MX5 vs Elise - Debate
Discussion
Scuffers said:
fromt engined sports car vs. mid engined sports car debate, no really answer, just different...
Sounds right to me.Also i'd add you need to be a better driver to go fast in an Elise.
Someone else on the thread said if they had the same power, power to weigh i'm assuming they meant, the Elise would be faster as its lighter and got more grip.
Not that clear cut I'd say, average driver in each and the MX5 would be quicker, racing driver and the Elise would be quicker. The MX5 is great as its so forgiving you can drive it at ten 10th's in a ham fisted manner and get away with it whilst laughing your head off. The average driver behind the wheel of the Elise will probably be at 8th's, white knuckled and worried they'll spin if they push harder.
jackal said:
matt uk said:
This is an interesting debate as we all seem to have a different view on what 'good handling' actually is.
For me a good handling car is a predictable one when driven at, just below or just over the limit of available grip. One that sends me clear messages about what the chassis is doing now and what it is going to do next and one that also gives me the control to adjust the car and for it to react accordingly to do what I want it to do right now and immediately after my next input of steering, throttle or brakes.
sounds reasonable enough... at least you have attempted to describe what you mean by handling any any discussion using the word requires each and every person to state their definition imoFor me a good handling car is a predictable one when driven at, just below or just over the limit of available grip. One that sends me clear messages about what the chassis is doing now and what it is going to do next and one that also gives me the control to adjust the car and for it to react accordingly to do what I want it to do right now and immediately after my next input of steering, throttle or brakes.
but you haven't mentioned actual behaviour, like what the cars natural tendency to do is on entry, mid and on exit... what it does when lifting off, when botting the throttle mid bend , how snappy it might be due to wheelbase/engien placement etc..
all of this is handling too and for me, is what I mean mainly by 'handling' more than anything else. It doesn't necessarily have much to do with which car is best at utilising available grip or which is the fastest... its to do with how I want a car to behave.
t drivers then chris7676 said:
Pointless to argue without having experienced.
Goes both ways though.jackal said:
It is. IN fact I drove my mums MX5 just a few weeks ago and was quite shocked just how remote the wheel was. based on that car I don't rate it at all tbh.
Your mum's set up (ooer) isn't right then. A hell of a lot of them aren't. I honestly wonder if most aren't.vz-r_dave said:
Its funny how anyone who owns or has owned a Lotus Elise makes the same assumptions an MX5 driver does but feels that they are allowed too. Why is that.
Again, it goes for both.kambites said:
You really will. If the geometry is set up right (which it rarely is, most owners don't get their geo done nearly often enough) the Elise is an order of magnitude better than the MX5.
Again, it goes for both cars. Your comment re Lotus is possibly more true of MX5 owners. When i was looking to buy i don't think i drove one car that felt like my pals original 1.6 which i had driven at Curborough, and the one i bought didn't feel quite right either. But once its set up properly the car was transformed, utterly transformed, you wouldn't believe its the same car.Tbh, as i've said before, i take with a big cupful of salt the opinions of people who've driven certain cars, *unless* they actually saw the car being set up or have the readings in their hands and it was done recently. The same goes for magazine reports too. When the 5 won best handling car on sale in Britain in the mid '90s, the very next year, exactly the same model and version of the car but with different wheels came 12th. Two models of the same car, two totally different reports, and i feel i know exactly why that is. Certainly, i have had experience of both descriptions of the car.
I've no doubt that with both MX5 and Elise, indeed with any car with adj susp (and i've had the same experience with my Boxster too) there is a big difference in cars that are set up and those that aren't.
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Edited by heebeegeetee on Monday 12th January 14:36
JCW_Matt said:
thinfourth2 said:
An entirely pointless argument as it cannot be clarified by anything other then personnel experience, opinion and preference
So until the "gigglemeter" is invented there is no quantifiable answer
Its a lovely argurment if you ask me.So until the "gigglemeter" is invented there is no quantifiable answer
If you have a track - with cones and various challenging bends and one car crosses the line before the other in a 'handling test' - surely that car is the better handler.
lets take a nissian micra with a CVT gearbox.
Fit it with skirts and then install a huge fan sucking air from under the car so it is glued to the road
Fit it with sprint compound slicks and a nitrous kit so it has 300Bhp
lets also take a caterham 7 and fit it with Tupperware tyres and a 100Bhp engine and a ultra close 6 speed box
Which is going to be faster and which is going to handle and be more fun
kambites said:
Well is there anyone on here who's driven a reasonable number of examples of both who thinks the MX5 has better steering feel? I'd be amazed frankly. Comparing the Elise's steering to the MX5's, is like comparing an MX5 to the afford mentioned Nissan Micra, such is the gulf.
Well, i've driven quite a few MX5's now, but only 2 of them have been right. Mine, and my pals 1.6.Anyone who wants to compare the steering of an MX5 as it should be with a fwd hatch, doesn't know what he's talking about, simple as.
heebeegeetee said:
kambites said:
Well is there anyone on here who's driven a reasonable number of examples of both who thinks the MX5 has better steering feel? I'd be amazed frankly. Comparing the Elise's steering to the MX5's, is like comparing an MX5 to the afford mentioned Nissan Micra, such is the gulf.
