RE: Toyota GR86 | PH Favourite Car of 2022

[anonymous-user]

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

[Carguy44]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

£30k isn't a lot for a new car.

[OPC100]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

Ha ha. What a load of st.

[ecsrobin]

Carguy44 said:

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

£30k isn't a lot for a new car.

And gets you a warranty and no doubt cheaper servicing than a used M3.

The 86 doesn’t appeal to me I had the opportunity to get a GT86 a few years back and decided against it and have no appeal for this one, however we all have different tastes / needs. But as someone else put if they are selling at £36k my money would be on a low mileage Yaris. If however you got one for £30k then I think you got a bargain in todays climate.

[ecsrobin]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...
if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

Just had a quick look, the Tesla roadster retailed around £90k in the UK and found one for sale at £225k so no need to store it to make some money.

Of course you probably actually mean a model S which I just don’t see making much money once the batteries die.

[spikyone]

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

As someone else said, what utter nonsense. Back in the 80s nobody had posters of 1940s cars on their bedroom wall. Nor did they have posters of Sierra Cosworths or E30 M3s, and I doubt many do today. Doesn't mean they aren't classics.
You then go on to compare it to a Tesla. Who the fk is going to have a poster of one of those on their wall? Or buy one because they enjoy driving?

You're still being a complete idiot judging its price against a used car. Cars depreciate, that's not news. Compare it to something else that's new - that's the only meaningful comparison as to whether or not it's expensive.

[leef44]

spikyone said:

LBW2020 said:

I think i need to clarify...

i like the GR86 dont get me wrong...but i cant ever see it being a classic, 40 years from now young people won't know what a rear drive N/A car is and will never have driven one, they won't be on anyones bedroom walls, and they won't care and prices will likely be very low...

if you want a classic buy a first model Tesla now...and store it ...it will be like buying that first apple computer...

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

I get the driving dynamics and even the fun of driving a low powered car on the edge .....but classic i cant see it....but i will never know as i will likely be long dead....

hopefully !

As someone else said, what utter nonsense. Back in the 80s nobody had posters of 1940s cars on their bedroom wall. Nor did they have posters of Sierra Cosworths or E30 M3s, and I doubt many do today. Doesn't mean they aren't classics.
You then go on to compare it to a Tesla. Who the fk is going to have a poster of one of those on their wall? Or buy one because they enjoy driving?

You're still being a complete idiot judging its price against a used car. Cars depreciate, that's not news. Compare it to something else that's new - that's the only meaningful comparison as to whether or not it's expensive.

I think he's trying to backtrack without saying that he's wrong but got confused with his wording.

Or I assume that is the case because he says £30k is a lot of money and the GR86 is not good looking so could not make a classic but thinks an £80k Tesla is ok and is a good looking classic.

[leef44]

MountainsofSussex said:

Conscript said:

It has the BMW style ones, which don't click and stay in position. Even when the indicators are fully enabled, the stalk always returns to centre.
It makes cancelling them a bit of a pain, because rather than just unlicking them, you have to push them in the opposite direction, which run's the risk of then activating them in the other direction.

It's not really a big issue - you get used them in within a few minutes. But it's just a bizarre design choice. They offer no practical advantage over a traditional indicator stalk that I can work out. An answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Does it work the same as the BMW and Vauxhall ones, in that if you indicate to turn right, you can cancel by indicating to turn right again? Saves the embarrassment of driving down the road indicating left and right, and also means if you've just flicked for 3 flashes and try to cancel that, at worst you do another 3 flashes rather than indicating the other way. Totally normal for my brain now, with 2 cars in the family that do this

This would confuse the hell out of me on a roundabout.

If you approach a roundabout and want to turn right then you indicate right. As you go round and approach your exit, you then indicate left to exit.

In this case you run the risk of indicator right then left then left again then right. I guess you would be better off not indicator at all, but then you'll be like the infamous BMW driver... oh wait..

[Jon_S_Rally]

LBW2020 said:

30k is a lot of money if you dont have it ....and there are lots of us that dont....

