Touchscreens now make sense, bye physical buttons...
Discussion
ATG said:
Having buttons and switches doesn't conflict with automatic adjustment nor does a temperature control button or dial require your eyesight. For example, temp up/down buttons could trigger audible feedback; either voice or just varying the pitch of a tone.
That's all true. But once you have smart automated adjustment doing 90% of the work, why not at that point lose the physical controls? If audible feedback is suitable to provide confirmation of a touch control position, what's wrong with just a spoken command to carry out the same process?
TheDeuce said:
I can believe some tasks take longer and are more distracting using the touchscreen, but as always that's not the full picture.
As is smart functionality which increasingly negates the need for manual operation in the first place.
I think this is the point. Surely it's safer to not be cocking around with any unnecessary controls regardless of whether they're buttons or not. I'm always a little baffled in the age of climate control you need to be messing with your heater settings every 5 minutes, likewise moving you're mirrors/seat about or farting about with the radio. I was always taught that's what you do before you set off. As is smart functionality which increasingly negates the need for manual operation in the first place.
Where it's gone a little bit too far is lights/wiper controls (and I say that as a Tesla owner) but this can be mitigated with reliable automated functions.
As an example, on my Model 3 the only thing I had to do on a touchscreen this morning was to input a destination the sat nav. I didn't have to touch it again until I'd arrived.
TheDeuce said:
I can believe some tasks take longer and are more distracting using the touchscreen, but as always that's not the full picture.
Moving the heated seat control out of the physical world and into software in my car has indeed made it less easy to click on or off - but it's also allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust,
No it hasn't "allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust". That is purely implementation. Moving the heated seat control out of the physical world and into software in my car has indeed made it less easy to click on or off - but it's also allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust,
Now mine doesn't have an "automatically adjusted heated seat" but it does have heated screens. With a physical button for front and back and a light (in the button) to say its active.
If it's colder than (IIRC) 4 degrees, or I hit the "MAX" button then the screen comes on and the light also comes on. After a certain time...it turns off.
So this is something the car can automatically do/adjust without any screens being required at all.
While my heated seats are purely "manual" fundamentally there is nothing stopping them being exactly as "automated" as the heated screens. The button does nothing more than tell "the computer" to turn it up/down and "the computer" tells the little display on the switch how many bars to display as well as PWM power to the seat itself. Nothing there **requires** a touchscreen interface beyond if there is some additional clever automation then ease of configuring it[1].
[1] Even then you could have some very advanced logic that doesn't require a screen of any type....but then you're into some arcane button pressing exercise to set things and a screen 1000% makes things easier there.
I have just moved to varifocal glasses and have to move my head to do anything touchscreen related (rather than just glance left with just eyes).
I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
pherlopolus said:
I have just moved to varifocal glasses and have to move my head to do anything touchscreen related (rather than just glance left with just eyes).
I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
Or buy a new car which doesn't have such a terrible sounding implementation of the tech?I have buttons for the heated seats, but it does stuff on the screen as well which is stupid! I also now don't have a dedicated button to take me back to car play, and have to use the touchscreen!
Using muscle memory to find buttons is much more efficient.
I think my current Skoda will be my last new car
My Volvo has a weird mix of buttons and touchscreen. Heated front or rear screens are on proper buttons. Heated seats, steering wheel and climate controls are on the touch screen. I can voice control the temperature, but not the seats or wheel so it's a right muddle. Plus as another poster mentioned, who wants to be using voice control in a car full of people? "Can everyone be quiet please, I want to turn the temperature down". 
The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.
The screen is fine for stuff that's not used very often like lighting modes and other settings, but I would much rather have proper buttons for regularly used items.
TheDeuce said:
I can believe some tasks take longer and are more distracting using the touchscreen, but as always that's not the full picture.
Moving the heated seat control out of the physical world and into software in my car has indeed made it less easy to click on or off - but it's also allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust, and that's actually proven to be very useful and is well implemented.
If it takes me three times longer to adjust the settings on the touchscreen, but I only need to make a manual adjustment one drive in twenty, am I not saving time and being distracted less overall?
I dint know why you post reports concerning the dangers of screens and then go on to advocate buttons over voice control. If I say "hey [car name] turn on the heated seat", I haven't taken my hands of the wheel or my eyes off the road. Back when I had a physical button I did have to move my hand and at least glance at the button to confirm I had pressed it enough times to set the desired heating power.
I do think that some manufacturers are morons in terms of how they have implemented certain features, and I'm not going defend anyone who puts frequently afldjusted settings behind layers of touchscreen menus. But lessons are being learned and implemention of such things is subsequently improving. As is smart functionality which increasingly negates the need for manual operation in the first place.
I don't advocate voice control if I say they are plasters over poor UI, they are just exactly that a plaster which need not be there if buttons were still there. Moving a hand is less distracting than processing what you want to say, similar to having been on hands free where it has been proven to still be very distracting even post finishing the call. Automatic adjustment is useful but it simply won't be prepared for every situation, oh look we have to dive multiple menus down.Moving the heated seat control out of the physical world and into software in my car has indeed made it less easy to click on or off - but it's also allowed it become something the car can automatically adjust, and that's actually proven to be very useful and is well implemented.
If it takes me three times longer to adjust the settings on the touchscreen, but I only need to make a manual adjustment one drive in twenty, am I not saving time and being distracted less overall?
