RE: BMW M unveils standalone 750hp XM
Discussion
Bangle moved the design language on.
As uncomfortable as it was, and as handsome as the E38 & E39 were, BMW had refined that design language to it’s conclusion.
The ‘flame surfacing’ of the Bangle cars was retained in the Hooydonk era with the F series cars.
The initial shock of the E60 reigned in & made handsome by the F10 for instance.
I’m not sure this is what this is.
With the big grille & weird rear 3/4 thing afflicting all products launced since the G30 5 series BMW appear to be going more for ‘discordant ’ and ‘arresting’ than handsome or pretty.
As uncomfortable as it was, and as handsome as the E38 & E39 were, BMW had refined that design language to it’s conclusion.
The ‘flame surfacing’ of the Bangle cars was retained in the Hooydonk era with the F series cars.
The initial shock of the E60 reigned in & made handsome by the F10 for instance.
I’m not sure this is what this is.
With the big grille & weird rear 3/4 thing afflicting all products launced since the G30 5 series BMW appear to be going more for ‘discordant ’ and ‘arresting’ than handsome or pretty.
Largechris said:
F1GTRUeno said:
Largechris said:
Commercially, it’s very hard to understand the whole BMW ethos.
They design cars they think people will buy and people are undoubtedly buying them. Not hard at all.Stick Legs said:
bolidemichael said:
Given his own car history is wilfully quirky and design led I suspect the shouty-ness of this would be ridiculed.
johnathanmeades said:
Cars can be as beautifully designed as a Soane building. The Citroen DS, the post-war Bristols or the early E-type Jags were absolutely wonderful. But you can see why they looked better and why designers were given their head in a way that they're not now. Up until the Mini, cars were luxury items and motoring was a pleasure, rather than a chore. So beauty was much more important than reliability - those lovely cars weren't as reliable as a Ford Escort.
Motoring was something you indulged yourself in; it wasn't just a question of sitting in a traffic jam. And everything was designed around that - the roadhouses of the 1930s, the pubs built for motorists, even the garages were more beautiful. All the garages now come out of a mould - literally, in that golden age, you had garages with curiously kitsch hairdressers' thatch, or garages made to look like Wild West saloons..
…I like those Alfa Romeos - the ones driven by Sicilian policemen - and I like Renault Lagunas. But I don't drive this Citroen - faute de mieux. It's my ideal car. I'll drive it into the ground.
Motoring was something you indulged yourself in; it wasn't just a question of sitting in a traffic jam. And everything was designed around that - the roadhouses of the 1930s, the pubs built for motorists, even the garages were more beautiful. All the garages now come out of a mould - literally, in that golden age, you had garages with curiously kitsch hairdressers' thatch, or garages made to look like Wild West saloons..
…I like those Alfa Romeos - the ones driven by Sicilian policemen - and I like Renault Lagunas. But I don't drive this Citroen - faute de mieux. It's my ideal car. I'll drive it into the ground.
Wills2 said:
Where are you seeing the data that shows a dramatic decline in BMWs market share compared to Audi & Merc?
He isn't... https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...LuS1fer said:
Wills2 said:
Where are you seeing the data that shows a dramatic decline in BMWs market share compared to Audi & Merc?
He isn't... https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...Largechris said:
LuS1fer said:
Wills2 said:
Where are you seeing the data that shows a dramatic decline in BMWs market share compared to Audi & Merc?
He isn't... https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...ExecutiveAction said:
When I read this, my first thought was, is this guy for real or is this a pisstake.
I’m not taking the piss. I love it. Honestly think it’s one of the best car designs I have seen in ages. Can’t remember the last time I liked something so much, probably was the Alfa Romeo GTV (1996 to 2004). Honestly think both these cars could end up as classic design icons 50 years down the road.Edited by ExecutiveAction on Saturday 4th December 23:40
Not sure if you ever go to art galleries, see contemporary dance etc but these sorts of ideas have been around in the arts world for a long time.
And like I said before, BMW don’t expect to sell many of these, just act as a halo for their regular products, make edgy details on more conventional designs more acceptable. Fashion has done this sort of thing for ages.
