RE: 'Not Guilty' Motorists Face Court Costs

[B Oeuf]

cris9964 said:

Awful and outrageous.


Its beginning to get scary when you see comments like this from Liberty on the government backdooring proposals for DNA retention to 12 years, bypassing due parliamentary process. You would not believe we live in a democracy governed by a centre left party...... (from bbc news website)

"Commenting on the government's change of policy, Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "This is another victory for Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention which protects the personal privacy of everyone in Britain.

"This law was breached by the largest DNA database per capita in the world and would still be breached by the Home Office's discredited proposals."

She added: "Stockpiling the intimate details of millions of innocents is bad enough without ducking public and parliamentary scrutiny by sneaking regulations in by the back door."

Do you have contact details for Liberty? I couldn't find it on their website

[TheEnd]

Signed, and facebooked!

[odyssey2200]

Signed

for all the good it will do.

Have we booked a date for the revolution yet?

We are well overdue one!

[niva441]

I think I've signed it, but no confirmation email has arrived (I checked my address). Is it just me this doesn't work for.

[camyug]

They would save more by going straight to conviction without trial.

Or why not just shoot us dead at the roadside?

[leon9191]

camyug said:

They would save more by going straight to conviction without trial.

Or why not just shoot us dead at the roadside?

Its to save money and bullets cost, stoning would work though.

[mitch78]

B'stard Child said:

Marvindodgers said:

"As a result the new rules make it clear that in future drivers will have to foot the bill for clearing their name."

Is this not a fundamental change in the rule of law in this country? - Innocent until proven guilty. The above statement quite clearly reads, guilty unless wealthy enough to prove your own innocence.

Nope I still think you are inocent untill found guilty - difference it whatever the result it's gonna cost you

I think they're actually only considering making people pay any costs incurred above those covered by legal aid. So if people use the legal aid representation and are found not guilty, there'd be no cost. On the other hand, if they paid for the best representation in the country, where they were virtually guaranteed to be found not guilty of an offence they had in fact committed, simply due to a technicality, they'd have to foot the bill for the difference.

[Freypal]

I cannot express how angry this makes me.

How the hell can INNOCENT people have to pay to clear their names? I cannot even begin to fathom how this is acceptable on any level.

This just makes it win-win for this robbing, lying, cheating bunch of cretins that is our government. If you challenge and win, you pay up. If you challenge and lose, you pay up. If you don't challenge, you pay up. So you have no choice but to pay up, even when it is unjust and proved in a court of law to be un-lawful.

This beggers belief.

[7mike]

Didn't it used to be; Innocent until proved guilty?
Then under nu-labour we got guilty until proved innocent.
Now we have guilty unless you can pay to prove innocence.

Isn't democracy just great

[LuS1fer]

niva441 said:

I think I've signed it, but no confirmation email has arrived (I checked my address). Is it just me this doesn't work for.

You have to get an e-mail and click it to confirm it's your e-mail address before your vote registers. Check it hasn't gone straight to your junk mail/deleted items.

Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 20th October 14:44

[CMS]

So now, let me get this right, you're still innocent until proven guilty (or have they decided this is a bit old fashioned too)? Then, if found to be completely innocent of any wrong doing then you will be 'fined', for being innocent.

Incredible display of mind blowing arrogance and utter distain for the people and democracy in general.

I'm innocent of many thousands of crimes, on a daily basis. This could get very expensive. Probably need to set up some kind of direct debit...

[G20RG B]

I get the impression Labour are desperate to get OUT of power and are doing as much as possible to fk It up before a new party takes over.

I certainley wont be voting for them.
Then again i'm not claiming benifits or a single parent or a counil worker or gay or an immagrant or a thief/ junkie/ criminal so I get nothing from them.

[ZesPak]

CMS said:

So now, let me get this right, you're still innocent until proven guilty (or have they decided this is a bit old fashioned too)? Then, if found to be completely innocent of any wrong doing then you will be 'fined', for being innocent.

Incredible display of mind blowing arrogance and utter distain for the people and democracy in general.

I'm innocent of many thousands of crimes, on a daily basis. This could get very expensive. Probably need to set up some kind of direct debit...

That's what I said, now let's print 1000 of Brown's plates and go seek some flashers!

