RE: 'The toughest, most capable Land Rover ever'
Discussion
Shabs said:
It seems like you work at JLR, potentially take this as client feedback: It feels like you are hanging up your boots and that the only choice for people like me is a 70 series land cruiser or a Jeep wrangler
+ 1I also think the Jimny falls into this camp if you don't need the utility side (well towing at any rate). This is where I have put my money currently with an order for one.
300bhp/ton said:
That isn't what I've said. I've said I've seen more Jap trucks just recently, likely because LR have for 4 years now offered nothing suitable.
Many farmers round my way still use Land Rover's and have done for years. But they now have nothing to buy from them, so are being forced to look elsewhere. So many have indeed now switched. But not because they didn't want another one, because there wasn't one to buy.
But that kind of proves the entire argument. They weren’t buying in any kind of number required to justify keeping the product so let’s invest billions in building a new version that almost no one is going to buy either. Many farmers round my way still use Land Rover's and have done for years. But they now have nothing to buy from them, so are being forced to look elsewhere. So many have indeed now switched. But not because they didn't want another one, because there wasn't one to buy.
The problem 300 is that you’re bringing anecdotes, prejudices and fantasy to an argument which has sanity, reasoning and facts sitting on the other side. You’ve basically turned up to the gun fight with an over ripe guava and a ping pong bat.
A good reason for the Defender’s continued existence is to underpin LR’s brand as a pukka 4X4 manufacturer. Without the basic no-nonsense model it is just another provider of bland SUVs. It is the Defender that lends credibility to the brand. The Wrangler does the same thing for Jeep.
So why not take the Defender the other way? Instead of a slightly differently skinned Discovery, which is what the new Defender is, how about a smaller, cheaper, more basic design akin to the Wrangler. A modern version of the Series III Lightweight, forget the farmer’s - appeal to the Wrangler / Jimmy crowd.
So why not take the Defender the other way? Instead of a slightly differently skinned Discovery, which is what the new Defender is, how about a smaller, cheaper, more basic design akin to the Wrangler. A modern version of the Series III Lightweight, forget the farmer’s - appeal to the Wrangler / Jimmy crowd.
Bill said:
LR doesn't currently make anything (as a D4 owner) I want. The new Defender will likely be that thing. And I suspect I'm more typical a user than the one life live it crew. (Although as unlikely to buy new as them.)
It was always too big for my needs as it would be used during the week for family duties and frankly, I just don’t have the energy or desire to engage with car service centres any more than is absolutely necessary. I have a relatively short temper with a certain type of person and the risk of running into one of them at a JLR service centre is considerable.
This new Defender might just be stuck to better but it’s smaller size makes it a lot more appealing. I’m looking forward to seeing them in the flesh but am hoping they don’t have a particularly fancy interior.
soxboy said:
If a company with the capital of Mercedes decided it wasn't worth the investment and borrowed the development made by Nissan in the Navarra, why don't Land Rover reskin the Jeep Wrangler for a new less-refined model?
Could even call it the Land Rover Defender 300?
Mercedes and Renault-Nissan have and alliance, though that maybe coming to an end. JLR have no relationship with FCACould even call it the Land Rover Defender 300?
Ayahuasca said:
A good reason for the Defender’s continued existence is to underpin LR’s brand as a pukka 4X4 manufacturer.
If you are of the opinion that the old Landy was that vehicle. But the facts don’t support that. The vehicle that sells all other vehicles is the FFRR and this has been the case since the early 80s when Lamd Rober really defined the global luxury SUV segment in recognition that everyone on the planet with money libed on a road and had roads that linked them easily to everything they wanted to do and everywhere they wanted to go.
JLR only exists today precisely because of the Range Rover. Not the lovely Landy. Without the Range Rover there would be no JLR. For 50 years it has catered perfectly and brilliantly to the change in First World society as hundreds of millions of consumers have become wealthy enough to have liesure time and to travel and to indulge their passion for luxury and comfort.
And I’m case people started to forget that then I’m the 90s they repeated the exact same mechanism by launching the road focussed Disco that from day one absolutely smashed all private Defender sales. And that’s 30 years ago now.
Then they brought out the Sport which was a Disco made even more road and urban focussed and that smashed new sales figures from the off.
And then they brought out the Evoque for another audience and that smashed it.
This new Defender does exactly the same. It caters for the consumer. And it will probably sell in its first month more than the old Defender could in a year.
When you understand that then it is all rather easy to see why every single other product is a branch off from that core product. As much as we all all love the Landy it isn’t the vehicle that created and defined JLR. That was the Range Rover and that is why all other products are branches off from the Rangie.
The key for this product will be how well they are able to marry the modern concept of liesure utility with JLRs dominant brand of luxury. I really hope you can specify a Spartan interior regardless of the overall spec of the car. I hate it when manufacturers assume that just because you don’t want the automated haemorrhoid massagers and all the other pensioner stuff like neck heating, things to pass you your seatbelt, alarms to remind you to stop snoozing and systems to help you remember where you are going or where you live that you don’t want the 5 litre V8.
I want to be able to delete all the OAP crap from the interior but still be allowed to buy the big, stinky V8. What will p1ss me off is if they tell me that just like with all their other products, if I want to own the stinky V8 version I have to spend my life driving around in a retirement home.
For actual information on what JLR is up to, they recently (5 June) posted on their website a 106 slide presentation to soothe the fevered brows of their investors (the bondholders) who have several £ billion on loan to the company. I found it a convincing read and description of their direction of travel in an uncertain world. For those bothered to look it up, it will answer a lot of questions.
