RE: 2023 INEOS Grenadier | PH Review
Discussion
JOB2.5-16 said:
Surely the same for commercial spec Defender, Disco 4 and even the likes of a Fiesta Van - all VAT reclaimable?
Those are all 2 seat commercials, Car Derived Vans, the Grenadier is a Dual Purpose Vehicle like a 4wd pick-uphttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-der...
I quite like it. Some of the styling is a bit iffy (the tail lights look like they were bought from AliExpress and it looks like someone's ripped the lower door trims off) but love the interior. It looks too posh/sophisticated for a rugged utility vehicle but not posh enough for the premium SUV crowd. A lot of money, but cars are expensive these days and if VW can sell a s
tbox EV at 50 grand plus then it starts to look reasonable....
tbox EV at 50 grand plus then it starts to look reasonable....Reviews all seem to be pretty mediocre, which is a shame. I think its a cool concept, but at its price point it's not got a chance. I can see many wealthy individuals walking past a defender to this, then they drive it and go straight back to the defender 
. Its a utilitarian car at a luxury SUV price point and as such it has to be very good to even stand a chance in a crowded marketplace.
. Its a utilitarian car at a luxury SUV price point and as such it has to be very good to even stand a chance in a crowded marketplace. It looks great! I like the fact that it has made it this far. Wierdly I don't think it is silly money for a modern take on old school charm. Just look at what LR charges for their cars now...I will go and look at one but they may have to up their creature comforts and interior 'feel' to get me to be more interested. That is what they had to do with the G Wagon and I don't see why INEOS can't offer that level of 'feel' . It's never about the speed but that MPG is disappointing. I almost want it to do everything as well as my Range Rover but look like that. Does that make sense? Now I'd pay for that!
JOB2.5-16 said:
Pflanzgarten said:
malaccamax said:
Pflanzgarten said:
skidskid said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Timely.
Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Surely this means the whole point of the vehicle is gone? A car sold one being a utility tool that doesn't have the key business and company car advantages. Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
But to sell one as a commercial as they are doing?
It's nothing more than negotiating around the euro rules on emissions. Fine, who doesn't love someone getting around pointless rules?
But the sales teams are making out that business users can use one as they had done twin cab pick ups-it looks like you can't.
Plus in the UK as it's N1 class you need to do 50mph on country roads.
I actually like the interior. Big buttons and switches. You can see it's been designed with people wearing gloves in extreme conditions.
Refreshing after every other manufacturer is using horrible IPads.
Love the switches on the roof too. Very airplane vibes.
I'm sure it'll sell very well around the world. I personally wouldn't buy one, but then again it's not aimed at me. I'm sure there will be a fair few in and round London. Although maybe it's too cheap for that kind of clientele?
Refreshing after every other manufacturer is using horrible IPads.
Love the switches on the roof too. Very airplane vibes.
I'm sure it'll sell very well around the world. I personally wouldn't buy one, but then again it's not aimed at me. I'm sure there will be a fair few in and round London. Although maybe it's too cheap for that kind of clientele?
In the Sunday Times Rich List 2018, he was named as the richest man in the UK, with a net worth of £21.05 billion. So losing £1.5B on this folly will not be a loss to him. As billionaire Brexit supporter and Britain's richest man, he announced that his company will build its new Grenadier cars in France after previously promising to build them in Wales. Today, we can see his claims are as hollow as his Brexit promises. So Brexit not good for the UK automotive industry - not what this man was saying 6 years ago.
Wab1974uk said:
I actually like the interior. Big buttons and switches. You can see it's been designed with people wearing gloves in extreme conditions.
Refreshing after every other manufacturer is using horrible IPads.
Love the switches on the roof too. Very airplane vibes.
I'm sure it'll sell very well around the world. I personally wouldn't buy one, but then again it's not aimed at me. I'm sure there will be a fair few in and round London. Although maybe it's too cheap for that kind of clientele?
Switches in the roof are super coolRefreshing after every other manufacturer is using horrible IPads.
Love the switches on the roof too. Very airplane vibes.
I'm sure it'll sell very well around the world. I personally wouldn't buy one, but then again it's not aimed at me. I'm sure there will be a fair few in and round London. Although maybe it's too cheap for that kind of clientele?
I can't get too excited about the rest of it, but i'm not the target market so i'll shut my mouth and wish Ineos well
"But the first part of the road route in Scotland definitely constitutes a jump to the dynamic deep end – 70 miles of one of the most rugged and isolated stretches of the North Coast 500, following the A836 west from the Castle of Mey to the shore of Loch Eribol"
I did that in a Ferrari 456!.
I did that in a Ferrari 456!.
GianiCakes said:
I was on Safari for the first time last year and it was a true eye opener as to what an original Defender can really do. They got that thing into, over and out of stuff I couldn’t believe, with 8 people riding on top. Our guide had recently been on an introduction to the new Defender and was seriously impressed with its off road ability. Made me feel better about my still delayed order, although of course I will never use a fraction of that ability.
Interestingly he had also just been to an introduction of the Grenadier which they had organized to pitch it to the Safari operators. He pointed out that mounting all those controls on the roof made the Safari conversation much more difficult and that it was unlikely to be used for that reason. Now I’m sure the Safari market isn’t a huge one in itself but it does play a big role in giving credibility to such a vehicle.
This still feels like a massive vanity project to me without real thought as to what actual users of such a rugged vehicle might want; low entry price, a flexible platform and easy to fix being high on that list.
I've had a similar experience, been on Safaris in Defenders and been amazed by their true capabilities (including feeling like we'd be washed away in a fast flowing river). Talking to the rangers, they were fairly evenly split on those who prefer defenders and those who prefer land cruisers. As you say, safari is a small market but does highlight some of the design choices. Will be interesting to see how many start to appear, I live in the alps and there are a lot of 4x4s around here (mostly pick-ups) but quite a few defenders too (new and old), intrigued to see the first Grenadier.Interestingly he had also just been to an introduction of the Grenadier which they had organized to pitch it to the Safari operators. He pointed out that mounting all those controls on the roof made the Safari conversation much more difficult and that it was unlikely to be used for that reason. Now I’m sure the Safari market isn’t a huge one in itself but it does play a big role in giving credibility to such a vehicle.
This still feels like a massive vanity project to me without real thought as to what actual users of such a rugged vehicle might want; low entry price, a flexible platform and easy to fix being high on that list.
Pflanzgarten said:
Timely.
Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Basically it’s a swizz for them to get around emissions regulations and means any buyer will be tied down to lower speed limits in the U.K.
Anyone buying via a company in the U.K. can expect a nasty surprise from HMRC if they think this is their new twin cab pick up.
If that's true that'll catch quite a few people out on Dual Carriageways. Was about to deposit on one today. Learnt last night that the advertised commercial N1 class it’s got doesn’t mean you can use it as a commercial.
Can’t claim VAT back, can’t use it as a BIK free commercial vehicle.
Basically it’s a swizz for them to get around emissions regulations and means any buyer will be tied down to lower speed limits in the U.K.
Anyone buying via a company in the U.K. can expect a nasty surprise from HMRC if they think this is their new twin cab pick up.
_Neal_ said:
ChevronB19 said:
Honeywell said:
Not sure what all this Brexiteer angst is about. When asked a majority of folk actually were... plus the typical Greandier customer is likely to be an over 35 male with either a petrolhead or practical bent NOT some public sector university lecturing female or twenty something soiboi.
Guess what. Not all remainers were/are ‘public sector university lecturering females or twenty something soibois’ (whatever a soiboi is).That notwithstanding enjoy yours (but at least spell the model name right)
All that said, I like the product and wish it every success, think it strikes the right balance between classic styling and modern performance.
FWIW I wouldn't spend my money on it, as I'm not a Jim Ratcliffe fan (or a James Dyson fan) - not because they backed Brexit, which is a personal choice, but because they are hypocrites who banged on about the freedoms etc that Brexit would bring, then promptly left the UK for tax reasons. They should cop some flak for that. I don't think the car "has a whiff of Brexit" though - that's overstating it hugely and most people won't care, even if they know the back story.
ChevronB19 said:
Guess what. Not all remainers were/are ‘public sector university lecturering females or twenty something soibois’ (whatever a soiboi is).
That notwithstanding enjoy yours (but at least spell the model name right)
Not all were. But all of the above did vote Remain and still aren't over it.That notwithstanding enjoy yours (but at least spell the model name right)
BTW: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=so...
easytiger123 said:
I've ordered one and I have 3 friends who also each have one on order. Normal middle-class people who see something like this as a slower, much less expensive alternative to a G63 (not much change from £200k for a new one with a couple of extras). Quirky, good-looking to many people's eyes, a bit different, a bit of fun, hack it around for a few years and you won't lose a fortune when it's time to sell it. I couldn't give a flying fk about the negatives. Can't wait to take delivery. My only slight reservation is the lack of any substantial dealer and service network in and around London.
That's a very narrow field of view. So they'll sell a few hundred to wealthy Londoners. k about the negatives. Can't wait to take delivery. My only slight reservation is the lack of any substantial dealer and service network in and around London. It needs to be a lot more than a bit of fun.
I do hope it's a success but it'll be interesting to see if he does get his €1.5bn and counting back.
Condi said:
Just somewhat amusing that someone who was so pro brexit has manufactured a car designed in Austria and built in France using German made engines, don't you think?
No. Its only bigoted remainers that insist that the argument for not being a member of the EU (an all white club of 27 nations based on geography) was founded on xenophobia or some belief in British superiority. This country was a pioneer of global trade. Adam Smith invented the concept of specialisation. It makes infinite sense to any Brexiteer to use the best available spare factory that happens to be in France and the best globally distributed engine that happens to be made by BMW and to employ the most experienced and readily available engineering team that happens to be Austrian to build a vehicle financed, designed, marketed and distributed from Britain.There's no dogma. This is a globalised world and we do the bits we are good at and let others do the bits they are good at. Everyone wins. Except Brussels Civil Servants...
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