Edited by wyson on Monday 6th December 10:19
LuS1fer said:
Largechris said:
LuS1fer said:
Wills2 said:
Where are you seeing the data that shows a dramatic decline in BMWs market share compared to Audi & Merc?
He isn't... https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...bolidemichael said:
LuS1fer said:
Largechris said:
LuS1fer said:
Wills2 said:
Where are you seeing the data that shows a dramatic decline in BMWs market share compared to Audi & Merc?
He isn't... https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...As is shown on those figures, the A class vastly outsells the 1 series, we can pick and choose other sectors but I would imagine the E class outsells the 5 series by a lot as well.
Anyway, this discussion was about me. And I'm not buying a BMW. Because of the styling.
Prohibiting said:
Some sublime designs there but these 2 are an absolute, unforgivable disaster (the E60 is pretty gash too but at least it doesn't even look like it's trying). Ignoring the whole grille thing on the first car, whatever it is (I don't even care) the area round the A pillar, mirror and front arch is a horrific mess on an otherwise totally bland blancmange of a design. On the second car the way the rear arch flairs out from what looks like a standard door just looks like a tragic aftermarket kit, as does the entire front of the car. I can barely even bring myself to read the reviews about how, undoubtedly, brilliant they are to drive. Sad.Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th December 16:45
CraigyMc said:
Spiros115 said:
This is completely on point for BMWs current strategy, and as a marketeer I admire the unrelenting backing of such a "controversial" approach. But it's only controversial to the audience it isnt for, i.e. fans of manual gearboxes, lightweight cars, who long for the past and bemoan the future, discuss tyre brands and refer to cars by manufacture model generation codes, i.e. virtually everyone on here. The fact this article has the most comments since the last BMW beaver grill was unveiled says they are smashing their objectives.
The current crop of uber rich, Insta loving Gen Zers arent bothered about fuel injectors, dry sumps or beautifully restrained design. The world now deals in extremes where middle of the road, balance, context, even logic dont provoke emotion, get no air time and so are basically worthless when the key currencies are followers, likes, views and shares.
In this regard this car is almost perfect; it's extreme, different, plush and no doubt obscenely expensive, it's made to fill influencer accounts with bags of social cash.
It's no surprise that the 5 series is now BMWs most restrained (and in my eyes best) looking car, followed by the 3. These are always going to be moved at a slower pace allowing the nay-sayers (loyalists) time to get used to design development but they aren't headline grabbing.
My only surprise with the XM is that it isnt fully electric, and I think that in part makes the design need to be even more radical to mask the fact the power train is already out of date.
Oh and I actually think that interior is the best BMW have produced (dodgy finishes aside), the widescreen curved screen approach is the most user friendly IMO (give me that over the merc and tesla uber screens anyday) and retaining idrive is essential, but BMW have always had the most logical layouts, now the end result has wow factor too, at least that design philosophy has some generational cross over!
Still after having 4 BMWs in a row, and having bought no other brand since my first post-uni paycheck, I am personally just not a fan of their direction, the customary utter rubbish advertising that accompanies it, or their lack of attention to the models I am interested in; a facelifted and handsome 5 series doesnt disguise the fact the interior is a generation behind, the 330e is brilliant with charge and infuriating without and the ix3 is a hopelessly inadequate stop gap bodge job, and so for the first time ever I have just ordered elsewhere....
This post smacks of "there's no such thing as bad coverage".The current crop of uber rich, Insta loving Gen Zers arent bothered about fuel injectors, dry sumps or beautifully restrained design. The world now deals in extremes where middle of the road, balance, context, even logic dont provoke emotion, get no air time and so are basically worthless when the key currencies are followers, likes, views and shares.
In this regard this car is almost perfect; it's extreme, different, plush and no doubt obscenely expensive, it's made to fill influencer accounts with bags of social cash.
It's no surprise that the 5 series is now BMWs most restrained (and in my eyes best) looking car, followed by the 3. These are always going to be moved at a slower pace allowing the nay-sayers (loyalists) time to get used to design development but they aren't headline grabbing.
My only surprise with the XM is that it isnt fully electric, and I think that in part makes the design need to be even more radical to mask the fact the power train is already out of date.