Earlier Max Torque set out the fundamentals that have always guided the business decisions that are made. As he pointed out Land Rover products have always depended on using components shared between products. The 4x4 market has constantly evolved, broadened and developed; 4x4 pickups were substituting for Land Rovers back in the early 1980s. The new model will be the result of some serious product development and validation and will make its own contribution to that evolution in the future.
Earlier Max Torque set out the fundamentals that have always guided the business decisions that are made. As he pointed out Land Rover products have always depended on using components shared between products. The 4x4 market has constantly evolved, broadened and developed; 4x4 pickups were substituting for Land Rovers back in the early 1980s. The new model will be the result of some serious product development and validation and will make its own contribution to that evolution in the future.
DonkeyApple said:
I want to be able to delete all the OAP crap from the interior but still be allowed to buy the big, stinky V8. What will p1ss me off is if they tell me that just like with all their other products, if I want to own the stinky V8 version I have to spend my life driving around in a retirement home.
I'll be amazed if it's available with anything more than a 2l. 
Bill said:
I'll be amazed if it's available with anything more than a 2l.
I agree. The 5.0 is dead so it doesn’t seem likely they would invest any money in offering it into the least likely product to have screaming demand for it. I’m guessing they won’t even offer the V6 but wait until the new I6 has survived its baptism in the Sport in a few years time.
Even then, I suspect it’ll only come with hybrid tech as JLR need to bring down their CO2 figures dramatically to be able to compete going forward.
Still, if it’s a hybrid that’s able to do the school and shopping run during the week on electric and then at the weekends offer me some form of entertainment via 500nm of torque and a sub 6 0-60 while also fudging its way through the ULEZ charge then frankly, if it comes with a youth interior option over the OAP life support that is currently mandatory then I think I’ll grab one ASAP.
DonkeyApple said:
Bill said:
I'll be amazed if it's available with anything more than a 2l.
I agree. The 5.0 is dead so it doesn’t seem likely they would invest any money in offering it into the least likely product to have screaming demand for it. I’m guessing they won’t even offer the V6 but wait until the new I6 has survived its baptism in the Sport in a few years time.
Even then, I suspect it’ll only come with hybrid tech as JLR need to bring down their CO2 figures dramatically to be able to compete going forward.
Still, if it’s a hybrid that’s able to do the school and shopping run during the week on electric and then at the weekends offer me some form of entertainment via 500nm of torque and a sub 6 0-60 while also fudging its way through the ULEZ charge then frankly, if it comes with a youth interior option over the OAP life support that is currently mandatory then I think I’ll grab one ASAP.
CooperS said:
DonkeyApple said:
Bill said:
I'll be amazed if it's available with anything more than a 2l.
I agree. The 5.0 is dead so it doesn’t seem likely they would invest any money in offering it into the least likely product to have screaming demand for it. I’m guessing they won’t even offer the V6 but wait until the new I6 has survived its baptism in the Sport in a few years time.
Even then, I suspect it’ll only come with hybrid tech as JLR need to bring down their CO2 figures dramatically to be able to compete going forward.
Still, if it’s a hybrid that’s able to do the school and shopping run during the week on electric and then at the weekends offer me some form of entertainment via 500nm of torque and a sub 6 0-60 while also fudging its way through the ULEZ charge then frankly, if it comes with a youth interior option over the OAP life support that is currently mandatory then I think I’ll grab one ASAP.
ks about hybrids or e-vehicles. Some good points above, v8 with a more utilitarian / less Chelsea interior would be a fanstastic spec.
CooperS said:
Why is it so important to have a massive displacement in this day and age. I'd be far more attracted to this if it's got a good hybrid balance. It's not exactly a weekend car and theres far more people who can't run a V8 than the handful who could justify it. So why spend money on that development.
To be fair I never said it was important. I said it was what I would like. I’m not even expecting it to exist as the market trend is for a motorised palliative care suite with a tiny engine. I’m perfectly aware that I am culturally at odds with masses in desiring the exact opposite. I would trade the 50 electric motors to open doors, move seats, massage my piles, wipe my butt for a much more basic interior and a much more exciting drive train. I’m not old and frail and can move a seat myself, move a mirror myself and even work out when to turn windscreen wipers or lights on and off but also because I am young I like something that has plenty of oomph under the bonnet. I’m not expecting such a product to appear but in the JLR stable the new Defender is the only product that might even remotely come close.
shirt said:
I pay about 30p a litre for super unleaded so I want the 5.0 maknly because I can. Jlt sell shedloads of v8 and svr models abroad, mainly to countries with cheap fuel and zero fks about hybrids or e-vehicles.
The countries you refer to are basically the Middle East region. It is largely not significant to any global car manufacturer in terms of product - JLR sells about 15% of it's volume to what it classifies as 'Overseas' which includes the Middle East but also Brazil, India, Russia, Australia, Russia, etc, so effectively <10% to the ME. It gets what's designed for EU/NA or minor variations of.ks about hybrids or e-vehicles. JxJ Jr. said:
shirt said:
I pay about 30p a litre for super unleaded so I want the 5.0 maknly because I can. Jlt sell shedloads of v8 and svr models abroad, mainly to countries with cheap fuel and zero fks about hybrids or e-vehicles.
The countries you refer to are basically the Middle East region. It is largely not significant to any global car manufacturer in terms of product - JLR sells about 15% of it's volume to what it classifies as 'Overseas' which includes the Middle East but also Brazil, India, Russia, Australia, Russia, etc, so effectively <10% to the ME. It gets what's designed for EU/NA or minor variations of.ks about hybrids or e-vehicles. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff