 525d (E60) on 19" Spider Alloys with Continental Tyres on - it had a terrible tendancy to aquaplane even at moderate speeds. (I'll never have another set of Continentals on my cars after this experience.)
As a consequence I used to run the car on winter tyres for 5-6 months of the year when the weather was worst because of their better ability to disperse larger volumes of water. In fact in our family we run ALL our cars on winter tyres Nov-March and their better performance in wet conditions is one of the main reasons why.
Nokian Advice on aquaplaning
Right let’s apply a bit of common sense.
The OP quoted figure of 7mm of standing water is significant. On a motorway that isn’t the odd puddle. That is a large area of standing water that to the driver would look identical to 15mm or 30mm etc (there are concrete bits of the M25 near Leatherhead that hold the water horrendously).
If you are driving at 60mph into such an area of standing water then you are driving badly and inappropriately for the conditions.
The OP quoted figure of 7mm of standing water is significant. On a motorway that isn’t the odd puddle. That is a large area of standing water that to the driver would look identical to 15mm or 30mm etc (there are concrete bits of the M25 near Leatherhead that hold the water horrendously).
If you are driving at 60mph into such an area of standing water then you are driving badly and inappropriately for the conditions.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff