SUV driver attempts to kill cyclist, smashes into salon

[oyster]

heebeegeetee said:

Gaz. said:

You can't go on about others risking the safety of others if you are also choosing to risk your safety by RLJ. RLJ by any road user is bloody stupid, infuriating and can have grave consequences for both parties.

It's not really. Apart from the sheer amount of time we all might spend at red lights for traffic lights that either need not be there at all or need not be switched on at that time - a cyclist can cross the lights if he jumps off and runs across wheeling his bike, so why worry if he stays on the bike?

You can end up wasting a heck of a long time sat at red lights when there's nothing else about, and whilst I may rarely do so, I don't see how it is dangerous to cross red lights at deserted junctions.

I don't care if it's not dangerous - it's the law applied to the road on which I want to travel. That's why I stop at lights. I give people space if they need it and I show them respect on the roads.

However, get dangerously close and I will bang on your car (albeit with soft-gloved, non-scratching hands!).

[heebeegeetee]

oyster said:

I don't care if it's not dangerous - it's the law applied to the road on which I want to travel. That's why I stop at lights. I give people space if they need it and I show them respect on the roads.

However, get dangerously close and I will bang on your car (albeit with soft-gloved, non-scratching hands!).

Nah, this is all hogwash. I bet you park on pavements, I bet you break speed limits, apart from banging on people's cars which must be breaking some kind of law, shirley?

When sat at a red light at a deserted junction it can be hard to find someone to show respect too.

[Mave]

0markymark0 said:

Thing is, what real harm comes form cyclists breaking the law? Can you show me some actual stats of the damage/injury they actually cause to see whether it's worth worrying about?

The real harm is what it's doing to the image of cyclists. By appearing to consider yourself above the law, you've instantly given up your right to expect others to obey the law. So a motorist gets to defend a close pass in the same way you get to defend a RLJ.

[WinstonWolf]

Mave said:

0markymark0 said:

Thing is, what real harm comes form cyclists breaking the law? Can you show me some actual stats of the damage/injury they actually cause to see whether it's worth worrying about?

The real harm is what it's doing to the image of cyclists. By appearing to consider yourself above the law, you've instantly given up your right to expect others to obey the law. So a motorist gets to defend a close pass in the same way you get to defend a RLJ.

Not really, an empty RLJ poses no danger to anyone, a close pass does.

[snoopy25]

Today for example:

Heading up towards Kings College Hospital in London going up the hill. Several Cyclist coming down my side of the road have the audacity to think I shouldnt be were I am....errrr this is my side of the road.....I come to a stop and then im told to 'get out of the f***ing way' as they cycle past.

I beg your pardon? were you not on my side of the road going to fast to stop?! As soon as i got out of my car matey boy didnt want a discussion and scarpered very quickly. I wasnt looking for a fight or anything i wanted to know why he genuinely believed he had right of way on my side of the friggin' road!

Honestly getting sick and tired of the cyclist/motorbike brigade always thinking they are in the right. Every day now turns into an avoidance exercise of cyclists on my way out of London to Croydon as they believe none of the rules of the road apply to them. Redlights, Zebra crossings roundabouts....nothing applys to them. The cyclists who still continue to ride through crowds of people crossing like they own the place.....cyclist who go up the insides of buses and huge trucks and then moan when the bus/truck wants to turn left and they cant see them.....

Dont get me wrong there are some very decent riders who do obey the rules of the road and i honestly dont have any argument with them at all. But in my opinion, especially in London, it seems this is very few and far between.........

[Mave]

WinstonWolf said:

Not really, an empty RLJ poses no danger to anyone, a close pass does.

In your opinion it poses no danger, and you're probably right. But you are using your opinion to justify breaking the law. So to avoid being hypocritical you then must allow motorists to break the law if they feel it is justified. Including their judgement of what constitutes a decent passing clearance which may be less than we feel is safe.

[heebeegeetee]

Mave said:

The real harm is what it's doing to the image of cyclists. By appearing to consider yourself above the law, you've instantly given up your right to expect others to obey the law. So a motorist gets to defend a close pass in the same way you get to defend a RLJ.

Presumably those 'others' are the motorists going through red and amber stop lights, in similar numbers to cyclists?

[Mave]

heebeegeetee said:

Presumably those 'others' are the motorists going through red and amber stop lights, in similar numbers to cyclists?

Yep. How can we complain about the law breaking behaviour of some motorists whilst condoning the law breaking behaviour of some cyclists?

[Mr2Mike]

heebeegeetee said:

Presumably those 'others' are the motorists going through red and amber stop lights, in similar numbers to cyclists?

Where did you get those stats? Vastly more cyclists run red lights than cars IME, and they blatantly run lights that have been red for some time. Cars that run red lights are most often the ones trying to get through on amber (not that this excuses their behavior).

EDIT:
A quarter of cyclists believe it's acceptable to run red lights. Do you think a quarter of car drivers believe the same?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 1st July 18:47

[Mave]

Mr2Mike said:

heebeegeetee said:

Presumably those 'others' are the motorists going through red and amber stop lights, in similar numbers to cyclists?