I dint know why you post reports concerning the dangers of screens and then go on to advocate buttons over voice control. If I say "hey [car name] turn on the heated seat", I haven't taken my hands of the wheel or my eyes off the road. Back when I had a physical button I did have to move my hand and at least glance at the button to confirm I had pressed it enough times to set the desired heating power.
I do think that some manufacturers are morons in terms of how they have implemented certain features, and I'm not going defend anyone who puts frequently afldjusted settings behind layers of touchscreen menus. But lessons are being learned and implemention of such things is subsequently improving. As is smart functionality which increasingly negates the need for manual operation in the first place.
Lessons are being learnt? These systems should be tested and fully approved when someone is driving at any speed in any traffic situation! I have worked with enough developers that have no clue what the end user does until the end user points out the issues, so how can multiple teams spending millions get that wrong and not fundamentally have fully tested it on normal end users.
Moron movements don't just include simple things either, BMW should be shot for the distance control for cruise control setting now being buried 3 or 4 menus down that is unforgivable.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 5th December 11:57
Physical buttons are going, whether we like it or not.
But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
dan98 said:
Physical buttons are going, whether we like it or not.
But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
Car play / android auto is that solution.But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
However, it's early days and not all new cars support either/both and those that do, don't all integrate them in an ideal way.
dan98 said:
Physical buttons are going, whether we like it or not.
But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
Not really Skoda has recently done adverts about bringing their smart dials in, Aston Martin with the DB12 kept a number of buttons (having driven one it works well) and Hyundai with Tucson facelift have brought buttons back. But why can an iPad be so intuitive and straightforward for even an elderly person to pick up and start using straight away, while trying to get around something like an ID3 be so completely baffling?
It's all very well spending a few weeks getting to know your car's operating system, but many people jump in and out of different cars all the time, and it gets to a point where it's a safety hazard.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
Even VW are back to putting some buttons in their models after complaints.
The problem fundamentally drills down to the fact that with an iPad we are not focusing on anything else we can concentrate on that and that alone with minimal distractions. Oddly, driving a car means our focus is on driving the car not trying to navigate 3 menus because we don't know where X feature is.
Not one menu design will be used as most manufacturers are spending millions developing their own, you could adopt the simple step of having Apple Carplay or Android Auto like Ferrari have done on the Purosangue, but that might be a step to far for many manufacturers.
dan98 said:
Physical buttons are going, whether we like it or not.
They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
You can feel along for physical buttons whilst driving and keeping your eyes on the road, but finding a particular co-ordinate to click on a large rectangular surface isn't possible for most people. They need to sort this mess out - perhaps by adpoting some kind of universal menu layout across brands that's as intuitive as the system whicih everyone is already used to via their phones / tablets.
The core controls need to remain physical for safety.
vikingaero said:
We are an ageing population and you'll find that as you age, your digits will become far less responsive to touch inputs.
True, but already so much can be achieved very easily with voice control that I don't think we're going to find ourselves reliant on using a touchscreen in the future.My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
TheDeuce said:
...My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
What do you find most essential and useful, and how big is your home? As the average UK home is small enough to be able to get up and walk a few steps. Last thing you want is to give any obese people even less reasons to move!
JimJobs81 said:
TheDeuce said:
...My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
What do you find most essential and useful, and how big is your home? As the average UK home is small enough to be able to get up and walk a few steps. Last thing you want is to give any obese people even less reasons to move!
Obviously control of media and music around the house
As I'm driving home I can turn on the oven to heat up, boil the kettle, turn the underfloor heating on..
I can put the house into holiday mode, whereby it will appear lived in whilst we're away
I can make diary appointments, call people, ask for answers to questions, water the plants, send nav instructions to the car.. this spring it will even have the ability to cut the grass, wherever I am in the world.
TheDeuce said:
True, but already so much can be achieved very easily with voice control that I don't think we're going to find ourselves reliant on using a touchscreen in the future.
My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
The issue for me is that I've not used any voice control system at home or in any car that works more than 80% of the time. I am from the Northeast but I'm definitely not broad or hard to understand and yet, even if I slow down and pronounce everything perfectly, they still don't work. My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
"Alexa, what is the best setup for pistols in Modern Warfare 3" ---> "The best skip for modern workmen is Samson Containers".
"Hey Siri, open Spotify" ---> OK, playing organ music from Spotify.
BMW "Navigate to Northumberland Street, Newcastle" ---> OK Navigating to Northampton... FFS!!!
toon10 said:
TheDeuce said:
True, but already so much can be achieved very easily with voice control that I don't think we're going to find ourselves reliant on using a touchscreen in the future.
My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
The issue for me is that I've not used any voice control system at home or in any car that works more than 80% of the time. I am from the Northeast but I'm definitely not broad or hard to understand and yet, even if I slow down and pronounce everything perfectly, they still don't work. My entire house is automated via Google home, I control pretty much everything by voice.
"Alexa, what is the best setup for pistols in Modern Warfare 3" ---> "The best skip for modern workmen is Samson Containers".
"Hey Siri, open Spotify" ---> OK, playing organ music from Spotify.
BMW "Navigate to Northumberland Street, Newcastle" ---> OK Navigating to Northampton... FFS!!!
But for very basic instructions 'turn on drivers seat heater' either can understand more than reliably enough.
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