Of course it is, but a tenner is a lot of money if you don't have it, so it's a bit of a pointless statement.

It's about context and, in the context of new cars, this isn't that expensive. A Fiesta ST is £25k+, and a Golf GTI is over £35k. A Mazda MX-5 starts at about £25k too. This is priced perfectly for the market in which it sits, and the fact that people are willing to pay over the odds to secure one suggests that Toyota probably could have got away with charging more for it.

Comparisons with an old M5 are largely irrelevant, as most people buying a new car aren't going to be interested in an older BMW from a totally different segment - especially one that comes with much higher running costs.

[Flanners]

Trevor555 said:

Agree about the indicators, can't understand why Toyota/Subaru thought they were a good idea.

Other than that, love it to bits, and feel lucky to have secured one.

Thanks to Pistonheads I was an early bird order.

I think it needs the duckbill to finish it off.



And the car that started it all off, wish I'd kept hold of that one.

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 26th December 19:26

I much prefer the older Front Door.

[davyvee]

LBW2020 said:

i just think 30k for this is a lot when you can buy second hand and pick up a damn good M3...

86 would knock the spots off an M3 in everything but a drag race.

[MountainsofSussex]

leef44 said:

This would confuse the hell out of me on a roundabout.

If you approach a roundabout and want to turn right then you indicate right. As you go round and approach your exit, you then indicate left to exit.

In this case you run the risk of indicator right then left then left again then right. I guess you would be better off not indicator at all, but then you'll be like the infamous BMW driver... oh wait..

Once you've used them a few times, it's not as bad as people make out. You feel a "kickdown switch" for full on, or you flick for 3 flashes. So in your scenario, you'd "kickdown" to turn right, "kickdown" to turn left, and if it doesn't cancel automatically, as long as you don't "kickdown", you can cancel the indicator in whichever direction your brain prefers. The left-right-left-right problem only occurs for people who don't understand the feel of the kickdown, or are to ham fisted. My MiL has a mini with them, and she's the least mechanically minded person I know, and she copes just fine.
(Oh, and I guess the reason for doing it is it's just easier to engineer than having the steering column flick the indicator stalk back, or nowadays it's probably a little solenoid)

[Honeywell]

Hairymonster said:

I found 2 on autotrader which were both being flipped for a cool 10k profit.

One of them, a white one in Belfast, is now down to £36k. I could really see myself going for one of these.

How feasible, and at what sort of cost, is it to bring a GT86 up to the GR86 levels of performance/driving experience?

My GT86 has the Fensport normally aspirated treatment. The headers, exhaust and ECU remap remove the torque dip issue. It only makes 214hp but on Shell Vpower it revs to 7,700rpm very nicely. Not sure what the torque figures are.

My other two cars a Rangerover TDV8 and BMW 535d both remapped with non OEM exhausts. So I experience quite a lot of torque in my driving life. The GT86 is delicious BECAUSE you have to wring it round to banshee revs and snatch the next gear. Its frenetic. That's the point. Its a feature not a failure. Its also the most tail happy car I've ever owned and with the stability control in sport mode it's perfectly judged for giving you a tab of opposite lock moments with giving you in the hedge moments.

I also quite dig the whole Japanese tuning scene and the Toyota reliability aspect. You can endlessly tinker with new parts but the thing always starts and servicing is cheap. My 60,000 mile service at Toyota was the big one with new spark plugs and all the works and it was £499 inc VAT. its a fraction of the price of running a Cayman with full factory service history.

The GR86 is a nailed on classic because it's desirable to the sort of people who are into classic cars plus it's rare. That's all it needs. Nobody has posters on bedroom walls nowadays, that's irrelevant. Its more about the forums and the YouTube reviews.

It looks to me that I'm going to have to cancel my Emira order next year and spend half the money on either a GR Yaris or GR86 as sadly my industry still hasn't recovered from Covid lockdowns. Can't justify the £70k plus road tax cost of a Lotus when two incredibly good alternatives for a third hooning car exist from Toyota.