Well, i've driven quite a few MX5's now, but only 2 of them have been right. Mine, and my pals 1.6.Anyone who wants to compare the steering of an MX5 as it should be with a fwd hatch, doesn't know what he's talking about, simple as.
My point was that someone who compares the Elise as it should be to the MX5 doesn't know what they're talking about either.
Munter said:
Right then. What we need is MIRA, a standard MX5, a standard Elise, give them both a damn good setting up, The Stig, and the Alpine Course for the afternoon.
Whos paying?
All agreed but forget Mira. Its a test track and 99% of cars don't drive on test tracks for substantially more than 99% of the time.Whos paying?
Centre Gravity is in Atherstone for the set up, and there are great roads around there.
Only trouble is, i'd suggest the Mazda would need to be a Mk2 because all the Mk1s are either changed or shagged out, like mine.
kambites said:
heebeegeetee said:
kambites said:
Well is there anyone on here who's driven a reasonable number of examples of both who thinks the MX5 has better steering feel? I'd be amazed frankly. Comparing the Elise's steering to the MX5's, is like comparing an MX5 to the afford mentioned Nissan Micra, such is the gulf.
Well, i've driven quite a few MX5's now, but only 2 of them have been right. Mine, and my pals 1.6.Anyone who wants to compare the steering of an MX5 as it should be with a fwd hatch, doesn't know what he's talking about, simple as.
My point was that someone who compares the Elise as it should be to the MX5 doesn't know what they're talking about either.
IMHO In many respects the front-engined, LSD-equipped MX5 is more fun, but in terms of sheer ground covering ability and feedback the Elise is in a different league.
When you reach the ragged edge I daresay the Elise does require more skill (the example I drove - an SC - belonged to someone else, so I wasn't pushing particularly) but at 7/10ths it's already covering ground faster than a standard '5 could dream of, even with a very average driver in the Lotus.
When you reach the ragged edge I daresay the Elise does require more skill (the example I drove - an SC - belonged to someone else, so I wasn't pushing particularly) but at 7/10ths it's already covering ground faster than a standard '5 could dream of, even with a very average driver in the Lotus.
kambites said:
heebeegeetee said:
So that's Autocar mag, amongst others ruled out then.
Show me somewhere that Autocar says that the MX5 has steering feel on a par with the Elise.Let me make myself clear. I think if you put two good examples of the cars around a good test track, with some cones and slaloms etc, i think (and would expect) the Elise to be better. But i think if you go for a good long drive over alpine roads, or scottish or possibly even Welsh roads, i think the picture becomes much less clear, and i say that both for the handling and the steering. Certainly for the handling, maybe less so than for the steering, but i still don't think there'd be a huge difference. I'd certainly go so far as to say that around alpine hairpins etc, i reckon the 5 would be more fun than the Elise, just as mine was more fun than my Boxster S. The Boxster has way far too much grip to be really great fun imo unless you're doing warp factor 10, and also FWIW i was disappointed with the fun factor of my Boxster at Anglesey, 'cos again, the grip mitigated against tomfoolery. Bloody stable at speed though, and 2 cars spun off chasing me.
Could this superior steering feel have anything to do with the fact that the weight over the front wheels of the Elise is a lot less then the MX5.
A friend has a BBR turbo with 150HP, cusco coil overs and a full poly bush kit. It was fantastic fun, killed your back on the bumpy b roads but I have to be honest that and an S1 would be neck and neck on a country run. On track I think alot of Elise owners would be extremely suprised.
A friend has a BBR turbo with 150HP, cusco coil overs and a full poly bush kit. It was fantastic fun, killed your back on the bumpy b roads but I have to be honest that and an S1 would be neck and neck on a country run. On track I think alot of Elise owners would be extremely suprised.
Rawwr said:
heebeegeetee said:
I gotta be honest, i doubt it.
Ok, myself, having experience with both can tell you, outright and categorically that the steering feel in the Elise is a world apart from that of the MX5.I have found said magazine, along with 7 others. I'm going for a dump.
Rawwr said:
heebeegeetee said:
I gotta be honest, i doubt it.
Ok, myself, having experience with both can tell you, outright and categorically that the steering feel in the Elise is a world apart from that of the MX5.If we are going for full on thread drift then a Westy is cheaper and way better than the Elise in every way regarding handling and feel.
I wouldn't want either of them as an everyday car though.
This is a bit controversial....
I never really saw why so many people went crazy over how well the MX5 drives. I've owned and/or driven Porsche 944's, Mk1 MR2's, MX's, a Boxster and various Elises. The MX5 comes bottom of my preference list.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it's a bad car or that it in anyway handles badly. I just found that, when stacked up against comparable sports cars, I found it wanting.
I never really saw why so many people went crazy over how well the MX5 drives. I've owned and/or driven Porsche 944's, Mk1 MR2's, MX's, a Boxster and various Elises. The MX5 comes bottom of my preference list.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it's a bad car or that it in anyway handles badly. I just found that, when stacked up against comparable sports cars, I found it wanting.
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