RE: Caterham Readying 'Entirely New' Car

[kambites]

CDP said:

I think a replacement to the original Elan sounds most likely. It's one of the closest "proper" cars to a Seven and would be completely within Caterhams capabilities. It's got to be around 15cwt to avoid being confused with the MX5.

That would go head to head with the Elise and I'm not sure they want to go there, at least not until the Elise moves up market with the S3.

[otolith]

kambites said:

That would go head to head with the Elise and I'm not sure they want to go there, at least not until the Elise moves up market with the S3.

The next Elise is slated for 2015, with still no word of any engines besides the 1.6 for the current car. There's a fair bit of resentment amongst some Lotus customers at the moment over the direction the company has taken - announcing a car now to take advantage of that and aiming to get it out before the next Elise might be a bit early but not by that much.

[Martin Keene]

MarJay said:

What is the betting that their 'entirely new car' will have the same silhouette as a 7?

This...

[CDP]

kambites said:

CDP said:

I think a replacement to the original Elan sounds most likely. It's one of the closest "proper" cars to a Seven and would be completely within Caterhams capabilities. It's got to be around 15cwt to avoid being confused with the MX5.

That would go head to head with the Elise and I'm not sure they want to go there, at least not until the Elise moves up market with the S3.

The Elise is getting ever more expensive and heavier and TVR has probably gone forever. A new car based on Seven technology but with a basic but usable interior could be quite a useful counterpart to the regular Caterham range; especially if it allows for a choice of bigger engines.

Caterham are one of the few companies that could pull off a genuine successor to the Chimera style car and actually sell them.

[Gizmo!]

I'd just like to say:

UGH, it'll be bigger and heavier and Caterham have lost the plot and they'll be alienating their core Market and etc and so forth.

[Martin Keene]

I'll be utterly stunned if it is the mk1 Elise or a variation there of. The chassis that underpins the Elise, Exige, 2-11, etc has hardly changed since it was introduced. So Lotus aren't going to have sold the IP of the mk1, because it is just about the same as the mk2.

So the only way it could be Elise related is if Lotus are going to build a Caterham VX220, which is hardly 'enitrely new'. Though that said, it is newer than what I suspect we are going to get...

Edited by Martin Keene on Monday 13th December 19:15

[BertBert]

Gizmo! said:

I'd just like to say:

UGH, it'll be bigger and heavier and Caterham have lost the plot and they'll be alienating their core Market and etc and so forth.

It'll also be at a price point higher than the 7. I reckon 35-50. It's very exciting, but I'm prepared to be dissapointed!
Bert

[Cotty]

EVS777 said:

RenesisEvo said:

MiniMadMike said:

MiniMan64 said:

Gotta be a roadracer/trackday Radical type car surely?

Was going to say exactly the same. Gotta be radical-esque. Very exciting though, hope it is something as different as they seem to suggest.

I wonder if instead it's more like a competitor to the Ginetta G40?

I'll second the G40 type route!!

Ill stick in a "me too". Would love to see a G40/21 GTO esk car.

[boxerTen]

Carparticus said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if its an Electric Caterham with acceleration to out run the Millenium Falcon.

I recently witnessed a Westfield with a new UK made YASA EV motor in it (as made in Oxford…) and to say the power was something else would be an understatement.

These new pancake motors are just 3 inches thick and only a 13 inches in diameter (and can be 'stacked' for even more power etc, or even one per wheel with suitable vectoring control). But here's the killer point .. it has 500 Nm of torque, or about 375 Lb ft in old money.

In other words, the incredibly small size and weight of these new motors compared to the weight of old internal combustion lumps, and the resulting weight savings overall and the need for remarkably compact high power LiFePO4 pack … are all starting to make a lot of sense !

Torque means nothing. You can have as much torque as you like given the right gearbox. What's important is the product of the torque and the revs at which it is being produced - in other words the horsepower.

As for an electric Caterham - perhaps you might consider what a few hundred kilos of batteries means for a light weight sports car - and how long those batteries might last given a hard charge down a B road (answer: not enough to get you home).

Edited by boxerTen on Monday 13th December 19:20

[k-ink]

That 21 GTO would be ideal - with a properly trimmed interior.

[rejn]

Insight said:

Maybe, just maybe, they've bought the rights to the Mk1 Lotus Elise and they are going to produce that for all eternity!!!

Ha - what a brilliant brilliant idea. Lotus won't want it any more with it's move up-market - and it would be a great repeat of history.

Can I have mine in Chrome Orange, please!

[uremaw]

(whispers) Griffith...? (runs away)

[Carparticus]

Max_Torque said:

Electric motors, = awesome (high efficiency, high specfic torque, robust, low friction etc)

Battery energy storage = sucks (Heavy (low specific energy density & limited specific power, expensive, not very durable and requires expensive power electronics to get the best from (both charge and discharge.

Basically the opposite of an internal combustion system (engine = crap, fuel = awesome).........

Sit down and price up 200kW of electic system and compare that to say the £ per kW for a decent duratec.

Err, that’s exactly what I am doing, and I spent much of last year 'pricing it up' which has needed constant revisions due to rapidly changing/improving tech developments.

And yup, the EV system exceeds 200Kw peak, including the 'crap battery system' which is also a bit 'out there'. There's a substantial amount of ultracaps going in too …

The end result is going to be something a lot more appealing to the eye than a Tesla, with similar performance if not actually a bit quicker, and 4WD.


(no disrespect to Tesla, as its a pretty awesome bit of kit !)

[Munter]

uremaw said:

(whispers) Griffith...? (runs away)

.... Wildcat....

[anonymous-user]

Carparticus said:

There's a substantial amount of ultracaps going in too …

persumably to absorb the peak regen loads, which also means you will have to have a high power DC-DC convertor as well. (as unlike batteries, a capacitors voltage varies with the square root of it's depth of discharge) A 200kW inverter systemm for the motor drive is going to hurt (£££) a bit too!

[bern]

f1colin said:

Let's hope that they have secured the rights to produce the Exige once Lotus stops.... would be a logical extension of the original licensing ethos of the Seven, future-proofing it with a low volume independent manufacturer. Whilst Danny Bahar takes Lotus into a new and exciting chapter for a different audience with a larger wallet (and up against serious global competition), Caterham would still provide the purist with lightweight thrills.

Now that's a good idea!

[Twincam16]

This website suggests that it'll be the engineering, rather than the car, that'll be 'all new':

http://www.totallymotor.co.uk/news/car-style/conve...

"As you'd expect, it's going to small and light; cut from the usual Caterham DNA, but interestingly the new car will be powered by the "next-generation Caterham Motorsport engine".

So they're making their own engine now?

However, Autocar's intel suggests it won't be another Seven variant:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/forums/t/16944.aspx

"The firm is providing few clues as to the identity of the new model, but has said the model will not be another variant of the Seven and will be the first all-new Caterham since the 21 from the 1990s."

Whichever way, I bet the new components have been tested extensively in Seven-shaped test-mules on ordinary track days, and as a result, not one of the magazines noticed.

[Seven Smiles]

Where on earth do you see a connection between the Caterham/Lotus 7 ethos and a bloody great lardy TVR????

[havoc]

Seven Smiles said:

Where on earth do you see a connection between the Caterham/Lotus 7 ethos and a bloody great lardy TVR????

This would be a 'lardy' TVR that weighs maybe a tonne all-in, right? Lighter than all but the smallest hatchbacks nowadays...

[onemorelap]

Remember contributing to the attached from a couple of years ago:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Breaking News: Public To Design New Caterham&mid=42525