RE: Range Rover Goes Further with Range e
Discussion
Digga said:
Lexus seem to shift a fair few hybrids 4x4 and otherwise and have no real competitor, so I guess the diesel/electric Range-e's should be a success.
In fact, being diesel-elec rather than petrol-elec might make them even more frugal, for those who acre, or want to be seen to care.
Since the new model RX, Lexus UK has only imported the hybrid model. They just didnt see the demand for the petrol model given the tax implications etc. But that said, they didnt sell that many of the petrol model once the hyrid came out anyway. So from about 05, you will struggle to find that many 300 / 350 RX's as tha vast majority will be 400h's.In fact, being diesel-elec rather than petrol-elec might make them even more frugal, for those who acre, or want to be seen to care.
They "seem" to make money with this approach. So maybe there is something in it? Not convinced myself.
One positive for me when driving the Range Rover, is that it's a much more comfortable drive.
Not just because of the air suspension, upright 'armchair' driving position, etc. But because of it's size and weight I actually drive slower/smoother compared to when I have had sporty saloons - BWW & Audi e.g.
The road is a safer place now that I'm driving a bunny killing 4x4!
The preconceptions of 4x4s and their drivers posted on here do make me chuckle, and more determined to carry on with my anti-social behaviour of owning a 4x4!
The poster who states sports cars are at bumper level to a 4x4. Do you honestly suggest that all car design should be based on heights/sizes relative to the size of your car?
It's all about you!!
FFS take the cotton wool wrapping off, and get rid of the chip on your shoulder.
Not just because of the air suspension, upright 'armchair' driving position, etc. But because of it's size and weight I actually drive slower/smoother compared to when I have had sporty saloons - BWW & Audi e.g.
The road is a safer place now that I'm driving a bunny killing 4x4!
The preconceptions of 4x4s and their drivers posted on here do make me chuckle, and more determined to carry on with my anti-social behaviour of owning a 4x4!
The poster who states sports cars are at bumper level to a 4x4. Do you honestly suggest that all car design should be based on heights/sizes relative to the size of your car?
It's all about you!!
FFS take the cotton wool wrapping off, and get rid of the chip on your shoulder.
Greenpis said:
One positive for me when driving the Range Rover, is that it's a much more comfortable drive.
Not just because of the air suspension, upright 'armchair' driving position, etc. But because of it's size and weight I actually drive slower/smoother compared to when I have had sporty saloons - BWW & Audi e.g.
The road is a safer place now that I'm driving a bunny killing 4x4!
The preconceptions of 4x4s and their drivers posted on here do make me chuckle, and more determined to carry on with my anti-social behaviour of owning a 4x4!
The poster who states sports cars are at bumper level to a 4x4. Do you honestly suggest that all car design should be based on heights/sizes relative to the size of your car?
It's all about you!!
FFS take the cotton wool wrapping off, and get rid of the chip on your shoulder.
What chip? Why is it always assumed by PHers with expensive cars that someone who doesn't like theirs has a chip on their shoulder or is 'jealous'? Maybe I just don't like them?Not just because of the air suspension, upright 'armchair' driving position, etc. But because of it's size and weight I actually drive slower/smoother compared to when I have had sporty saloons - BWW & Audi e.g.
The road is a safer place now that I'm driving a bunny killing 4x4!
The preconceptions of 4x4s and their drivers posted on here do make me chuckle, and more determined to carry on with my anti-social behaviour of owning a 4x4!
The poster who states sports cars are at bumper level to a 4x4. Do you honestly suggest that all car design should be based on heights/sizes relative to the size of your car?
It's all about you!!
FFS take the cotton wool wrapping off, and get rid of the chip on your shoulder.
And you can't deny that there are a fair few badly-driven 4x4s around, their bulk amplifying the bad driving for all concerned.
Twincam16 said:
What chip? Why is it always assumed by PHers with expensive cars that someone who doesn't like theirs has a chip on their shoulder or is 'jealous'? Maybe I just don't like them?
And you can't deny that there are a fair few badly-driven 4x4s around, their bulk amplifying the bad driving for all concerned.
Expensive is all relative, mine is to me. But plenty of 4x4's are snotters as are most cars.And you can't deny that there are a fair few badly-driven 4x4s around, their bulk amplifying the bad driving for all concerned.
I didn't mention jealousy at all, I just find a lot of the posts re 4x4s totally irrational.
And true that some 4x4s are driven badly. Again like most types of cars.
Bulk may magnify this, or easy to spot if you're looking for it.
I really love fast sports cars, just that my needs have changed and I prefer the comfort of my car. It doesn't mean that I think all sports car drivers are ignorant, speed freaks, nor that they should justify their choice of car.
Good luck to them I say, but don't worry about why I drive what I do.
GKP said:
mft said:
Quinny said:
Why is my choice of transport any of your business
It's not, per se, but worrying about efficiency whilst buying a Range Rover is a bit backwards. If maximising MPG is your thing, you'd make far bigger gains buying something that doesn't run such huge tyres or have the CdA of a house. 
Don't get me wrong - I'm not against what RR have done; in fact, I applaud it, much as I applauded the "78mpg Porsche 918", for highlighting the ridiculous nature of car emission regulation, and for demonstrating their technical superiority over the politicians.
But don't go suggesting that this RR is significantly more energy-efficient than a basic TDV6 RR. I suspect if you look at the energy used to create its hybrid drivetrain (as the Prius has been criticised before) it would actually be significantly worse.
After 8 years of Honda driving and belonging to various Honda clubs I bought a Mazda and found that the MX5 clubs and forums are mostly a load of toss with some frightening misinformation and chavtastic views being shared. So I decided that instead of reading just the classifieds and headlines I'd jump into the PH forums and join petrolheads of all marques.
Ironic then (and more than a little amusing), that my quest to find a forum suitable for a sports car has brought me to PH where the frequency of anti-4x4 posts has filled me with a burning NEED to buy a Range Rover just to p
s off the green brigade. Why would I want one? How about, "'coz I just fking do."
Ironic then (and more than a little amusing), that my quest to find a forum suitable for a sports car has brought me to PH where the frequency of anti-4x4 posts has filled me with a burning NEED to buy a Range Rover just to p
s off the green brigade. Why would I want one? How about, "'coz I just fking do." Edited by Doniger on Friday 18th February 11:53
mft said:
But don't go suggesting that this RR is significantly more energy-efficient than a basic TDV6 RR. I suspect if you look at the energy used to create its hybrid drivetrain (as the Prius has been criticised before) it would actually be significantly worse.
Let me suggest then that its a lot faster than the basic model! Faster than than the TDV8 without needing a V8 under the bonnet.Those comparisons of the Prius are wrong. Total life even on 60k miles is less for HC, CO2 and NOx than a typical petrol car.
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 12:49
So they compare a 1.5l Prius to an unidentified 2.0l petrol car and conclude that with the exception of CO2, the emissions differ by a few percent, funny that.
I wonder if the 'vehicle' lifespan happens to be the same as the batteries lifespan to skew the overall picture somewhat?
I wonder if the 'vehicle' lifespan happens to be the same as the batteries lifespan to skew the overall picture somewhat?
Edited by Lanby on Friday 18th February 13:52
Im not really sure what you post is trying to say. What exactly did you want in response to your question?!
You appeared to be commenting based on subjective ideas in the face of emperical data?
To be fair you can see the proportions of emission output here on what is a modest 60k life and the differences in the Teal colour. The maintainace sees a big jump in some sections and the bullet point at the botton include batteries.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of the resources required to make anything and just cling on to the Clarkson hyperbole regarding nickel mining. Imagine if the Delorean was still around and the Nickel mining implications of that!
Im all for any debate but lets atleast try to remain objective.
You appeared to be commenting based on subjective ideas in the face of emperical data?
To be fair you can see the proportions of emission output here on what is a modest 60k life and the differences in the Teal colour. The maintainace sees a big jump in some sections and the bullet point at the botton include batteries.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of the resources required to make anything and just cling on to the Clarkson hyperbole regarding nickel mining. Imagine if the Delorean was still around and the Nickel mining implications of that!
Im all for any debate but lets atleast try to remain objective.
Lanby said:
I wonder if the 'vehicle' lifespan happens to be the same as the batteries lifespan to skew the overall picture somewhat?
With a 100k/8 year warranty and the limited battery issues in the millions of Prius I doubt it.Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 14:27
Pixel Pusher said:
Supposing we all turned round and said, "OK, No using cars, no using planes, no emissions; Happy now"?
They'd st their pants.
I bet they would! They'd s
t their pants.Then the gov would have to put income tax (or/and others) up to off set the loss but it would be fun to see the politicians squirm
JonnyVTEC said:
Let me suggest then that its a lot faster than the basic model! Faster than than the TDV8 without needing a V8 under the bonnet.
Those comparisons of the Prius are wrong. Total life even on 60k miles is less for HC, CO2 and NOx than a typical petrol car.
Who might JonnyVTEC be? Are you in 540 or 523?Those comparisons of the Prius are wrong. Total life even on 60k miles is less for HC, CO2 and NOx than a typical petrol car.
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 12:49
JonnyVTEC said:
Im not really sure what you post is trying to say. What exactly did you want in response to your question?!
You appeared to be commenting based on subjective ideas in the face of emperical data?
To be fair you can see the proportions of emission output here on what is a modest 60k life and the differences in the Teal colour. The maintainace sees a big jump in some sections and the bullet point at the botton include batteries.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of the resources required to make anything and just cling on to the Clarkson hyperbole regarding nickel mining. Imagine if the Delorean was still around and the Nickel mining implications of that!
Im all for any debate but lets atleast try to remain objective.
"In the face of empirical data" - I think you are a little naive if you believe certain tests aren't rigged from the outset and therefore all claimed 'empirical' data from said tests is worthless for anything other than marketing.You appeared to be commenting based on subjective ideas in the face of emperical data?
To be fair you can see the proportions of emission output here on what is a modest 60k life and the differences in the Teal colour. The maintainace sees a big jump in some sections and the bullet point at the botton include batteries.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of the resources required to make anything and just cling on to the Clarkson hyperbole regarding nickel mining. Imagine if the Delorean was still around and the Nickel mining implications of that!
Im all for any debate but lets atleast try to remain objective.
Lanby said:
I wonder if the 'vehicle' lifespan happens to be the same as the batteries lifespan to skew the overall picture somewhat?
With a 100k/8 year warranty and the limited battery issues in the millions of Prius I doubt it.Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 14:27
I did though want to hear exactly what you said, somebody somewhere decided the lifespan of a car (for this test) is 10 years and 100,000km, I just wonder why they picked these figures - to skew the results in favour of the Prius maybe?
What happens if the mileage/age is increased to something more sensible for an expected vehicle 'life', do the correlations stay similar?
My comment regarding engine size was meant as - why not compare like for like as surely the larger engine will produce more emissions - again to favour the Prius maybe?
Regarding the batteries, I wonder what percentage of the production figures of the whole vehicle the batteries represent.
What the charts do show very well is the real world minute difference in emissions between the two vehicles if you include the bigger picture, and whilst I agree with you most people do not seem to consider the manufacturing emissions in their calculations (just like the reports never seem to include any emissions in the generation of mains electricity to charge electric vehicles) they do think that by buying a new, slightly more fuel efficient vehicle every few years they are doing the planet a favour!
Anyway back on topic, I'd have the Range Rover.
Cant really argue with your reply there, your initial post drew me towards a typical comments seen on these sort of vehicles.
A 2.0 is used for comparison as the hybrid system is a engine down sizing enabler, much like this range_e. Personally i think the short life favours the typical car, a longer life means the manufacturing is proportionally less and a bigger difference is seen from the usage emissions. Although regarding EV, we also dont include fuel 'creation' emissions on ICE cars.
I drove a RRS TDV8 on Tuesday, very impressive car, prefered it the wallowy FFRR.
A 2.0 is used for comparison as the hybrid system is a engine down sizing enabler, much like this range_e. Personally i think the short life favours the typical car, a longer life means the manufacturing is proportionally less and a bigger difference is seen from the usage emissions. Although regarding EV, we also dont include fuel 'creation' emissions on ICE cars.
I drove a RRS TDV8 on Tuesday, very impressive car, prefered it the wallowy FFRR.
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 23:51
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 18th February 23:53
By 'down size enabler' do you mean that instead of promoting the extra power or performance of the same size engine they say to get the equivalent to a 2.0l you would only need a 1.5l Prius?
I bloody hope not as that means smaller and smaller engines in the future instead of faster and faster
What is an ICE car?
I bloody hope not as that means smaller and smaller engines in the future instead of faster and faster
What is an ICE car?
Edited by Lanby on Saturday 19th February 00:37
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