RE: TVR's new owner: PH Meets
Discussion
Hey the news that Les Edgar has bought TVR is just great. He is clearly not the kind of guy who fails at anything
He just needs the right partner:
A company with technical expertise probably a consultant to the auto industry
A company able to do design, development and small scale production
A company with management expertise in operations and marketing and the ability to make a small car company profitable based on its historic values.
A company with the knowledge and experience to use motorsport effectively
A company with factory capacity at the standard of an F1 team
Step forward Prodrive – Les already has David Richard’s number in his ‘phone!
What sort of car?
I loved my Grantura,Vixens and S2 but they are not 21st century cars
I would go for an E-type equivalent. A sports car, drop dead gorgeous, fast and not stratospheric pricewise. The new F-type doesn’t cut it
Construction ?
Lightweight alloy tub and subframes front and rear
Composite body
Engine?
Can’t see Aston wanting to share. How about a turbo BMW mini engine?
Prodrive know all about it and echoes of the new Formula 1 .
Whatever I can’t wait to see what they come up with
He just needs the right partner:
A company with technical expertise probably a consultant to the auto industry
A company able to do design, development and small scale production
A company with management expertise in operations and marketing and the ability to make a small car company profitable based on its historic values.
A company with the knowledge and experience to use motorsport effectively
A company with factory capacity at the standard of an F1 team
Step forward Prodrive – Les already has David Richard’s number in his ‘phone!
What sort of car?
I loved my Grantura,Vixens and S2 but they are not 21st century cars
I would go for an E-type equivalent. A sports car, drop dead gorgeous, fast and not stratospheric pricewise. The new F-type doesn’t cut it
Construction ?
Lightweight alloy tub and subframes front and rear
Composite body
Engine?
Can’t see Aston wanting to share. How about a turbo BMW mini engine?
Prodrive know all about it and echoes of the new Formula 1 .
Whatever I can’t wait to see what they come up with
1. Be realistic. Unless you have billions to spend, you aren't making the next E-Type.
2. 4-pot engine in a TVR? I don't think so. That market is nicely covered by Ginetta.
3. Be realistic. No exotic materials.
4. Remember you are selling to enthusiasts with a relatively ordinary income.
5. Be realistic.
Spot a theme? I have seen so many great ideas fall over because they just weren't practical. Kickstarter is full of them.
ETA: Things move on...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2011/mar/22...
2. 4-pot engine in a TVR? I don't think so. That market is nicely covered by Ginetta.
3. Be realistic. No exotic materials.
4. Remember you are selling to enthusiasts with a relatively ordinary income.
5. Be realistic.
Spot a theme? I have seen so many great ideas fall over because they just weren't practical. Kickstarter is full of them.
ETA: Things move on...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2011/mar/22...
gilduffy said:
He just needs the right partner:
A company with technical expertise probably a consultant to the auto industry
A company able to do design, development and small scale production
A company with management expertise in operations and marketing and the ability to make a small car company profitable based on its historic values.
A company with the knowledge and experience to use motorsport effectively
A company with factory capacity at the standard of an F1 team
Step forward Prodrive – Les already has David Richard’s number in his ‘phone!
What sort of car?
I loved my Grantura,Vixens and S2 but they are not 21st century cars
I would go for an E-type equivalent. A sports car, drop dead gorgeous, fast and not stratospheric pricewise. The new F-type doesn’t cut it
Construction ?
Lightweight alloy tub and subframes front and rear
Composite body
Engine?
Can’t see Aston wanting to share. How about a turbo BMW mini engine?
Prodrive know all about it and echoes of the new Formula 1.
I don't want to be confrontational, but the above is a recipe for disaster. Having worked with TWR (W, not V), ProDrive and other similar consultancy firms, I know how costly they are and it would bleed a small outfit dry. If Mr Edgar's plans are large enough to require a partner, then I'm afraid they are the wrong plans. What is needed is small team of experienced and talented engineers with a can-do attitude employed by TVR direct. However, I do agree that the new F-Type falls way short of the expectation its moniker carries and there is currently an opening in the market.A company with technical expertise probably a consultant to the auto industry
A company able to do design, development and small scale production
A company with management expertise in operations and marketing and the ability to make a small car company profitable based on its historic values.
A company with the knowledge and experience to use motorsport effectively
A company with factory capacity at the standard of an F1 team
Step forward Prodrive – Les already has David Richard’s number in his ‘phone!
What sort of car?
I loved my Grantura,Vixens and S2 but they are not 21st century cars
I would go for an E-type equivalent. A sports car, drop dead gorgeous, fast and not stratospheric pricewise. The new F-type doesn’t cut it
Construction ?
Lightweight alloy tub and subframes front and rear
Composite body
Engine?
Can’t see Aston wanting to share. How about a turbo BMW mini engine?
Prodrive know all about it and echoes of the new Formula 1.
In terms of the car, they need to stick with the tubular steel chassis and GRP shell in the short term. I personally would get one or two of the old models up an running with a standard Ford V8 powertrain and the quality issues addressed asap to get the cashflow started. Call these the "Phoenix" Limited edition cars if you like with special paint and trim etc etc. This would minimise the Engineering workload whilst the company was still teething. It would also buy time to develop a new "halo" model, again with Ford V8 to grab the headlines. After that, i would roll out a "bread and butter" car with a Ford V6, still keeping to the same format, which would be the volume seller. A four pot could be developed later, I love the idea of bringing back the Vixen name, but not initially as it would disrupt the DNA continuity. I also think its incredibly unlikely given the comments in the interview. Its not the most glamorous plan, but remember the key thing is to survive, not blow all the cash on a one special that never made it to production.
TVR, more than any other Low Volume manufacturer, got so may things right. The Styling, the sound, the modular construction, the surprise and delight interiors etc ect. It would be incredibly foolish to throw away that basic winning formula and try to compete with the likes of Aston, (who make little or no money by the way). I take my hat of to the man. He is taking a huge gamble with his own cash to keep TVR alive and for that we should all be very grateful indeed.
Jellinek said:
I don't want to be confrontational, but the above is a recipe for disaster. Having worked with TWR (W, not V), ProDrive and other similar consultancy firms, I know how costly they are and it would bleed a small outfit dry. If Mr Edgar's plans are large enough to require a partner, then I'm afraid they are the wrong plans. What is needed is small team of experienced and talented engineers with a can-do attitude employed by TVR direct. However, I do agree that the new F-Type falls way short of the expectation its moniker carries and there is currently an opening in the market.
In terms of the car, they need to stick with the tubular steel chassis and GRP shell in the short term. I personally would get one or two of the old models up an running with a standard Ford V8 powertrain and the quality issues addressed asap to get the cashflow started. Call these the "Phoenix" Limited edition cars if you like with special paint and trim etc etc. This would minimise the Engineering workload whilst the company was still teething. It would also buy time to develop a new "halo" model, again with Ford V8 to grab the headlines. After that, i would roll out a "bread and butter" car with a Ford V6, still keeping to the same format, which would be the volume seller. A four pot could be developed later, I love the idea of bringing back the Vixen name, but not initially as it would disrupt the DNA continuity. I also think its incredibly unlikely given the comments in the interview. Its not the most glamorous plan, but remember the key thing is to survive, not blow all the cash on a one special that never made it to production.
TVR, more than any other Low Volume manufacturer, got so may things right. The Styling, the sound, the modular construction, the surprise and delight interiors etc ect. It would be incredibly foolish to throw away that basic winning formula and try to compete with the likes of Aston, (who make little or no money by the way). I take my hat of to the man. He is taking a huge gamble with his own cash to keep TVR alive and for that we should all be very grateful indeed.
Spot on. Given that Chevy sell pretty much any part of a car you might want, I wander if Ford will sell the drivetrain of a mustang (rather than just the engine)? I had a mustang on hire for the weekend and was surprised at how civilized it was. I think Mustang underpinnings, especially given Ford's cheap mass produced approach, would be a simple fit.In terms of the car, they need to stick with the tubular steel chassis and GRP shell in the short term. I personally would get one or two of the old models up an running with a standard Ford V8 powertrain and the quality issues addressed asap to get the cashflow started. Call these the "Phoenix" Limited edition cars if you like with special paint and trim etc etc. This would minimise the Engineering workload whilst the company was still teething. It would also buy time to develop a new "halo" model, again with Ford V8 to grab the headlines. After that, i would roll out a "bread and butter" car with a Ford V6, still keeping to the same format, which would be the volume seller. A four pot could be developed later, I love the idea of bringing back the Vixen name, but not initially as it would disrupt the DNA continuity. I also think its incredibly unlikely given the comments in the interview. Its not the most glamorous plan, but remember the key thing is to survive, not blow all the cash on a one special that never made it to production.
TVR, more than any other Low Volume manufacturer, got so may things right. The Styling, the sound, the modular construction, the surprise and delight interiors etc ect. It would be incredibly foolish to throw away that basic winning formula and try to compete with the likes of Aston, (who make little or no money by the way). I take my hat of to the man. He is taking a huge gamble with his own cash to keep TVR alive and for that we should all be very grateful indeed.
Jellinek said:
"I don't want to be confrontational, but the above is a recipe for disaster. Having worked with TWR (W, not V), ProDrive and other similar consultancy firms, I know how costly they are and it would bleed a small outfit dry. If Mr Edgar's plans are large enough to require a partner, then I'm afraid they are the wrong plans. What is needed is small team of experienced and talented engineers with a can-do attitude employed by TVR direct. However, I do agree that the new F-Type falls way short of the expectation its moniker carries and there is currently an opening in the market.
"In terms of the car, they need to stick with the tubular steel chassis and GRP shell in the short term. I personally would get one or two of the old models up an running with a standard Ford V8 powertrain and the quality issues addressed asap to get the cashflow started. Call these the "Phoenix" Limited edition cars if you like with special paint and trim etc etc. This would minimise the Engineering workload whilst the company was still teething. It would also buy time to develop a new "halo" model, again with Ford V8 to grab the headlines. After that, i would roll out a "bread and butter" car with a Ford V6, still keeping to the same format, which would be the volume seller. A four pot could be developed later, I love the idea of bringing back the Vixen name, but not initially as it would disrupt the DNA continuity. I also think its incredibly unlikely given the comments in the interview. Its not the most glamorous plan, but remember the key thing is to survive, not blow all the cash on a one special that never made it to production.
"TVR, more than any other Low Volume manufacturer, got so may things right. The Styling, the sound, the modular construction, the surprise and delight interiors etc ect. It would be incredibly foolish to throw away that basic winning formula and try to compete with the likes of Aston, (who make little or no money by the way). I take my hat of to the man. He is taking a huge gamble with his own cash to keep TVR alive and for that we should all be very grateful indeed."
THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST INSIGHTFUL 'POST' THUS FAR - WELL SAID INDEED - may even be what Mr LE is thinking along-the-lines-of already [hopefully]???
"I don't want to be confrontational, but the above is a recipe for disaster. Having worked with TWR (W, not V), ProDrive and other similar consultancy firms, I know how costly they are and it would bleed a small outfit dry. If Mr Edgar's plans are large enough to require a partner, then I'm afraid they are the wrong plans. What is needed is small team of experienced and talented engineers with a can-do attitude employed by TVR direct. However, I do agree that the new F-Type falls way short of the expectation its moniker carries and there is currently an opening in the market.
"In terms of the car, they need to stick with the tubular steel chassis and GRP shell in the short term. I personally would get one or two of the old models up an running with a standard Ford V8 powertrain and the quality issues addressed asap to get the cashflow started. Call these the "Phoenix" Limited edition cars if you like with special paint and trim etc etc. This would minimise the Engineering workload whilst the company was still teething. It would also buy time to develop a new "halo" model, again with Ford V8 to grab the headlines. After that, i would roll out a "bread and butter" car with a Ford V6, still keeping to the same format, which would be the volume seller. A four pot could be developed later, I love the idea of bringing back the Vixen name, but not initially as it would disrupt the DNA continuity. I also think its incredibly unlikely given the comments in the interview. Its not the most glamorous plan, but remember the key thing is to survive, not blow all the cash on a one special that never made it to production.
"TVR, more than any other Low Volume manufacturer, got so may things right. The Styling, the sound, the modular construction, the surprise and delight interiors etc ect. It would be incredibly foolish to throw away that basic winning formula and try to compete with the likes of Aston, (who make little or no money by the way). I take my hat of to the man. He is taking a huge gamble with his own cash to keep TVR alive and for that we should all be very grateful indeed."
THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST INSIGHTFUL 'POST' THUS FAR - WELL SAID INDEED - may even be what Mr LE is thinking along-the-lines-of already [hopefully]???
It's back to topic then - also the above trolls reminded me that whatever car Mr Elgar comes with he must keep the tradition in motor show presentations.....
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f-0YSe9ZOVA/TYD...
There is one other thing we must not forget- a lot of "us" enthusiasts have bought their P&J 2nd hand and will continue to do so (for either financial reasons or to beat 1st year depreciation or similar)
A lot of those cars we now love for what they are got bought in the early 2000s on bonuses because they were hipper and cooler than Porsche 993 and 996 and cheaper then entry level Ferraris or Lambos back then
Any company director taking on TVR will have to listen to the enthusiasts as they create and maintain a lot of a brands Kudos and image, but when designing a car he will need to think what the new car buyers might want, he will need to convince first time buyers (who will be mostly one or two generations behind the majority of posters here by the time it is readily developed)
He will also need to get a loyal dealership – either back or new which he will need to keep happy – this will partially go with making the cars reliable as the dealers will get the full whack if they aren’t but also give the a business model which is usually also based on service and the like – sticking in an American crate engine which every blacksmith can fettle with keeps us happy but not necessary the dealerships (most of the previous TVR dealers have either gone out of business, swapped brands or invested a lot of time and money to get the S6 and AJP engine cars running and on the road – so any other business model will alienate then unless there is some form of compensation)
All other things with crate engines or drive trains only work when you then can use the dealerships of this partner for service and repairs – which I think at the meonet works only to a degree for Pagani
I would like a loud brawny V8 (not US ideally) in a new TVR but I did love my speed six and most of the other tivs I heard sound great – I think we need to give whatever appears a chance – the suggestions I made higher up was just thinking about a future customer base – Christof has explained why any new developments are difficult to impossible for a small company, but without EU and US type approval it may not be worth the bother
Rather than developing a new entry level car with a crate engine it might also be worth to stick with either Power or RG s developments for a reengineered T350 convertible and coupe to get some cash in whilst searching and developing a new halo model with a partner – some upgrades like a quaife LSD and TC and some ICE could be developed relatively quickly I guess, and some weight might be shelved by using a moderate amount of composites – if he owns the rights and moulds to those cars it might be easier
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f-0YSe9ZOVA/TYD...
There is one other thing we must not forget- a lot of "us" enthusiasts have bought their P&J 2nd hand and will continue to do so (for either financial reasons or to beat 1st year depreciation or similar)
A lot of those cars we now love for what they are got bought in the early 2000s on bonuses because they were hipper and cooler than Porsche 993 and 996 and cheaper then entry level Ferraris or Lambos back then
Any company director taking on TVR will have to listen to the enthusiasts as they create and maintain a lot of a brands Kudos and image, but when designing a car he will need to think what the new car buyers might want, he will need to convince first time buyers (who will be mostly one or two generations behind the majority of posters here by the time it is readily developed)
He will also need to get a loyal dealership – either back or new which he will need to keep happy – this will partially go with making the cars reliable as the dealers will get the full whack if they aren’t but also give the a business model which is usually also based on service and the like – sticking in an American crate engine which every blacksmith can fettle with keeps us happy but not necessary the dealerships (most of the previous TVR dealers have either gone out of business, swapped brands or invested a lot of time and money to get the S6 and AJP engine cars running and on the road – so any other business model will alienate then unless there is some form of compensation)
All other things with crate engines or drive trains only work when you then can use the dealerships of this partner for service and repairs – which I think at the meonet works only to a degree for Pagani
I would like a loud brawny V8 (not US ideally) in a new TVR but I did love my speed six and most of the other tivs I heard sound great – I think we need to give whatever appears a chance – the suggestions I made higher up was just thinking about a future customer base – Christof has explained why any new developments are difficult to impossible for a small company, but without EU and US type approval it may not be worth the bother
Rather than developing a new entry level car with a crate engine it might also be worth to stick with either Power or RG s developments for a reengineered T350 convertible and coupe to get some cash in whilst searching and developing a new halo model with a partner – some upgrades like a quaife LSD and TC and some ICE could be developed relatively quickly I guess, and some weight might be shelved by using a moderate amount of composites – if he owns the rights and moulds to those cars it might be easier
cramorra said:
It's back to topic then - also the above trolls reminded me that whatever car Mr Elgar comes with he must keep the tradition in motor show presentations.....
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f-0YSe9ZOVA/TYD...
There is one other thing we must not forget- a lot of "us" enthusiasts have bought their P&J 2nd hand and will continue to do so (for either financial reasons or to beat 1st year depreciation or similar)
A lot of those cars we now love for what they are got bought in the early 2000s on bonuses because they were hipper and cooler than Porsche 993 and 996 and cheaper then entry level Ferraris or Lambos back then
Any company director taking on TVR will have to listen to the enthusiasts as they create and maintain a lot of a brands Kudos and image, but when designing a car he will need to think what the new car buyers might want, he will need to convince first time buyers (who will be mostly one or two generations behind the majority of posters here by the time it is readily developed)
He will also need to get a loyal dealership – either back or new which he will need to keep happy – this will partially go with making the cars reliable as the dealers will get the full whack if they aren’t but also give the a business model which is usually also based on service and the like – sticking in an American crate engine which every blacksmith can fettle with keeps us happy but not necessary the dealerships (most of the previous TVR dealers have either gone out of business, swapped brands or invested a lot of time and money to get the S6 and AJP engine cars running and on the road – so any other business model will alienate then unless there is some form of compensation)
All other things with crate engines or drive trains only work when you then can use the dealerships of this partner for service and repairs – which I think at the meonet works only to a degree for Pagani
I would like a loud brawny V8 (not US ideally) in a new TVR but I did love my speed six and most of the other tivs I heard sound great – I think we need to give whatever appears a chance – the suggestions I made higher up was just thinking about a future customer base – Christof has explained why any new developments are difficult to impossible for a small company, but without EU and US type approval it may not be worth the bother
Rather than developing a new entry level car with a crate engine it might also be worth to stick with either Power or RG s developments for a reengineered T350 convertible and coupe to get some cash in whilst searching and developing a new halo model with a partner – some upgrades like a quaife LSD and TC and some ICE could be developed relatively quickly I guess, and some weight might be shelved by using a moderate amount of composites – if he owns the rights and moulds to those cars it might be easier
I think if you drove a current Mustang V6 or V8 you would be more than happy with the performance and fuel economy balance for each car. Put those powertrains in a TVR body and you have the reliability people require with the uniqueness of the styling.https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f-0YSe9ZOVA/TYD...
There is one other thing we must not forget- a lot of "us" enthusiasts have bought their P&J 2nd hand and will continue to do so (for either financial reasons or to beat 1st year depreciation or similar)
A lot of those cars we now love for what they are got bought in the early 2000s on bonuses because they were hipper and cooler than Porsche 993 and 996 and cheaper then entry level Ferraris or Lambos back then
Any company director taking on TVR will have to listen to the enthusiasts as they create and maintain a lot of a brands Kudos and image, but when designing a car he will need to think what the new car buyers might want, he will need to convince first time buyers (who will be mostly one or two generations behind the majority of posters here by the time it is readily developed)
He will also need to get a loyal dealership – either back or new which he will need to keep happy – this will partially go with making the cars reliable as the dealers will get the full whack if they aren’t but also give the a business model which is usually also based on service and the like – sticking in an American crate engine which every blacksmith can fettle with keeps us happy but not necessary the dealerships (most of the previous TVR dealers have either gone out of business, swapped brands or invested a lot of time and money to get the S6 and AJP engine cars running and on the road – so any other business model will alienate then unless there is some form of compensation)
All other things with crate engines or drive trains only work when you then can use the dealerships of this partner for service and repairs – which I think at the meonet works only to a degree for Pagani
I would like a loud brawny V8 (not US ideally) in a new TVR but I did love my speed six and most of the other tivs I heard sound great – I think we need to give whatever appears a chance – the suggestions I made higher up was just thinking about a future customer base – Christof has explained why any new developments are difficult to impossible for a small company, but without EU and US type approval it may not be worth the bother
Rather than developing a new entry level car with a crate engine it might also be worth to stick with either Power or RG s developments for a reengineered T350 convertible and coupe to get some cash in whilst searching and developing a new halo model with a partner – some upgrades like a quaife LSD and TC and some ICE could be developed relatively quickly I guess, and some weight might be shelved by using a moderate amount of composites – if he owns the rights and moulds to those cars it might be easier
The issue is that nobody knows what the current owners of TVR have purchased, what they can do or can't, etc.
If they can make the old models I would make a Sagaris prototype using purchased powertrain components from Ford Power Products and go through the type approval process, including crashing cars - and engineering to perform well in those tests.
