RE: Can Riley revive MG and TVR?
Discussion
AL666 said:
Unless there's supposed to be some relationship happening between the Rileys and Nanjing, I don't see how Riley can start making TFs, as Nanjing are doing it pretty soon, or now. Starting production of the SV again will be nice because it was a great car; had everything going for it apart from price... I don't think they've got much chance of starting a prosperous production-car company and calling it Riley these days, not because of BL ruining their status, but (no offense to the guy's name) it's not a very interesting name. People are superficial and don't like names that aren't interesting or don't have something going for them; Lexus is hardly a fair example of a startup company that did well, their only selling point was that they were Toyotas that were supposed to be as luxurious as Mercedes, they got recognition and made really good cars and here they are today...
Why all the talk of them starting to make TFs? The article does not state this. Nanjing and Stdco are restarting TF production at Longbridge some time soon. The Riley/MG idea seems to revolve around the SV, a rather different animal.....
JonRB said:
scoobiewrx said:
I used to have a Riley Elf [...] even if it was just a mini with a sticky out boot
And that is the only experience anyone of my generation has of the Riley name.
Hmmm, I can distinctly remember one balmy afternoon in Spring at the finish line of the Tulip Rallye in 2000 with Erik Carlsson (who proceeded to give every equipe arriving a copy of his own biography 'Mr. Saab' and get a bit close and personal with all the lady drivers/navigators in his own uninitable style, but I disgress) when a 1936 Riley (of which the model name escapes me now, it did look rather sporty) ran by an all-female crew approached. The younger of the two was a bit of a stunner... So there you have it - my association with the Riley brand...
900T-R said:
BMW and the dealer are only happy because they made the 'best' of an undesirable situation (having a car on the lot that no one ordered). If they sold all cars at a similar discount because no one asked fot that exact car the moment it was built, they'd be bust before you could say 'Oktoberfest'. 
Rubbish. BMWs Nett margins are second only to Porsche's. If the car only cost them £25k to make, and sold it at £40k rather than the list price of £45k they still make a profit. What makes you think BMW run on anything less than 40%GM on list price? You have to just look at their annual accounts to see a EBIT of nearly 10% of revenue. Compare that to Tesco's of 5.7% and there is no way you can tell me discounting 10% off a car as business as usual isn't in their plans.
J
Spyker name has been revived and they stopped production a long time ago. The film Genevieve with the Spyker in the staring role is probably the only means that people are aware of this make in the past. Curiously enough Riley used to have a round radiator like Spyker until they moved to the familar grill.
Their motorsport heritage and twin cam engines were legendary sporning ERA and postwar the Healey Silverstone. They also tried to create a brand called Autovia that had a V8 to compete with Rolls etc. Sadly it help bankrupt them and they were taken over by Morris Motors and then moved Abingdon.
My father, Christopher Milner, was Sales Manager at BMC for Riley in the 60s and tried very hard to keep the make different and alive.
Anything can resurrected and Skoda, Mini, Bugatti, Spyker are all examples of how gullable we all are to marketing and advertising when what is being offered has nothing to do with past products.
Cranhills seems to have no website.
Their motorsport heritage and twin cam engines were legendary sporning ERA and postwar the Healey Silverstone. They also tried to create a brand called Autovia that had a V8 to compete with Rolls etc. Sadly it help bankrupt them and they were taken over by Morris Motors and then moved Abingdon.
My father, Christopher Milner, was Sales Manager at BMC for Riley in the 60s and tried very hard to keep the make different and alive.
Anything can resurrected and Skoda, Mini, Bugatti, Spyker are all examples of how gullable we all are to marketing and advertising when what is being offered has nothing to do with past products.
Cranhills seems to have no website.
I've got a different view of riley in that my dad is into pre-war cars so we have a riley special sitting in the garage which is extremely noisy, stinks of petrol spits flames on overrun and seems to be very quick (probably isnt but feels it!!) to me riley's mean riley brooklands, blue streak specials etc, and the basis of the ERA engine.
so if they make a noisy, fast and flame spitting car thats ok with me!!!!
so if they make a noisy, fast and flame spitting car thats ok with me!!!!
joust said:
900T-R said:
BMW and the dealer are only happy because they made the 'best' of an undesirable situation (having a car on the lot that no one ordered). If they sold all cars at a similar discount because no one asked fot that exact car the moment it was built, they'd be bust before you could say 'Oktoberfest'.
Rubbish. BMWs Nett margins are second only to Porsche's. If the car only cost them £25k to make, and sold it at £40k rather than the list price of £45k they still make a profit. What makes you think BMW run on anything less than 40%GM on list price? You have to just look at their annual accounts to see a EBIT of nearly 10% of revenue. Compare that to Tesco's of 5.7% and there is no way you can tell me discounting 10% off a car as business as usual isn't in their plans.
J
I don't know where you have those figures from, but even BMWs margins on CARS are nowhere near that. Fortunately for car manufacturers, they also are in the parts aftermarket, finance, leasing, real estate et cetera.
Apart from that, you're missing the point entirely. Even if you're making a handy profit, you're not in business not to maximise profits. And even if the manufacturer can get away with overproduction/not producing the right car at the right time for the right market, it's only because they have a stranglehold on their dealer franchises.
The scenario is the same everywhere: you're a dealer, having invested lots of money in 'dealer standards (glass building on A1 location near motorway, £30,000 for approved furniture, £40,000 for approved signposting, approved bog rolls that are three times as expensive as the ones you get from Tescos around the corner yadda yadda) to get/retain your franchise. One morning a trailer stops by and proceeds to offload ten new cars you haven't ordered. Oh, you've already paid for them too - they're debited from your dealer finance account the moment they got on the trailer. That's what's behind the advertisements in your local paper that start with "We've managed to secure ten XXXXs in the special limited XYZ edition especially for you."
ndj said:
Rubbish. Pricewaterhousecoopers don't own the MG brand. The Chinese (NAC-MG) do.
even if the article is not clear, due to the car they are talking about, i think it could be "MG sport..." they they could buy from pricewater.
MG sport division was separated from MG and had no buyer, so i think the rights to the SVR and probably the name MG Sport racing or something like that could still be available.
A fitting spot of dialog from a classic Richard E Grant film that pretty much sums up this press release:
Businessman 1: (reading the newspaper) One discovered naked in the kitchen...breasts smeared with peanut butter. The police took away a bag containing 15 grams of cannabis resin... it may also contain a quantity of heroin.
Bagley: Or a pork pie.
Businessman 1: I beg your pardon.
Bagley: I said the bag may also have contained a pork pie.
Businessman 1: I hardly see a pork pie's got anything to do with it.
Bagley: Alright then, what about a large turnip. It might also have contained a big turnip.
Priest: The bag was full of drugs.
Bagley: Nonsense.
Priest: The bag was full of drugs, it says so.
Bagley: The bag could've been full of anything. Pork pies, turnips, oven parts... it's the oldest trick in the book.
Priest: What book?
Bagley: The distortion of truth by association book. The word is "may." You all believe heroin was in the bag because cannabis resin was in the bag. The bag may have contained heroin, but the chances are 100 to 1 certain that it didn't.
Businessman 1: (reading the newspaper) One discovered naked in the kitchen...breasts smeared with peanut butter. The police took away a bag containing 15 grams of cannabis resin... it may also contain a quantity of heroin.
Bagley: Or a pork pie.
Businessman 1: I beg your pardon.
Bagley: I said the bag may also have contained a pork pie.
Businessman 1: I hardly see a pork pie's got anything to do with it.
Bagley: Alright then, what about a large turnip. It might also have contained a big turnip.
Priest: The bag was full of drugs.
Bagley: Nonsense.
Priest: The bag was full of drugs, it says so.
Bagley: The bag could've been full of anything. Pork pies, turnips, oven parts... it's the oldest trick in the book.
Priest: What book?
Bagley: The distortion of truth by association book. The word is "may." You all believe heroin was in the bag because cannabis resin was in the bag. The bag may have contained heroin, but the chances are 100 to 1 certain that it didn't.
puffpuff said:
On the contrary, the Riley name stood for very much more prior to its takeover by BMC.
puffpuff said:
there is one particular Riley name I would love to see resurrected......
What the NINE? Spent Sunday on a hill near Malvern with a bunch of the Riley Register at a VSCC trial. Saw a few 9s, 12/4s, Monacos, Kestrals and Merlins.
julesv said:
AL666 said:
Unless there's supposed to be some relationship happening between the Rileys and Nanjing, I don't see how Riley can start making TFs, as Nanjing are doing it pretty soon, or now. Starting production of the SV again will be nice because it was a great car; had everything going for it apart from price... I don't think they've got much chance of starting a prosperous production-car company and calling it Riley these days, not because of BL ruining their status, but (no offense to the guy's name) it's not a very interesting name. People are superficial and don't like names that aren't interesting or don't have something going for them; Lexus is hardly a fair example of a startup company that did well, their only selling point was that they were Toyotas that were supposed to be as luxurious as Mercedes, they got recognition and made really good cars and here they are today...
