RE: PH Heroes: Honda NSX

[NoelWatson]

scampbird said:

yonex said:

NoelWatson said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'd love one, particularly an early one - I don't think the facelift was an improvement.

Though I think the straight line speed might be slightly disappointing by modern standards.

Compared to what?

He has a point. Not that you'd want to buy one for 0-100 tests but as a measurement of where they are compared to current cars its a useful reference.

Would you honestly say that the NSX is very fast car?

Edit Norton Way (Letchworth) have/had a highly regarded NSX Technician and service facility.

Edited by yonex on Monday 24th January 16:02

It's enough performance. Its a car that you can still drive hard on a public road and not feel like you ought to go straight to jail.

It's probably a similar level of performance to a standard Lotus Evora (since they have similar power and weight levels, I assume they'll be similar, lots of assumptions there ... the Evora actually felt a little slower to me).

Compared to modern Ferraris and Porsche then yes, relatively speaking, its slow. I guess a modern hot hatch could give it a run for its money, but that says more about the market and its obsession with horsepower.

scampbird said:

It's probably a similar level of performance to a standard Lotus Evora

Evora takes 13 secoonds to get to ton - NSX is around 1.5 seconds quicker

scampbird said:

I guess a modern hot hatch could give it a run for its money,

Maybe once rolling, and at lower speeds, then yes. But off the line or past 60, I can't see it - my R26.R is way slower than my NSX.

[james_gt3rs]

Stedman said:

JUST LISTEN

Sounds glorious!

[exgtt]

isee said:

There was one, seemingly abandoned in my apartment bloc's car park for a while. It looked rather tired through not being driven, But I always did wonder what the owner looks like. I now see the NSX has been removed and in that car space lives a Honde Civic Hybrid, driven by a woman who did not return my nod, nor thought to hold the door up for me when i was following her into the apartment block with both my hands full... I guess the owner of the NSX moved out alon giwth his car.

Or she chopped it in under the scrappage sceme, imagine!

[mcelliott]

One of my favourite cars of all time. The design still looks box fresh even today.

[havoc]

NoelWatson said:

I'd say it is fast enough for UK roads.

And then some. Redline it in third and you're starting to risk your licence, and then you get into fourth which feels just like 3rd except the scenery is going by rather quicker!
(I've not yet found out what 5th can do...)

It's also got plenty of poke throughout the rev-range (unlike most other VTECs), and empirically-speaking my 3.0 is as quick on the road as an E46 M3 cabrio. You're still looking at north of £50k list-price* to find something genuinely and noticeably quicker...



* Caterfields and trackday specials excepted.

[Dagnut]

havoc said:

NoelWatson said:

I'd say it is fast enough for UK roads.

And then some. Redline it in third and you're starting to risk your licence, and then you get into fourth which feels just like 3rd except the scenery is going by rather quicker!
(I've not yet found out what 5th can do...)

It's also got plenty of poke throughout the rev-range (unlike most other VTECs), and empirically-speaking my 3.0 is as quick on the road as an E46 M3 cabrio. You're still looking at north of £50k list-price* to find something genuinely and noticeably quicker...



* Caterfields and trackday specials excepted.

bit of a stretch there you can buy a 996 turbo for 25k..any number of TVR's..Nobles...E92 M3... Corvette...XKR...a number of AMGS...I could go on

[soad]

Wouldn't mind one of these beauties in my garage one day. Very tempting

[GKP]

NoelWatson said:

Evora takes 13 secoonds to get to ton - NSX is around 1.5 seconds quicker

scampbird said:

I guess a modern hot hatch could give it a run for its money,

Maybe once rolling, and at lower speeds, then yes. But off the line or past 60, I can't see it - my R26.R is way slower than my NSX.

Evo took an Evora and an NSX to Bedford's west circuit last year. The Evora was 3 seconds faster than the Honda.

[anonymous-user]

havoc said:

NoelWatson said:

I'd say it is fast enough for UK roads.

And then some. Redline it in third and you're starting to risk your licence, and then you get into fourth which feels just like 3rd except the scenery is going by rather quicker!
(I've not yet found out what 5th can do...)

It's also got plenty of poke throughout the rev-range (unlike most other VTECs), and empirically-speaking my 3.0 is as quick on the road as an E46 M3 cabrio. You're still looking at north of £50k list-price* to find something genuinely and noticeably quicker...



* Caterfields and trackday specials excepted.

Its more the acceleration, I guess after a diet of superbikes and the odd track car I expected more from it. Not taking away the feel of the car though as I said it would have been awesome as a daily drive. Interesting you bring up list price, my old one would have been 70K or so back in the day, I wonder what that's worth like for like? The last 3.2 (bone stock) I was in just didn't feel 'that' quick, it put me off revisiting them to be honest. Unfortunately the days of sensible priced NA1's are dying out. Lower geared some weight loss and perhaps some flow work would make a nice car if you could start out at 13-15K in the first place, but that's not likely in the current climate. I personally would never go FI as IMO it goes totally against the ethos of the car. Horses for courses been there done that and glad I did

These days when you are looking at mid to late 30's for a properly looked after NA2 there is quite a bit of choice in the marketplace.

[Baryonyx]

This has to be one of my all time favourite sports cars. It still looks so fresh; typically Japanese with it's aggressive, purposeful looks and it's neat lines. It has edge that some would call cold and clinical, but for me it knocks the competition dead, and has a cool car geek quality that Ferrari, Lamborghini et al just don't have.

I wish they still made them in the original guise. As has often been said, stripping weight and driving with smaller engines is the way forward - the trick is the make the downsizing fun. Mazda did it with the MX-5, Honda did it with this. Despite being nearly 20 years old, it still looks like it's from the future. I once heard it called "The thinking man's Ferrari", and I quite agree.

[Johnnytheboy]

NoelWatson said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'd love one, particularly an early one - I don't think the facelift was an improvement.

Though I think the straight line speed might be slightly disappointing by modern standards.

Compared to what?

Haven't got the figures in front of me, but I'm fairly sure it's got almost the same headline figures as the Mk2 Focus RS.

(I should confess that I own the latter. The reason I know this is the NSX was for a long time my dream car, so I had a look in Autocar).

And the RS isn't out on its own, the Megane 250, Golf R/Scirocco R and various other hot hatches are now as quick. And ~half the price the NSX was new.

[Harry Monk]

GKP said:

NoelWatson said:

Evora takes 13 secoonds to get to ton - NSX is around 1.5 seconds quicker

scampbird said:

I guess a modern hot hatch could give it a run for its money,

Maybe once rolling, and at lower speeds, then yes. But off the line or past 60, I can't see it - my R26.R is way slower than my NSX.

Evo took an Evora and an NSX to Bedford's west circuit last year. The Evora was 3 seconds faster than the Honda.

An NSX 3.0 is a little bit slower than a 350Z around most circuits, an NSX 3.2 a tad quicker. Think 350Z cross country pace and you're about on the money.

Edited by Harry Monk on Monday 24th January 18:15

[flemke]

havoc said:

GlenMH said:

havoc said:

As people may have seen, GlenMH lives in the right place to see NSXs, even -Rs!
(Glen - am assuming the -R was an NA1 if they only wanted $120k???)

Did the NA1 have non-pop up projector headlights?

NA1 is the original 3.0, NA2 the later 3.2 cars. So NA2s can have pop-ups but NA1s can't have projectors.

So if the car you saw was a projector, it was an NA2 Type R. Don't just go by bodykit (front bonnet and rear spoiler most obviously) though, as these are not-uncommon retrofits/copies - check:-
- seats (ultra-expensive racing buckets, usually red, although the Type-S also had more bucket-like seats with colour-coded centres),
- wheel (momo, IIRC),
- gear-lever gaiter (fabric mesh not leather),
- engine bay cover (mesh, possibly CF mesh)
...and about a dozen other little tweaks which the true afficionados from NSXCB will know better than me - believe the wheels were lightweight imitations of the normal 17"s as well.


...so I may be wrong (Sudesh will be along soon to tell me I am), but $120k for a genuine NA2-R is a good price.

Engine cover mesh is metal, not CF.
A lot of those bits can be, and have sometimes been, picked up in the aftermarket at added to make a normal car look like an "R". The least likely, I would think, would be the carbon/Kevlar seat shells, which are beautiful, and very comfortable, but cost an unconscionable amount from the factory.
Gen 2 wheels were standard.

It has "NSX-R" embossed into the door sills, alongside the etched chassis #. That would be tougher to replicate for cosmetic purposes, unless one had set out to perpetrate an actual fraud (unlikely though that would be in the car business).

Unless you get into springs and dampers, another indication is that both Gens of R had a lower final drive than the standard models did. It worked well in the Gen 1, with its 5-speed, but IMO was a mistake in the Gen 2, which, with its 6-speed, does not have enough range between the 6 gears to accommodate the shorter gearing.

[flemke]

NoelWatson said:

yonex said:

NoelWatson said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'd love one, particularly an early one - I don't think the facelift was an improvement.

Though I think the straight line speed might be slightly disappointing by modern standards.

Compared to what?

He has a point. Not that you'd want to buy one for 0-100 tests but as a measurement of where they are compared to current cars its a useful reference.

Would you honestly say that the NSX is very fast car?

Edit Norton Way (Letchworth) have/had a highly regarded NSX Technician and service facility.

Edited by yonex on Monday 24th January 16:02

I'd say it is fast enough for UK roads.

Of course it is, and fast enough for any other roads, with the possible exception of an empty Autobahn, which rarely exists.

[the_hood]

A car that i've always wanted to own, not sure i'll ever be able to affored it though

[anonymous-user]

flemke said:

Of course it is, and fast enough for any other roads, with the possible exception of an empty Autobahn, which rarely exists.

My point was not if it was fast enough for the public road which one could debate a smart car actually is, more that is it a truely fast car? I never felt it was and find it interesting why others do and what their markers are? In the same way I found it too 'sensible' for a weekend toy. I guess never meet your heroes.....unless an F1 comes up at a sensible price lol.

[anything fast]

For those who think this car is not that quick it came out in 1989/90, now back then it was easily quick enough to keep up with 911's etc, even now any car that can top 155/160 and hit 60 in around 5ish secs is fast, especially when mated to RWD...

i would love to see a hot hatch keep pace with an NSX round a track..at full chat most would understeer off in to the bushes...! The NSX is a classic and will just keep going up in value. I had a chance to buy a LHD silver one for £10,000 a few years ago.. should have done it! a similar cars would now fetch at least 15k...

[trackdemon]

Talk of horsepower & ultimate 0-60 standing start times misses the point of the NSX, its about the whole driving experience not just straight line ability. When new in '91 276bhp was hardly groundbreaking so its not going to be now.... However it does seem to make the very best of what it has - a large powerband, good aero efficiency & lowish weight seem to help it achieve decent numbers and it certainly feels plenty quick enough on the road, especially so if you use the gearbox to keep the revs beyond 5k rpm (hardly a chore with such a nice shift action). FWIW here's a list of a few different cars trap speeds as recorded @ various VMAX events (Bruntingthorpe):

Griffith 500 156mph
993 C2 158mph
Maserati 3200GT 160mph
NSX 3.0 160mph
M3 CSL 161mph
Cayman S 163mph
Z3M Coupe 163mph
996 C2 163mph
Z4M Coupe 164mph
Ferrari 355 166mph
TVR Tuscan 166mph

Pretty close to some more modern machinery really, its plenty quick enough for the public road....

But the NSX is about the handling and using the drivetrain, not just pure speed. A fast winding British B road suits it better - or even better, the Route Napolean...

Great car. Will be very sad to sell mine (which I need to in the next few months really )

[Harry Monk]

anything fast said:

i would love to see a hot hatch keep pace with an NSX round a track..at full chat most would understeer off in to the bushes...!

If you want to see that, just turn up at the Bedford Autodrome with an NSX 3.0 and a Megane R26.R. The Renault is massively quicker.

[Mermaid]

trackdemon said:

Talk of horsepower & ultimate 0-60 standing start times misses the point of the NSX, its about the whole driving experience not just straight line ability. When new in '91 276bhp was hardly groundbreaking so its not going to be now.... However it does seem to make the very best of what it has - .

But the NSX is about the handling and using the drivetrain, not just pure speed. A fast winding British B road suits it better - or even better, the Route Napolean...

sounds a bit like the E30 M3.