[A911DOM]

Very good, I see what you're doing there Gordan:

You've done us up the @rse, now you're going to make us airtight as part of your final flurrish.

Nice, real nice

[GMS lawyer]

B Oeuf said:

cris9964 said:

Awful and outrageous.


Its beginning to get scary when you see comments like this from Liberty on the government backdooring proposals for DNA retention to 12 years, bypassing due parliamentary process. You would not believe we live in a democracy governed by a centre left party...... (from bbc news website)

"Commenting on the government's change of policy, Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "This is another victory for Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention which protects the personal privacy of everyone in Britain.

"This law was breached by the largest DNA database per capita in the world and would still be breached by the Home Office's discredited proposals."

She added: "Stockpiling the intimate details of millions of innocents is bad enough without ducking public and parliamentary scrutiny by sneaking regulations in by the back door."

Do you have contact details for Liberty? I couldn't find it on their website

Liberty have been contacted and have responded today:

"Dear Ms Miller,

Thank you for email, and please accept my apologies for the delay in replying. We are happy to add our name to the below petition. With regards to your query about spokespeople, if you want to refer journalists onto the Liberty Press Office on XXXXXXXX then please feel free to do so. However, we are an organisation working on a very wide range of issues with limited resources so I’m afraid we can’t guarantee that we will be able to fill all requests. In terms of circulating this information to our members, we will aim to include some information about the petition next time we contact our members by email.

Kind regards

Sabina

[WorAl]

God, this country is a fking sthole now isn't it? what a bunch of fking retards we live under.

[B Oeuf]

GMS lawyer said:

B Oeuf said:

cris9964 said:

Awful and outrageous.


Its beginning to get scary when you see comments like this from Liberty on the government backdooring proposals for DNA retention to 12 years, bypassing due parliamentary process. You would not believe we live in a democracy governed by a centre left party...... (from bbc news website)

"Commenting on the government's change of policy, Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "This is another victory for Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention which protects the personal privacy of everyone in Britain.

"This law was breached by the largest DNA database per capita in the world and would still be breached by the Home Office's discredited proposals."

She added: "Stockpiling the intimate details of millions of innocents is bad enough without ducking public and parliamentary scrutiny by sneaking regulations in by the back door."

Do you have contact details for Liberty? I couldn't find it on their website

Liberty have been contacted and have responded today:

"Dear Ms Miller,

Thank you for email, and please accept my apologies for the delay in replying. We are happy to add our name to the below petition. With regards to your query about spokespeople, if you want to refer journalists onto the Liberty Press Office on XXXXXXXX then please feel free to do so. However, we are an organisation working on a very wide range of issues with limited resources so I’m afraid we can’t guarantee that we will be able to fill all requests. In terms of circulating this information to our members, we will aim to include some information about the petition next time we contact our members by email.

Kind regards

Sabina

Thanks

[paul.deitch]

perhaps Labour is at last showing its Stalinist roots? If so there is more to come...

[GMS lawyer]

mitch78 said:

B'stard Child said:

Marvindodgers said:

"As a result the new rules make it clear that in future drivers will have to foot the bill for clearing their name."

Is this not a fundamental change in the rule of law in this country? - Innocent until proven guilty. The above statement quite clearly reads, guilty unless wealthy enough to prove your own innocence.

Nope I still think you are inocent untill found guilty - difference it whatever the result it's gonna cost you

I think they're actually only considering making people pay any costs incurred above those covered by legal aid. So if people use the legal aid representation and are found not guilty, there'd be no cost. On the other hand, if they paid for the best representation in the country, where they were virtually guaranteed to be found not guilty of an offence they had in fact committed, simply due to a technicality, they'd have to foot the bill for the difference.

Your understanding is right. However, legal aid is not AVAILABLE for the majority of motoring cases so you have no option BUT to use a lawyer who charges privately. Lord Bach who led the "consultation" is quoted using an analogy of expecting the state to pay for private school fees when you could have sent your children to a state school. This works only where the state school existed in the first place!

It is not just motorists affected. Companies are also likely to be significantly hit as legal aid is not available for Health and Safety Prosecutions against companies.The government's answer to this is ....take out insurance!

[Gizmo!]

Outrageous.
£60 and three points if you agree that you're guilty.
£x costs if you don't agree.

Signed: 4,181.