Why all the talk of them starting to make TFs? The article does not state this. Nanjing and Stdco are restarting TF production at Longbridge some time soon. The Riley/MG idea seems to revolve around the SV, a rather different animal.....
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; I was saying the same as you. I don't know how they could, but the article has a picture of the TF and suggests that Riley will be producing them and not Nanjing, even though it doesn't say anything about the TF elsewhere in the article...
AL666 said:
julesv said:
AL666 said:
Unless there's supposed to be some relationship happening between the Rileys and Nanjing, I don't see how Riley can start making TFs, as Nanjing are doing it pretty soon, or now. Starting production of the SV again will be nice because it was a great car; had everything going for it apart from price... I don't think they've got much chance of starting a prosperous production-car company and calling it Riley these days, not because of BL ruining their status, but (no offense to the guy's name) it's not a very interesting name. People are superficial and don't like names that aren't interesting or don't have something going for them; Lexus is hardly a fair example of a startup company that did well, their only selling point was that they were Toyotas that were supposed to be as luxurious as Mercedes, they got recognition and made really good cars and here they are today...
Why all the talk of them starting to make TFs? The article does not state this. Nanjing and Stdco are restarting TF production at Longbridge some time soon. The Riley/MG idea seems to revolve around the SV, a rather different animal.....
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear; I was saying the same as you. I don't know how they could, but the article has a picture of the TF and suggests that Riley will be producing them and not Nanjing, even though it doesn't say anything about the TF elsewhere in the article...
Yes a bit misleading as the photo should show an SV. Really I am a bit sceptical about all this but who knows. The UK car industry could do with a bit of good news for once.
pharle said:
cymtriks said:
Yes, marque names can be revitalised like Skoda.
The only interesting thing about Old Skoda was the utter crapness. Now they are crap in a much more insipid, tedious way, being nothing more than worse versions of Seats, which are themselves simply less good VWs. The only point is to try and sell more Golfs by having lots of different bland names - I mean brand names, which appeal to a rapidly shrinking "mainstream" market. They're all doomed because they do nothing a cheap Korean/Chinese chodmobile can't do for less money.
My Rapid was no more crapy than my friends aging Astras and Fiestas! Can you think of a similarly priced car that was better? Can you name a car twice as expensive that would allow easily controlable tail out power slides? (clue, you can't, they're all FWD) It was a lot cheaper, easy to work on, just as reliable and fun compared to it's cost competitors. Most of the "Skoda is rubbish" arguments ended up comparing the cars with much more expensive and more modern choices. Back in the early ninties I actually heard people say they were rubbish because they weren't as good as a 3 series or handle as well as an MR2!!! At this point a cost reality check is needed-
1989 1.3 Rapid 4198 quid
950cc (not even a liter!) Fiesta 5004 quid
Fiesta 1.1 5961 quid
Micra (truly horrible, the Rapid would of destroyed it) 5280 quid
Vauxhall Nova 1.0 4993 quid
It took me a long time to replace it because I wanted a small fun car. Everything in my budget was desperately dull and common. Cars in that part of the market seemed to be marketed entirely on the basis of how "worthy" and "sensible" they were. My KA, which replaced my Rapid, was far, far, better and more fun but then considering it cost a lot more and was designed in a different decade it would have been strange if it wasn't. Actually the fun bit of the KA was what swung the deal for me and MrsC, it was different and groovy and attracted a lot of interest before they became fairly common.
I'd still have stuck with the rear engine layout for Skoda and made a range of cars similar to the smart car at one end to the Alpine at the top. Interesting, different and fun.
BossCerbera said:
puffpuff said:
Think of a circuit in Surrey that celebrates its centenary this year.
....the one with its name on the new Bentley coupé you mean? That used to be on the entry-level Bentley of the 90s?
That was first used by Riley in 1929? Yes, that would be it, the Riley Brooklands.
The lightweight, open, two-seater sports car that triumphed at Le Mans, in TT races and at Brooklands itself of course. Rather like this one, a modern version of which could fill some gaps in the market:
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