Edited by Honeywell on Tuesday 27th December 09:49

[spikyone]

Honeywell said:

Hairymonster said:

I found 2 on autotrader which were both being flipped for a cool 10k profit.

One of them, a white one in Belfast, is now down to £36k. I could really see myself going for one of these.

How feasible, and at what sort of cost, is it to bring a GT86 up to the GR86 levels of performance/driving experience?

My GT86 has the Fensport normally aspirated treatment. The headers, exhaust and ECU remap remove the torque dip issue. It only makes 214hp but on Shell Vpower it revs to 7,700rpm very nicely. Not sure what the torque figures are.

My other two cars a Rangerover TDV8 and BMW 535d both remapped with non OEM exhausts. So I experience quite a lot of torque in my driving life. The GT86 is delicious BECAUSE you have to wring it round to banshee revs and snatch the next gear. Its frenetic. That's the point. Its a feature not a failure. Its also the most tail happy car I've ever owned and with the stability control in sport mode it's perfectly judged for giving you a tab of opposite lock moments with giving you in the hedge moments.

I also quite dig the whole Japanese tuning scene and the Toyota reliability aspect. You can endlessly tinker with new parts but the thing always starts and servicing is cheap. My 60,000 mile service at Toyota was the big one with new spark plugs and all the works and it was £499 inc VAT. its a fraction of the price of running a Cayman with full factory service history.

The GR86 is a nailed on classic because it's desirable to the sort of people who are into classic cars plus it's rare. That's all it needs. Nobody has posters on bedroom walls nowadays, that's irrelevant. Its more about the forums and the YouTube reviews.

It looks to me that I'm going to have to cancel my Emira order next year and spend half the money on either a GR Yaris or GR86 as sadly my industry still has recovered from Covid lockdowns. Can't justify the £70k plus road tax cost of a Lotus when two incredibly good alternatives for a third hooning car exist from Toyota.

Great post. To add to the "what mods would make it a GR86 equivalent", nothing short of forced induction will get anywhere near the claimed 240bhp - 214bhp from yours is right at the top of what you'd expect from NA tuning.

Given the choice of modifying a GT86 to match a GR86, or just straight-up buying the GR86, I think the GR86 is a no-brainer. I don't even want to write down how much I've spent on modifying my GT86! IMO the only thing that's worse on the new version is the styling, the front looks narrower and taller because of the grille & lights, and the rear lights look like a Vectra. Other than that I get the impression that the GR86 is better in every way.

The Emira is just about the only thing that would persuade me to sell my 86, fingers crossed for you that you don't have to cancel that order.

[Trevor555]

Flanners said:

Trevor555 said:

Agree about the indicators, can't understand why Toyota/Subaru thought they were a good idea.

Other than that, love it to bits, and feel lucky to have secured one.

Thanks to Pistonheads I was an early bird order.

I think it needs the duckbill to finish it off.



And the car that started it all off, wish I'd kept hold of that one.

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 26th December 19:26

I much prefer the older Front Door.

Haha, +1

Think my dad got some sort of deal on it.

But at least it matches the car.

[mackie1]

Pistonheads: Porches Matter

[CedricN]

To get closer to a gr86 engine wise you would need e85, ex manifolds and a tune. Ethanol is the only was to boost torque everywhere (you guys don't have it though), otherwise a Supercharger is needed. But with some noise mods the regular 86 engine is pretty decent. Torquier than any other 2.0n/a engines, and revs ok.

Though this year my extended warranty ends, which isnt nice with these engines tendency of oiling issues. I really hope the new engine will be better on that point, the data ive seen seems to indicate that the lubrication system is better, apart from the classical silicon in the oil Pickup thing. I wish the engine would have been Toyotas responsibility in this Project instead of Subaru, which has a long history of making some terrible engine mistakes.

[1Nathan]

satfinal said:

Toyota really fked up the launch and sale of this car imo

So much for the everyman sportscar

Of all the ridiculous comments on PH this one takes the cake.

Suggesting that a manufacturer messed up the launch of a car when it sold the entire production run in 90 minutes without so much as a test drive is a pretty wild claim.

It’s literally the exact opposite of screwing it up.

[Simon Owen]

spikyone said:

Honeywell said:

Hairymonster said:

I found 2 on autotrader which were both being flipped for a cool 10k profit.

One of them, a white one in Belfast, is now down to £36k. I could really see myself going for one of these.

How feasible, and at what sort of cost, is it to bring a GT86 up to the GR86 levels of performance/driving experience?

My GT86 has the Fensport normally aspirated treatment. The headers, exhaust and ECU remap remove the torque dip issue. It only makes 214hp but on Shell Vpower it revs to 7,700rpm very nicely. Not sure what the torque figures are.

My other two cars a Rangerover TDV8 and BMW 535d both remapped with non OEM exhausts. So I experience quite a lot of torque in my driving life. The GT86 is delicious BECAUSE you have to wring it round to banshee revs and snatch the next gear. Its frenetic. That's the point. Its a feature not a failure. Its also the most tail happy car I've ever owned and with the stability control in sport mode it's perfectly judged for giving you a tab of opposite lock moments with giving you in the hedge moments.

I also quite dig the whole Japanese tuning scene and the Toyota reliability aspect. You can endlessly tinker with new parts but the thing always starts and servicing is cheap. My 60,000 mile service at Toyota was the big one with new spark plugs and all the works and it was £499 inc VAT. its a fraction of the price of running a Cayman with full factory service history.

The GR86 is a nailed on classic because it's desirable to the sort of people who are into classic cars plus it's rare. That's all it needs. Nobody has posters on bedroom walls nowadays, that's irrelevant. Its more about the forums and the YouTube reviews.

It looks to me that I'm going to have to cancel my Emira order next year and spend half the money on either a GR Yaris or GR86 as sadly my industry still has recovered from Covid lockdowns. Can't justify the £70k plus road tax cost of a Lotus when two incredibly good alternatives for a third hooning car exist from Toyota.

Great post. To add to the "what mods would make it a GR86 equivalent", nothing short of forced induction will get anywhere near the claimed 240bhp - 214bhp from yours is right at the top of what you'd expect from NA tuning.

Given the choice of modifying a GT86 to match a GR86, or just straight-up buying the GR86, I think the GR86 is a no-brainer. I don't even want to write down how much I've spent on modifying my GT86! IMO the only thing that's worse on the new version is the styling, the front looks narrower and taller because of the grille & lights, and the rear lights look like a Vectra. Other than that I get the impression that the GR86 is better in every way.

The Emira is just about the only thing that would persuade me to sell my 86, fingers crossed for you that you don't have to cancel that order.

In answer to the question “how much” we were c£5k all in on our GT86, we went low mileage used base car so significant under £30k all in for a super reliable package. Dynamically with springs, dampers & subtle geo tweaks (NOT slammed) the chassis was sublime, and the way the thing changed direction down a uk b road was jaw dropping. Back to back with far more exotic machinery I never felt short changed.

Engine work wasn’t so successful in my eyes, yes torque dip removed (see below) but it still sounded coarse and a bit ‘asmatic’ compared to a good NA free reving 4 pot. We ran next to a BBR nd mx5 and the engine in the 86 felt poor compared to the sky active Mazda unit. Chassis in the Toyota however was in a different universe, the steering in particular a true stand out feature compared to the nd.

We had some of the best individual drives I have ever had in the 86, in any car at any price, but eventually the engine got to me and we ‘upgraded’ to an A110.

Torque dip removal details below:



Had the GR86 been available for a back to back test drive with the A110 I’m not sure what the outcome would have been ?

Edited by Simon Owen on Tuesday 27th December 11:42

[someday]

Due to pick mine up on the 4th. Thanks to this thread I now realise my best course of action for a respectable daily driver is to immediately swap it for a 1984 Ferrari Mondial