Oh and I actually think that interior is the best BMW have produced (dodgy finishes aside), the widescreen curved screen approach is the most user friendly IMO (give me that over the merc and tesla uber screens anyday) and retaining idrive is essential, but BMW have always had the most logical layouts, now the end result has wow factor too, at least that design philosophy has some generational cross over!
Still after having 4 BMWs in a row, and having bought no other brand since my first post-uni paycheck, I am personally just not a fan of their direction, the customary utter rubbish advertising that accompanies it, or their lack of attention to the models I am interested in; a facelifted and handsome 5 series doesnt disguise the fact the interior is a generation behind, the 330e is brilliant with charge and infuriating without and the ix3 is a hopelessly inadequate stop gap bodge job, and so for the first time ever I have just ordered elsewhere....
The problem I have with it is that there is such a thing as "pulling a Ratner" -- the opposite of a halo effect exists in the form of a haemorrhoid cushion shaped like this BMW.
Alienating the existing customer base while trying to obtain another is doomed in that churn isn't growth.
Edited to add:
Toyota made the GR Yaris. For non-enthusiasts it doesn't exist, so harms nothing. For enthusiasts, it shows Toyota are serious about making good cars again.
BMW could have made this catastrophe and called it something other than an M car. It would still have hit the same mark it does now with non-enthusiasts without alienating us.
Meanwhile BMW M could have given us something like a new M1 (something i8 shaped, maybe) or something else to celebrate 50 years.
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 3rd December 13:24
This is precisely the problem with people these days, far too willing to blow up and shout down others ideas without bothering to understand the full picture....
Spiros115 said:
CraigyMc said:
Spiros115 said:
This is completely on point for BMWs current strategy, and as a marketeer I admire the unrelenting backing of such a "controversial" approach. But it's only controversial to the audience it isnt for, i.e. fans of manual gearboxes, lightweight cars, who long for the past and bemoan the future, discuss tyre brands and refer to cars by manufacture model generation codes, i.e. virtually everyone on here. The fact this article has the most comments since the last BMW beaver grill was unveiled says they are smashing their objectives.
The current crop of uber rich, Insta loving Gen Zers arent bothered about fuel injectors, dry sumps or beautifully restrained design. The world now deals in extremes where middle of the road, balance, context, even logic dont provoke emotion, get no air time and so are basically worthless when the key currencies are followers, likes, views and shares.
In this regard this car is almost perfect; it's extreme, different, plush and no doubt obscenely expensive, it's made to fill influencer accounts with bags of social cash.
It's no surprise that the 5 series is now BMWs most restrained (and in my eyes best) looking car, followed by the 3. These are always going to be moved at a slower pace allowing the nay-sayers (loyalists) time to get used to design development but they aren't headline grabbing.
My only surprise with the XM is that it isnt fully electric, and I think that in part makes the design need to be even more radical to mask the fact the power train is already out of date.
Oh and I actually think that interior is the best BMW have produced (dodgy finishes aside), the widescreen curved screen approach is the most user friendly IMO (give me that over the merc and tesla uber screens anyday) and retaining idrive is essential, but BMW have always had the most logical layouts, now the end result has wow factor too, at least that design philosophy has some generational cross over!
Still after having 4 BMWs in a row, and having bought no other brand since my first post-uni paycheck, I am personally just not a fan of their direction, the customary utter rubbish advertising that accompanies it, or their lack of attention to the models I am interested in; a facelifted and handsome 5 series doesnt disguise the fact the interior is a generation behind, the 330e is brilliant with charge and infuriating without and the ix3 is a hopelessly inadequate stop gap bodge job, and so for the first time ever I have just ordered elsewhere....
This post smacks of "there's no such thing as bad coverage".The current crop of uber rich, Insta loving Gen Zers arent bothered about fuel injectors, dry sumps or beautifully restrained design. The world now deals in extremes where middle of the road, balance, context, even logic dont provoke emotion, get no air time and so are basically worthless when the key currencies are followers, likes, views and shares.
In this regard this car is almost perfect; it's extreme, different, plush and no doubt obscenely expensive, it's made to fill influencer accounts with bags of social cash.
It's no surprise that the 5 series is now BMWs most restrained (and in my eyes best) looking car, followed by the 3. These are always going to be moved at a slower pace allowing the nay-sayers (loyalists) time to get used to design development but they aren't headline grabbing.