Where did you get those stats? Vastly more cyclists run red lights than cars IME, and they blatantly run lights that have been red for some time. Cars that run red lights are most often the ones trying to get through on amber (not that this excuses their behavior).

EDIT:
A quarter of cyclists believe it's acceptable to run red lights. Do you think a quarter of car drivers believe the same?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 1st July 18:47

That report those statistics come from also says 32% of motorists admit to jumping red lights....

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2...

[heebeegeetee]

Mr2Mike said:

Where did you get those stats? Vastly more cyclists run red lights than cars IME, and they blatantly run lights that have been red for some time. Cars that run red lights are most often the ones trying to get through on amber (not that this excuses their behavior).

EDIT:
A quarter of cyclists believe it's acceptable to run red lights. Do you think a quarter of car drivers believe the same?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 1st July 18:47

Well, overall 87% of those cyclists will be motorists, outside of London it'll be much nearer to 100% so yes, I do.

[heebeegeetee]

Mave said:

Yep. How can we complain about the law breaking behaviour of some motorists whilst condoning the law breaking behaviour of some cyclists?

'Some' motorists? Try virtually all motorists. Try and find a motorist who condemns parking on the pavement.

[WinstonWolf]

doogz said:

WinstonWolf said:

Not really, an empty RLJ poses no danger to anyone, a close pass does.

RLJ poses no danger, if the road really is clear for them to cross.

In the same way that a close pass poses no danger if no-one hits anyone else.

How close would you pass a drunk stood in the road?

[Mave]

heebeegeetee said:

Mave said:

Yep. How can we complain about the law breaking behaviour of some motorists whilst condoning the law breaking behaviour of some cyclists?

'Some' motorists? Try virtually all motorists. Try and find a motorist who condemns parking on the pavement.

It doesn't matter whether its "some" or "all". If you condone a behaviour, surely you condone it for everyone. So my question still stands; how can we complain about motorists breaking the law whilst condoning cyclists breaking the law?

[anonymous-user]

Mave said:

It doesn't matter whether its "some" or "all". If you condone a behaviour, surely you condone it for everyone. So my question still stands; how can we complain about motorists breaking the law whilst condoning cyclists breaking the law?

You can't.

But most anti cycling motorists are total hypocrites.

[Mave]

yonex said:

Mave said:

It doesn't matter whether its "some" or "all". If you condone a behaviour, surely you condone it for everyone. So my question still stands; how can we complain about motorists breaking the law whilst condoning cyclists breaking the law?

You can't.

But most anti cycling motorists are total hypocrites.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we should be hypocrites as well! People who are condoning RLJ on bikes are just making all of us look bad and keep providing ammunition to keep the anti-cyclists complaining.

[WinstonWolf]

Mave said:

yonex said:

Mave said:

It doesn't matter whether its "some" or "all". If you condone a behaviour, surely you condone it for everyone. So my question still stands; how can we complain about motorists breaking the law whilst condoning cyclists breaking the law?

You can't.

But most anti cycling motorists are total hypocrites.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we should be hypocrites as well! People who are condoning RLJ on bikes are just making all of us look bad and keep providing ammunition to keep the anti-cyclists complaining.

They'll do that regardless...

[Steve vRS]

As a cyclist I firmly follow the protocol that if I want to behave like traffic, I should behave like traffic. Well like good traffic anyway.

Steve

[Mave]

WinstonWolf said:

Mave said:

yonex said:

Mave said:

It doesn't matter whether its "some" or "all". If you condone a behaviour, surely you condone it for everyone. So my question still stands; how can we complain about motorists breaking the law whilst condoning cyclists breaking the law?

You can't.

But most anti cycling motorists are total hypocrites.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we should be hypocrites as well! People who are condoning RLJ on bikes are just making all of us look bad and keep providing ammunition to keep the anti-cyclists complaining.

They'll do that regardless...

Maybe, maybe not. But being hypocritical in an arguement isn't a debate or a discussion, its just mud slinging round and round in circles, and will never have any positive outcome.

[Dammit]

snoopy25 said:

Today for example:

Heading up towards Kings College Hospital in London going up the hill. Several Cyclist coming down my side of the road have the audacity to think I shouldnt be were I am....errrr this is my side of the road.....I come to a stop and then im told to 'get out of the f***ing way' as they cycle past.

I beg your pardon? were you not on my side of the road going to fast to stop?! As soon as i got out of my car matey boy didnt want a discussion and scarpered very quickly. I wasnt looking for a fight or anything i wanted to know why he genuinely believed he had right of way on my side of the friggin' road!

Honestly getting sick and tired of the cyclist/motorbike brigade always thinking they are in the right. Every day now turns into an avoidance exercise of cyclists on my way out of London to Croydon as they believe none of the rules of the road apply to them. Redlights, Zebra crossings roundabouts....nothing applys to them. The cyclists who still continue to ride through crowds of people crossing like they own the place.....cyclist who go up the insides of buses and huge trucks and then moan when the bus/truck wants to turn left and they cant see them.....

Dont get me wrong there are some very decent riders who do obey the rules of the road and i honestly dont have any argument with them at all. But in my opinion, especially in London, it seems this is very few and far between.........

"Blah blah blah some of my best friends are cyclists"?