RE: TVR Speed Six Design Spec Upgrade

[hahithestevieboy]

dkennedyvxt said:

hahithestevieboy said:

So would and LS7 engine not fit in an ex-sp6 cerb then?

I reckon melling should have copied the typhoon though. They just didnt make enough of those...my all time fav TVR

You mean Typhon.....

Mrs Parker will kill you for saying Typhoon...I know from experience.

Ooops!!! My mistake, thought it was the other (and a damn good name to boot) Still though, one of those with that kind of firepower could destroy whole planets and look seriously good doing it. Saw a green one of these at one of the shows and it was just an epic looking car. So lovely. Almost my fav of the whole show.

[swanny71]

Tvr Power said:

When i decide to retire i will write the true story and history of Tvr, any orders

Dom

Yes please!

[Mark A S]

swanny71 said:

Tvr Power said:

When i decide to retire i will write the true story and history of Tvr, any orders

Dom

Only if it contains gratuitous Sex and violence

[Harry Flashman]

VerySideways said:

Harry Flashman said:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/974755.htm

That's beautiful...

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic - engine looks rubbish. But sent to Melling for that rebuild, and for £17k you have a 500bhp+ Cerb, just waiting for some suspension and brake upgrades...

[JonRB]

Harry Flashman said:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/974755.htm

Blimey! There is such a thing as being *too* honest in an advert.

[hahithestevieboy]

JonRB said:

Harry Flashman said:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/974755.htm

Blimey! There is such a thing as being *too* honest in an advert.

Well he was asking second hand 1.2 supermini money for it. And by the sound of it, it does need about 10K worth of work with a load more to come. Just how much would it cost to get the thing truly up to scratch where you would have few problems???

Upgrade of all the wiring? Engine? Suspension? Would the list be replace virtually every mechanical and electrical component? I think there could be a ripe market for replica trevors that are better than the originals with better bits and suspension...

[VerySideways]

No, not being sarcastic - it's an Imperial blue Cerb for silly money, what's not to like? Buy it, send it off to Power for a 4.3 and Nitrons and you've got a seriously awesome car for way under £20k.

[smele]

Gridl0k said:

stuthemong said:

surrounded by charred £100 notes.

Which bank does these? All of them? Never seen one.

You would be surprised what Scottish banks print.




Can't wait to see someone with a 550BHP car on the road.

[sidewayz]

Mark A S said:

said some good stuff and ...

Personally, I find it a bit hard to believe, as I have a 4.3 SP 6 in my Tuscan from TVR power which puts out 415 BHP and 400 torques, it is an immense engine.
Another 101 BHP for a 200 cc increase appears optimistic, unless its revs like hell.

+1

Having read the spec and compared it with the changes on my 4.3
the differences that might deliver more power are

an extra 200 cc ( for the 516 bhp version)
different cam profile?
mods to follower geometry?
piston geometry?

Billet this and that,low frictions coatings etc may help it rev more but it's going to have to rev like a nutter to do an additional 100bhp.

Then for the 550bhp version you have an additional 200cc?

Wonder what the torque is like?

Edited by sidewayz on Tuesday 12th May 18:12

[Uncle Fester]

Tvr Power said:

johnbear said:

PhantomPH said:

Podie said:

PhantomPH said:

Whilst that sounds great, nearly £11k for the full business is a LOT of money.

Agreed. Makes me wonder if TVR would have been better adding circa £8-10k per vehicle to give better reliability...

In reality, wouldn't it really only be about £3k to the cost of the vehicle?? Remove/lower the profit percentage that melling will be taken, plus the engine removal/labour costs (the engine has to be built still) and you are only talking about machining and material differences.

ETA - I was under the impression that TVR changed the design in order to avoid paying Melling rights money...or something like that.

Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 12th May 11:48

After speaking to many involved with TVR and former Melling staff , I was lead to understand that the design changed because the original 5 engines supplied seized after 15 mins on idle whilst on the dyno at TVR. The engine required considerable work by John Ravenscroft make the design work. Melling disputed reliability etc and this lead to court action. If you talk to many of the key figures involved with TVR engine rebuilds and who were involved at the time of the SP6 development, the story seems the same.

When i decide to retire i will write the true story and history of Tvr, any orders

Dom

Put me down for one, any chance of the advance copy?

Last time we spoke about this, you said “I don’t fancy the Sushi”

[PascalBuyens]

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Because, by doing so, you'd take away the TVR soul... Just like putting in a US V8, it's just simply wrong...

[PascalBuyens]

CiderwithCerbie said:

Ummm, even if this is all true (for which we don't have objective evidence one way or the other) - does anyone really fancy driving a 500bhp Tuscan?!?

Yup.... Even told the guys at Racing Green I don't want it back until they can deliver 600bhp.

[Tvr Power]

sidewayz said:

Mark A S said:

said some good stuff and ...