TVR is about a value oriented combination of exterior styling and performance, not so much about interior comfort or feature content. If they remember that then they should do OK.
GavinPearson said:
I think if you drove a current Mustang V6 or V8 you would be more than happy with the performance and fuel economy balance for each car. Put those powertrains in a TVR body and you have the reliability people require with the uniqueness of the styling.
I have NO doubt I d be happy with it - but I could buy a Mustang (or a Corvette for that matter)- and so could others - so why pay something extra for this - an european engine might be perceived similarely- hence I have a soft spot for the Speed 6 and the AJP 8, but do understand it's too expensive to develop something independently - but I would prefer an European Engine at leastGavinPearson said:
The issue is that nobody knows what the current owners of TVR have purchased, what they can do or can't, etc.
I understood they bought ALL the rights so (possibly wrongly) assumed they can do all - I know somebody else said they did not buy the LOGO.... so we really need to wait for an official press releaseGavinPearson said:
If they can make the old models I would make a Sagaris prototype using purchased powertrain components from Ford Power Products and go through the type approval process, including crashing cars - and engineering to perform well in those tests.
If they can make the old models they have already UK type approval so they could market them whit either POWER or RG units whilst they develop something else to show people something is happening, get a few bob in and have some presence on the road - it would also help to recruit dealers...GavinPearson said:
TVR is about a value oriented combination of exterior styling and performance, not so much about interior comfort or feature content. If they remember that then they should do OK.
I see from your profile you do not (or have ever) owned a TVR - and still like the brand - so I think it is extremely valuable what you say because this might bring the new owner new customers. I broadly agree with the firsty part of your statement but I think it should be past tense-TVR WAS about a value oriented combination of exterior styling and performance - and I think this was unsustainable as a business model- obviously accelerated by quality issues. I think to a degree this was because of the absence of interior comfort or feature content- although not strictly true as cars ealy took on electric windows, PAS, Aircon and so forth (even warm seats could be had...)-
So unfortuneately I have to change your final comment - -If they remember that then they might go under again...
elisek said:
at the moment the only thing he did, it was to loose the logo rights.
Complete BS.Having the rights (maybe) to use a similar logo doesn't mean the real TVR ( ie the people who own the company) can't use their registered logo.
Whilst you (I assume its you) have a similar logo with italia written under it that as far as I can see is still challenged all that means is you can stick that logo on something that's a kit car made in Italy.
sorry that logo is not mine but i think you see what you want to see. if you read better you can see that is not like you think or you say.
I-m sorry to inform you that papers are more importants than many words.
But that is not my problem.
everyone can build TVRs, who can say what is the owner now? a web site? maybe not? a logo? maybe not? an empty factory? maybe not? a empty box????
only who produce finally 1 car with the right logo.
all the rest is only BS.
PS: the modern TVR logo is in some hands, the old TVR logo in other hands.....so there are 2 TVR....or maybe more!
I-m sorry to inform you that papers are more importants than many words.
But that is not my problem.
everyone can build TVRs, who can say what is the owner now? a web site? maybe not? a logo? maybe not? an empty factory? maybe not? a empty box????
only who produce finally 1 car with the right logo.
all the rest is only BS.
PS: the modern TVR logo is in some hands, the old TVR logo in other hands.....so there are 2 TVR....or maybe more!
Edited by elisek on Monday 24th June 18:19
Edited by elisek on Monday 24th June 18:43
elisek said:
sorry that logo is not mine but i think you see what you want to see. if you read better you can see that is not like you think or you say.
I-m sorry to inform you that papers are more importants than many words.
But that is not my problem.
everyone can build TVRs, who can say what is the owner now? a web site? maybe not? a logo? maybe not? an empty factory? maybe not? a empty box????
only who produce finally 1 car with the right logo.
all the rest is only BS.
PS: the modern TVR logo is in some hands, the old TVR logo in other hands.....so there are 2 TVR....or maybe more!
Come again?! I-m sorry to inform you that papers are more importants than many words.
But that is not my problem.
everyone can build TVRs, who can say what is the owner now? a web site? maybe not? a logo? maybe not? an empty factory? maybe not? a empty box????
only who produce finally 1 car with the right logo.
all the rest is only BS.
PS: the modern TVR logo is in some hands, the old TVR logo in other hands.....so there are 2 TVR....or maybe more!
Edited by elisek on Monday 24th June 18:19
Edited by elisek on Monday 24th June 18:43
elisek said:
who can say what is the owner now?
I think you will find the English courts would say it is the person who owns the company that is registered at Companies House, and who owns the assets and Intellectual Property Rights, Trade Marks, Patents and Copyrights that go with it. Which is Mr. Edgar right now. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Edit: Also see Auto Express which says
There was a twist in the TVR saga today when Auto Express was contacted by the Managing Director of TVR Italia. He claimed that TVR Italia is the only valid trade mark and the only TVR brand applicable into the automotive sector, a fact recognised by the European Court for Trade Marks. He also stated that he was planning to manufacturer a new range of vehicles.
We spoke once again to the new owner of TVR Automotive, Mr Les Edgar, who had ths to say: "You only have to check the European Community Trade Mark Register to see that the trade mark is owned by us. If in any doubt, you can check the UK and OAMI websites under TVR and see our registrations and his application. Ours are ‘Registered’, his is ‘Opposed’."
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/64277/tvr-ba...
Edited by JonRB on Monday 24th June 19:26
JonRB said:
I think you will find the English courts would say it is the person who owns the company that is registered at Companies House, and who owns the assets and Intellectual Property Rights, Trade Marks, Patents and Copyrights that go with it. Which is Mr. Edgar right now.
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Edit: Also see Auto Express which says
There was a twist in the TVR saga today when Auto Express was contacted by the Managing Director of TVR Italia. He claimed that TVR Italia is the only valid trade mark and the only TVR brand applicable into the automotive sector, a fact recognised by the European Court for Trade Marks. He also stated that he was planning to manufacturer a new range of vehicles.
We spoke once again to the new owner of TVR Automotive, Mr Les Edgar, who had ths to say: "You only have to check the European Community Trade Mark Register to see that the trade mark is owned by us. If in any doubt, you can check the UK and OAMI websites under TVR and see our registrations and his application. Ours are ‘Registered’, his is ‘Opposed’."
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/64277/tvr-ba...
Hey, i'm not the owner or involved. I just read the acts and documents.Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Edit: Also see Auto Express which says
There was a twist in the TVR saga today when Auto Express was contacted by the Managing Director of TVR Italia. He claimed that TVR Italia is the only valid trade mark and the only TVR brand applicable into the automotive sector, a fact recognised by the European Court for Trade Marks. He also stated that he was planning to manufacturer a new range of vehicles.
We spoke once again to the new owner of TVR Automotive, Mr Les Edgar, who had ths to say: "You only have to check the European Community Trade Mark Register to see that the trade mark is owned by us. If in any doubt, you can check the UK and OAMI websites under TVR and see our registrations and his application. Ours are ‘Registered’, his is ‘Opposed’."
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/64277/tvr-ba...
Edited by JonRB on Monday 24th June 19:26
What the 99% of the people, also here, don't do.
Own a company called TVR cars, TVR motors, TVR 4 wheels, TVR bla bla doesn't mean you own the trade mark.
You can call your company also MICKEY MOUSE if you own the TVR trademarks.
Also UK court means nothing here. Only european one. Seems that someone in TVR doesn't know the rules and is not able to read documents about TM. Documents that are pubblic. Good reading!
Fortunately Italian law is irrelevant in the rest of the world. Anyway, I've just checked the status of the various European trademarks. The two which are claimed by the bloke who is trying his luck with "TVR Italia" are indeed "opposed" and will be going nowhere. The ones registered by TVR the UK based car company are actually registered to them.
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 24th June 21:33
Lowtimer said:
Fortunately Italian law is irrelevant in the rest of the world. Anyway, I've just checked the status of the various European trademarks. The two which are claimed by the bloke who is trying his luck with "TVR Italia" are indeed "opposed" and will be going nowhere. The ones registered by TVR the UK based car company are actually registered to them.
sorry but you don-t read the acts of the last 6 yrs!Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 24th June 21:33
you are blind! very blind!
Opposition is valid till the last act from the court.....it is better you read the right act.
Soon will be change to registered.
I understand here there are not expert lawyers but talking about something that you don.t know 100% is like to waiste just time like many many people i see here.
JUST read! you have been f
k by NS 1 time, this time is by italians.Next time will be by
stain?!i left lot of thinking. Just read the right paper if you are able unless go ahead screaming what you want.... reality is quite different.
PS: again i'm not involved!
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