Advantages of 4WD on ordinary saloons?
Discussion
yonex said:
No, I think you haven't driven many decent cars, I know you haven't driven on winter tyres and I am sure not in serious snow. Look at my car ownership before you start making yourself look daft.
I have owned a CL55AMG, amongst others 
- car ownership or time on Ph doesnt give right to take the throne to being the answer to all of lifes automotive issues, which is what I get the impression by many on here.I havent driven on winter tyres? and...? your problem is? I said many time I managed just absolutely dandy on all season tyres in the best from the east (and evidently better than motorists down south) when mostly everyone else was crashing and costing insurance £600mn - once we get some actual snow I may well get real winter tyres (shock, horror!)
anything else I can help with?
https://insuranceday.maritimeintelligence.informa....
InitialDave said:
ericmcn said:
AWD systems send power to all 4 wheels differently as you know even with auto and manual legacies.
Yes, I do know.A major difference between you and I is that I've driven several of them, and so my opinion on what that "differently" equates to is based on something more than ctrl+c/ctrl+v action on other people's writings.
Some of these people consider Subaru's "50:50" setup to be the best, I don't dispute that they do - but I disagree, and I'm completely happy to have the stand-up argument with them about it, on the basis of having owned/driven a s
tload of the alternatives.My opinion is that a RWD-biased setup which feeds in front drive as the rear end loosens up is the optimum AWD system for someone who isn't a monkey brought up on FWD stuff, but true (locked out) 50:50 in a very, very light (approx 3/4 ton) car will eat its lunch in truly slippery conditions, assuming equivalent tyres, and some form of active/locking/limted slip diff on the front and rear axles simply demolishes stuff lacking that when the going gets truly difficult.
Edited by InitialDave on Friday 19th October 23:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGhnPCaLYU
Mr Tidy said:
You're raving about a Legacy Spec B - so why do you quote the 0-60 time of a WRX Sti?
Is it maybe because according to Autocar magazine the quoted 0-60 time for the Legacy Spec B was 6.5s for the saloon and 6.6s for the Estate? That looks pretty pedestrian compared to the other cars you've quoted.
I am putting things in perspective, another poster said the BRZ was equal (ish) in performance to a SpecB but in reality about 1.4 seconds slower than a SpecB in the same way the quoted cars are about the same time quicker to that benchmark, so the question is how critical is 1.3 or 1.4 seconds...Is it maybe because according to Autocar magazine the quoted 0-60 time for the Legacy Spec B was 6.5s for the saloon and 6.6s for the Estate? That looks pretty pedestrian compared to the other cars you've quoted.
if you have cars that can do 60 in 4 seconds or so, then that is blistering performance but 5 odd seconds is only a second and a bit better off to a Subaru Legacy and once they are mapped for high octane fuel the 6.5s is further reduced, so how fast is a second and a bit.....
ericmcn said:
I have owned a CL55AMG, amongst others - car ownership or time on Ph doesnt give right to take the throne to being the answer to all of lifes automotive issues, which is what I get the impression by many on here.
I havent driven on winter tyres? and...? your problem is? I said many time I managed just absolutely dandy on all season tyres in the best from the east (and evidently better than motorists down south) when mostly everyone else was crashing and costing insurance £600mn - once we get some actual snow I may well get real winter tyres (shock, horror!)
anything else I can help with?
https://insuranceday.maritimeintelligence.informa....
Well you could try some winter tyres and stop quoting accident statistics to back up your views, which comes from a position of zero experience? - car ownership or time on Ph doesnt give right to take the throne to being the answer to all of lifes automotive issues, which is what I get the impression by many on here.I havent driven on winter tyres? and...? your problem is? I said many time I managed just absolutely dandy on all season tyres in the best from the east (and evidently better than motorists down south) when mostly everyone else was crashing and costing insurance £600mn - once we get some actual snow I may well get real winter tyres (shock, horror!)
anything else I can help with?
https://insuranceday.maritimeintelligence.informa....
yonex said:
Not forgetting the N52 is pretty bombproof compared the 20mpg grenade fitted to the Subaru 
around town perhaps, but mixed driving sees (slightly!) better figures - besides its a peach of an engine and not at all stressed so 100k on these things and they are running like new - if you feel the need for more oomph you could spend 3k or so on a SC kit. 
ericmcn said:
I havent driven on winter tyres? and...? your problem is? I said many time I managed just absolutely dandy on all season tyres in the best from the east
Earlier you were claiming that your car had summer tyres fitted. Now you say that you had all season tyres? Do you just make things up as you go along? The facts don't matter so long as the answer is "Subaru"?ericmcn said:
its pretty common knowledge, however without winter tyres a AWD still handles better in all conditions over a FWD/RDW with similar tyres
ericmcn said:
ALL-WHEEL DRIVE:
Disadvantages
With an extra axle to drive, the additional differential and pair of half-shafts makes a four-wheel drive system heavier than two-wheel drive systems and this will have an effect on fuel consumption and possibly handling.
So which is it Eric ? Does 4wd make a car handle better or possibly have an effect on handling ? Surely it can't be both. Disadvantages
With an extra axle to drive, the additional differential and pair of half-shafts makes a four-wheel drive system heavier than two-wheel drive systems and this will have an effect on fuel consumption and possibly handling.
another German favourite, the Golf R with DSG
Cant cope with 'real' AWD and a proper manual box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTjggB2S5M
Cant cope with 'real' AWD and a proper manual box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTjggB2S5M
ericmcn said:
not really tbh, seen / read crap load of BMW crashes in England also, hardly surprising. Look at Nürburgring fantastic handling clearly evident all round.
It would be good to hear what direct Nurburgring experience you have beyond Youtube, did you actually drive it ? I am no expert there as I have only done around 250 laps or so over the years but non-4wd cars seem to do OK there. No worse than 4wd cars.Quite surprising to see a Subaru crash at Schwedenkreuz, I thought their superior handling would have prevented that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV178PD8w9E
Good to see that both the CTR and M3 behind it were able to safely avoid it, despite the lack of 4wd.
ericmcn said:
nickfrog said:
So which is it Eric ? Does 4wd make a car handle better or possibly have an effect on handling ? Surely it can't be both.
traction / handling - look at the video above, and the WRX has turbo lag and still was faster than the GolfQUOTE 1
ericmcn said:
its pretty common knowledge, however without winter tyres a AWD still handles better in all conditions over a FWD/RDW with similar tyres
QUOTE 2ericmcn said:
ALL-WHEEL DRIVE:
Disadvantages
With an extra axle to drive, the additional differential and pair of half-shafts makes a four-wheel drive system heavier than two-wheel drive systems and this will have an effect on fuel consumption and possibly handling.
Which is it ? Better or possibly not ? (they are your quotes so you can decide between 1 or 2).Disadvantages
With an extra axle to drive, the additional differential and pair of half-shafts makes a four-wheel drive system heavier than two-wheel drive systems and this will have an effect on fuel consumption and possibly handling.
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