Personally, I find it a bit hard to believe, as I have a 4.3 SP 6 in my Tuscan from TVR power which puts out 415 BHP and 400 torques, it is an immense engine.
Another 101 BHP for a 200 cc increase appears optimistic, unless its revs like hell.

+1

Having read the spec and compared it with the changes on my 4.3
the differences that might deliver more power are

an extra 200 cc ( for the 516 bhp version)
different cam profile?
mods to follower geometry?
piston geometry?

Billet this and that,low frictions coatings etc may help it rev more but it's going to have to rev like a nutter to do an additional 100bhp.

Then for the 550bhp version you have an additional 200cc?

Wonder what the torque is like?

Edited by sidewayz on Tuesday 12th May 18:12

Mr Melling i challenge you to make 550 bhp if you do this i personally will buy your first 4.7 ltr engine and promote your package and do away with my 4.3 packages. DEAL OR NO DEAL...........

Dom

[PascalBuyens]

smele said:

Gridl0k said:

stuthemong said:

surrounded by charred £100 notes.

Which bank does these? All of them? Never seen one.

You would be surprised what Scottish banks print.




Can't wait to see someone with a 550BHP car on the road.

Soon, but it won't be a Melling engine.....

[Robertjp]

The Options for Speed Six rebuilds?

Melling at 515 - 550bhp:

2 year warranty
4.5 : £9775
4.7 : £10925

TVR Power:

Std Rebuilds are around 360 BHP correct me if im wrong....

1 yr unlimited mileage warranty top end rebuilds £3000 + vat
2 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £4500 + vat cheapest option for full engine rebuilds
3 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £4500 + vat

415 BHP
5 yrs unlimited mileage warranty £7999 + vat

Racing Green: FFF design CIRCA 380-400 BHP

£6k + vat


STR8 Six: 350-400 BHP
£7k - £9k

Melling may be delivering the most powerful, and best value BHP per pound, but IMHO reliability is key to all of this, and the other guys on this list, so far, have put their money where their mouth is and the engines are going strong.

[Tvr Power]

PascalBuyens said:

smele said:

Gridl0k said:

stuthemong said:

surrounded by charred £100 notes.

Which bank does these? All of them? Never seen one.

You would be surprised what Scottish banks print.




Can't wait to see someone with a 550BHP car on the road.

Soon, but it won't be a Melling engine.....

Supercharged is the only reliable power to offer this has all ready been achieved by TVR 3yrs ago with a 4 ltr 10:00:1 engine running 10lbs boost,595 bhp with 490 ftlbs

Dom

[JonRB]

Tvr Power said:

Mr Melling i challenge you to make 550 bhp if you do this i personally will buy your first 4.7 ltr engine and promote your package and do away with my 4.3 packages. DEAL OR NO DEAL...........

Them thar's fightin' words.

Personally, I'm backing the guy who weld-repaired a cracked RV8 500 head such that it ran fine for years after until I sold the car.

(That's you, Dom, BTW)

[JonRB]

Robertjp said:

Racing Green: FFF design CIRCA 380-400 BHP

£6k + vat

The price hasn't been fixed yet. Last I heard it was circa £8k + VAT.

Also, Racing Green are currently working on a FF + supercharger package. I'm watching that one with great interest.

[smithyl23]

If those figures are correct, then people who have just fitted the 4.3 ltr engine from Power must surely be gutted. I still think i would rather have a nice 4.0ltr with a super charger to reach those figures, than a 4.5 / 4.7 ltr speed6.

[jonnylayze]

PascalBuyens said:

tegwin said:

Amazing stuff... but why would you spend that much money to still have an engine that is not ever going to be 100% reliable when you could just pop a BMW straight 6 straight in, spend some money tuning it and pocket the change!

Because, by doing so, you'd take away the TVR soul... Just like putting in a US V8, it's just simply wrong...

How is fitting a US V8 wrong. Like many others I think that this is the route TVR should have taken in the first place - either to fit the BMW 6 or V8 or fit a Chevy V8. If they'd done this, rather than pursuing aspirations well beyond the development budget they had available compared to the likes of Porsche or Ferrari, they'd probably still be in business now.

Let's not forget where TVR came from and that the legend was essentially forged on Jack Griffith dropping a 'US V8' into a Grantura chassis. TVR then began delivering to customers in large quantities with cars which used 'American' V6 and V8 engines. All the cars produced in the 80s and early 90s used either the Buick based Rover V8 or a Ford engine.

The essence of a TVR is a lightweight chassis with a plastic body and a powerful engine delivering class leading performance at a relatively modest price. Using proprietary engines was not a handicap for TVR and it is a strategy utilised by loads of sports car manufacturers down the decades - look at Frazer Nash and AC to name just 2 of the most evocative

This was a successful business model - it was when TVR attempted to move into the big league by producing engine/chassis and body that everything unravelled. This is the harsh reality of the attempt to move away from what they knew and what worked well.