My only surprise with the XM is that it isnt fully electric, and I think that in part makes the design need to be even more radical to mask the fact the power train is already out of date.
Oh and I actually think that interior is the best BMW have produced (dodgy finishes aside), the widescreen curved screen approach is the most user friendly IMO (give me that over the merc and tesla uber screens anyday) and retaining idrive is essential, but BMW have always had the most logical layouts, now the end result has wow factor too, at least that design philosophy has some generational cross over!
Still after having 4 BMWs in a row, and having bought no other brand since my first post-uni paycheck, I am personally just not a fan of their direction, the customary utter rubbish advertising that accompanies it, or their lack of attention to the models I am interested in; a facelifted and handsome 5 series doesnt disguise the fact the interior is a generation behind, the 330e is brilliant with charge and infuriating without and the ix3 is a hopelessly inadequate stop gap bodge job, and so for the first time ever I have just ordered elsewhere....
The problem I have with it is that there is such a thing as "pulling a Ratner" -- the opposite of a halo effect exists in the form of a haemorrhoid cushion shaped like this BMW.
Alienating the existing customer base while trying to obtain another is doomed in that churn isn't growth.
Edited to add:
Toyota made the GR Yaris. For non-enthusiasts it doesn't exist, so harms nothing. For enthusiasts, it shows Toyota are serious about making good cars again.
BMW could have made this catastrophe and called it something other than an M car. It would still have hit the same mark it does now with non-enthusiasts without alienating us.
Meanwhile BMW M could have given us something like a new M1 (something i8 shaped, maybe) or something else to celebrate 50 years.
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 3rd December 13:24
This is precisely the problem with people these days, far too willing to blow up and shout down others ideas without bothering to understand the full picture....
It is, after all, an opinion forum.
Can't believe you have a problem with that.
Deranged Rover said:
My initial reaction was also to agree with those saying its existence is fair enough but that it shouldn't be an 'M' car. However as I've said before on here, the existence of the likes of the M318d made a joke of the 'M' badge years ago.
Was there ever an M318d? There are / have been numerous 318d M Sports…M Sport is just a trim level these days. No different to Audi’s S Line or Mercedes AMG line, hell even Hyundai will sell you an N Line trim car these days.MikeM6 said:
Not sure the outcry was that bad for Bangle cars, they were controversial but at least they were still exciting cars, especially with the naturally aspirated engines they were using at the time. They at least were sporting cars designed to be fun to drive.
I agree, the Bangle era may not have been loved at the time, but it wasn’t as hated as the current cars they’re churning out.Court_S said:
I agree, the Bangle era may not have been loved at the time, but it wasn’t as hated as the current cars they’re churning out.
I don't know, I think there was a similar amount of uproar going from the nice clean traditional lines of the old era BMWs to the Bangle era.These days the Bangle stuff seems to have aged well, but perhaps they just raised the bar for ugly
Court_S said:
Deranged Rover said:
My initial reaction was also to agree with those saying its existence is fair enough but that it shouldn't be an 'M' car. However as I've said before on here, the existence of the likes of the M318d made a joke of the 'M' badge years ago.
Was there ever an M318d? There are / have been numerous 318d M Sports…M Sport is just a trim level these days. No different to Audi’s S Line or Mercedes AMG line, hell even Hyundai will sell you an N Line trim car these days.MikeM6 said:
Not sure the outcry was that bad for Bangle cars, they were controversial but at least they were still exciting cars, especially with the naturally aspirated engines they were using at the time. They at least were sporting cars designed to be fun to drive.
I agree, the Bangle era may not have been loved at the time, but it wasn’t as hated as the current cars they’re churning out.swisstoni said:
We’re you around at the time?
I was!The main problem comparing reactions in 2003 to those in 2021 is that most of us will remember print/TV reviews (which tend to be quite measured/muted) from 2003, whereas in 2021 it's all internet shouting.
Looking back on some old TV reviews there was some affected "woah, this is different" shtick, a bit of "big ar$e" and "rather awkward" but nothing more bilious than that.
My father got a 525d touring in 2004 and it scarcely entered my (23 year old car enthusiast) head that it was something radical.
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