Nobody wants big engined petrols for trade-in.

[M5 Russ]

I can squeeze 25 mpg out of the M5 if I want. The trouble is I never do as the sound of the 5 litre v8 is like a drug. She now only comes out at weekends but every drive is a joy and I look forward to driving it.
I would rather give up the pub than than the M5 - in fact I was charged almost 4 quid for a pint last night in a Hythe sea front pub so I may just do that

[CDP]

uk_vette said:

CDP said:

Even if you can cope with the rattle, soot and vibration the main issue is so many diesels seem to get really big bills as they nudge past the 100K mark.

A turbo is at least a grand, injectors around £500 a go while a dual mass flywheel somewhere in between.

Any BMW owners out there just need to google "swirl flag". A friend just had one go and the BMW dealer reckoned on about £7K to fix the damage.

Another friend had the flywheel go on his Mondeo at £800, another needed a couple of grands worth of injectors.

My brother was told a new clutch on his Modus would be £1200. He traded it for an XJ6 petrol...

A few years ago diesels were reliable but with the compexity brought about by modern emissions regulations I think diesels are best avoided. Besides, diesels smell and make a horrible noise.

.
Really ? Thats very expensive, and they say Toyo parts are not cheap.
Thats why I would never buy a BMW.
Toyota reliability all the way.
My Toyo has 226xxx miles, yes it just needed new alternator at 205xxx, so I will keep the Toyo thank you.

vette

That's the price for a new engine fitted. Obviously a used engine would be significantly cheaper but would still take a fair bit of labour to install. Anybody know a good independent who does 3 series diesels?

The swirl flag disintegrated and entered the cylinders, scoring them and destroying the head on the way. After searching online it appears quite a common fault but can't be because German cars are reliable...

Then again my MR2 was quite capable of generating big bills.

[Negative Creep]

BMW salesman told me yesterday they havent sold a single petrol version of the new 7 series. Its always struck me as a bit odd that you can afford £70000 for a car but are worried about fuel economy.

Thanks in part to this ridiculous taxation system it seems most people see mpg as the sole indication of how much a car will cost to run.

[Bill]

Negative Creep said:

BMW salesman told me yesterday they havent sold a single petrol version of the new 7 series. Its always struck me as a bit odd that you can afford £70000 for a car but are worried about fuel economy.

Thanks in part to this ridiculous taxation system it seems most people see mpg as the sole indication of how much a car will cost to run.

You also have to consider resale, and whether you'll notice it's a diesel in something that smooth.

The thing is the big downsides of diesel don't hit the first or even second owner, so it's going to take time for poor resale values to work their way back up the chain when people after a £2k car start wanting petrol. IYSWIM.

[sawman]

Negative Creep said:

BMW salesman told me yesterday they havent sold a single petrol version of the new 7 series. Its always struck me as a bit odd that you can afford £70000 for a car but are worried about fuel economy.

Thanks in part to this ridiculous taxation system it seems most people see mpg as the sole indication of how much a car will cost to run.

Does this mean there are massive discounts to be had one the petrol one they have at the back of the showroom?

[With these feet]

Bungleaio said:

With these feet said:

But unless youre doing intergalactic mileages, it can take a couple of years to recoup the initial outlay.
Plus LPG is getting more and more expensive as the government realise they can cream more taxes from it.

If you work out outlay against actual costs and resale over a few yeras, the only person to benefit from LPG is the second owner!

I've broken even after 12 months of having the conversion done, I'm planning on keeping the car for another 2 years so it makes sense to me. Fuel has gone up 10p a litre in the past year, I'm not sure how much petrol has gone up as i don't buy it much anymore, I've only filled up twice so far this year.

You must be doing quite a few miles then.
I do around 6k a year averaging 30mpg which is around £1150 in fuel.
If the diesel does say 50 mpg, fuel is about £740.
For me to fit LPG would be around £1400 - or 2 years worth of petrol. By the time its paid for itself, my car will probably be worth less than the LPG kit!
£400 difference to me does not warrant the massive loss in swapping, the additional service and potential problem costs. I do all my own work so the only cost would be parts and the diesel version of my car has issues with DMF's and clutches that are circa £800 in parts only.

[PhilboSE]

loose cannon said:

to put it into context my mother drives a clio dci she got it newin 06 it costs £20 to tax and she only fill's it up once a month it does 58 mpg+ group 5 insurance just had its first set of boots at 36k it cost's her very little to run and does her nicely, she has no interest in cars only interest for her is cost of running, its safe,easy to drive light etc, and enough room for the garden centre and grandchildren, and i should imagine a good 70% of all car owners in this country have a similar view as to there next purchase, give it 5 years and the guzzlers will be out of production, as horrid as it sounds i just cant see people putting up with the fuel prices and they are not going to get cheaper even the wealthy will soon get cheased off with paying £130 to fill there car twice a week

Edited by loose cannon on Friday 3rd June 21:25

Phew...and breathe!

Hey, I'm not saying that small, cheap to run cars are bad - I have one of those too!

However when I'm carting my large family plus animals around, I need a car big enough for the job. That meant an MPV or a 7-seater 4x4. I really tried to bring myself to buy an MPV, but I couldn't. The Renault quality factor was definitely an issue, but the killer for me was the depreciation. There was no way I was buying an old MPV due to inherited reliability issues.

For LESS money than a new (admittedly specced-up) Renault Espace I got a 6 month old ex-demo Audi Q7 V8 diesel. 2 years on the Renault would now be worth about 50% purchase price, but the Q7 has only lost about 10% of what I paid at the time (because I got such a good deal). The Q7 costs a bit more to tax, does about 20% worse mpg, but I can afford them and am willing to pay a bit more for a much better quality vehicle. But the (difference in) tax and running costs are nothing compared with depreciation.

My point wasn't to say that small, cheap to run cars are bad in themselves, but anyone who insists on buying a new car (as opposed to nearly new) and then makes that decision based on cost of road tax or 2mpg better is financially weak-minded. If cost of ownership is a factor in the decision, don't buy brand new.

[christofmccracke]

Thesaint01708 said:

This! - time and time again i have had this conversation.

Me: how many miles a year do you do
Them: about 6000
Me: No point buying a hybrid then, you will never see the return on investment.
them: but its only £10 a year to tax
me: but the petrol version is only £90 a year to tax
them: thats £80 a year saving
me: the hybrid is £2000 more expensive
Them: but its still cheaper to tax
me: it will take you 15 years of ownership to even break even...

urghh!

Or people who want to save money so sell there car and buy a more expensive economical car, thus spending more money!

[XitUp]

Can people stop saying 'road tax' please? There is no such thing.

Thanks.

[CDP]

olly22n said:

Let the sheep buy diesel. I recently bought the wife a ford fusion, we had a choice between the petrol and the diesel.

Diesel was min £5k, petrol, well I got one for £2.8k. It still churns out 38mpg and has a nice simple 1400 engine. How many miles would the wife needed to drive to justify the diesel? Lord knows but we are happy with it.

Olly (household of 3 petrol cars )

I make the fuel cost per mile at 16p for petrol and 11.4p for diesel (assuming 55mpg). This means buying the diesel would break even at 48,000 miles. Assuming you don't get any of the really big bills.

[bamberwell]

m555 said:

bamberwell said:

yep ,my mg zt ,70000 miles , new everything , bills for £2800 in the last 18 months, mint, original is worth £70 ..............wtf?

That much?

balls it's got more than that in the petrol tank !!!!!!!!!

[Fox-]

The Boy Lard said:

Saw a 53 Reg S4 Avant in Silver on Autotrader for £3750 this week. 4.2V8. Anyone? Value is you don't clock up too many miles have deep pockets.

It was nicked then, as they are worth well over double that.

[XitUp]

fesuvious said:

An awful lot of government sites and others seem to recognise the term 'road tax', so, I'd suggest it does exist

How depressing that they have to pander to the ignorant.

Its Vehicle Excise Duty, there hasn't been a road tax for a long time.

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/b...

[CDP]

XitUp said:

fesuvious said:

An awful lot of government sites and others seem to recognise the term 'road tax', so, I'd suggest it does exist

How depressing that they have to pander to the ignorant.

Its Vehicle Excise Duty, there hasn't been a road tax for a long time.

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/b...

What's the difference between a duty and a tax?

Originally it was devised as the Road Fund Licence which was a fee paid by motorists specifically for the upkeep of the roads. In fact the registered motorists were asked (by a poll) if they were willing to pay towards the roads on this basis and they agreed.

During the second world war parliment voted to raid the road fund for a year to help fund the war effort. They subsequently took the money through the rest of the war without additional votes.

When the war ended the government continued to raid the fund until it was realised in the 1960s that they shouldn't really be doing it. Legislation was brought forward such that the RFL disappeared to be replaced by VED.

A fairly good example of why tax hypothecation doesn't work; certainly not as an ongoing process.

[XitUp]

No, as it doesn't go to pay for roads.

The term car tax is fine, I have no problem with that, as its a tax on our cars. But its not a tax for the roads.

[Zwoelf]

Fox- said:

Matt UK said:

The trade hates big engined petrols

I hope this is reflected in the available discounts off sticker price of large engined petrol cars from dealers, then.

That makes no sense at all.

A car being less desirable than another doesn't mean it's marketed at the same price and you just get a bigger discount off it, it's marketed at a lower price to start with (else how would it generate any interest to buyers?) , and therefore needs to be bought into stock cheaper than the more desirable model.

It's bought and marketed cheaper, with a relatively similar margin (because there's only so much difference between retail prices and trade prices that people will ever accept before selling it themselves). Very, very simple supply vs. demand stuff.

The trade doesn't particularly hate big engined petrols, it'll buy and sell anything with a margin across it - but it has to be able to offer things for sale at a price that will tempt the buying public under the current market conditions. Most mainstream buyers do not want cars that do less than 40mpg currently.

The number of people I'm getting who want to go from their present 25-30mpg vehicle to the same vehicle with a diesel engine with cheaper VED and better fuel economy - but with no cost to change - is remarkable. They seem to fail to grasp who is going to buy their present car for the same price as they want to buy a more economical one, which isn't even taking to account any margins. We're somehow expected to pay the retail value of a 50mpg car as a trade value for a 30mpg one? Hmmm....

As ever, everything has a value, but it all hinges on what the majority of people are most likely to want to pay for it and what others are being advertised for (and remaining unsold at), which informs your purchase price as a trader.

[With these feet]

fesuvious said:

oh indeed

tens of millions refer to it as road tax, the Government refers to it as road tax, as does the AA and RAC, oh, and quite a few more motoring sites and associations.

And yet it doesn't exist,

It is a woeful tradegy, truly awful.

I was having a good weekend but now, sitting here in the knowledge that the term 'road tax' is so heinously incorrect, well, I can't quite believe it,

Gonna phone my mum

As said, because people refer to it as Road Tax, the think that's where it goes.

It reminds me of that old joke about tyres.

"just because it says India on it, doesnt mean thats where its from"

[VxDuncan]

Massive aside, but given the country's poor energy security and need to fund pointless windmills we are looking at a massive (double?) increase in electricity costs over the next decade. I wonder if older properties will start to drop in value in the same way as petrol cars? I can see it getting to the point where anything with a "c" energy rating is impossible to sell.

Back on topic (wahoo!) my father tried to buy a Focus ST in Spain a few years ago. Was told there were 4 used ones in the whole country. No market for big petrols in a country where there's a larger delta between petrol and diesel prices. Try looking for a petrol in Spain. Very few of them, and I can't help think we are going that way.

[ShaunTheSheep]

I wouldn't mind a big engined petrol just now, but they're like hens teeth at any price never mind discount price. After a 4x4 for SWMBO, thought X5 (as you do), thought nice big 5 litre with a good spec. They're still up for strong money, where they're up at all. Looking at Vitaras too (no difference eh, easier to park though), 2.5 v6 seems worth a punt, there's about 4 up for sale in the UK just now :-(

[Greg_D]

as mentioned earlier, i think that mid sized petrols are dead, my friend and i were having a blast around and his 320d ed was quicker than my 2.4t v70, he can get high 60s to the gallon and i can get 20, we are in a transitional period atm where the petrols are still around, but when the years pass and they get too old they won't be selling any new and therefore, long term biggish petrols are dead.