Discussion
Don't think so; other than the bracing atop the rear seats, which is there in the fixed seat cars.
I'm not sure the latter features any 'bracing' of sorts which would be absent from the folding seat cars anyway? I can't recall the last one having anything there other than a flat panel.
What I do notice though, is that you cannot fold the rear seats and open the sunroof without serious buffeting.
Oh and I do have the ski-hatch
I'm not sure the latter features any 'bracing' of sorts which would be absent from the folding seat cars anyway? I can't recall the last one having anything there other than a flat panel.
What I do notice though, is that you cannot fold the rear seats and open the sunroof without serious buffeting.
Oh and I do have the ski-hatch
e21Mark said:
dome said:
Hold on, has no-one picked up on this?
http://www.oscmotorsport.co.uk/sales/car013/sales_...
An e28 M5 for £4k?
Comes up as a real M5 according to Eurocarparts site, could be the V5 has been changed though.
Plenty of e28 M535s masquerade as M5's but his is apparently genuine.
And it has tax and test.
And it's £4K!!
Sorry, back to your non hand built lesser models
10 hours into 2012 and am already thinking of how I could buy this without the Mrs finding out? A proper, hand-built M5 for the same amount of cash as you could blow sorting out that new fangled VANOS malarky. http://www.oscmotorsport.co.uk/sales/car013/sales_...
An e28 M5 for £4k?
Comes up as a real M5 according to Eurocarparts site, could be the V5 has been changed though.
Plenty of e28 M535s masquerade as M5's but his is apparently genuine.
And it has tax and test.
And it's £4K!!
Sorry, back to your non hand built lesser models
Edited by dome on Friday 30th December 21:43
I'm off to see if the Mrs fancies a drive?
I prefer these wiyhout the bodykit.
POORCARDEALER said:
Toaster Pilot said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Oh and the TV no longer works due to digital switchover which is annoying
Got to be a way to fix that - does it have an external video in port?E30M3SE said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Toaster Pilot said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Oh and the TV no longer works due to digital switchover which is annoying
Got to be a way to fix that - does it have an external video in port?Great Pretender said:
They are expensive to run. End of story. I'm not some harbinger of doom; I am simply a realist.
Well done getting yours to 140k. Irrespective of whether you or someone else put those miles on it, there will have been some money spent on it at some point in time however. To pretend otherwise (even by implication), is simply nonsense.
Ref. your 'standard E39 parts' comment: you are wrong. In fact, most of the parts (which actually fail through wear and tear) are M5 specific. Put it this way, with the two E39 M5s that I've ownwed, I haven't spent a penny replacing a common E39 part. Actually, I tell a lie: I once replaced a heater resistor out of the combined £9k I spent maintaining them over a total of 20k miles. Both were low mileage when I bought them incidentally.
And ironically, the VANOS isn't actually an issue on these cars - pre or post facelift. Problems tend to arise with the solenoids/actuators on early cars, but even then it's rare for a failure to occur. The VANOS itself is largely bullet proof. Where you are getting confused is with the modifiction to the VANOS on facelift cars which included an oil accumlutor to quieten down the VANOS on start-up. Otherwise the mechanicals remained the same (note: I'm only talking about the VANOS here).
If you're still seething, take a look at my profile for a second. You'll note that I might just have the experience to back up my statements
Your profile doesn't interest me, and neither do the backtracking comments you found on google via the vanos, and I'm not seething. What you have is a list of M cars listed in your car profile, probably all beautifully maintained. But even if your profile said you were a BMW certified mechanic I would still call you a numpty.Well done getting yours to 140k. Irrespective of whether you or someone else put those miles on it, there will have been some money spent on it at some point in time however. To pretend otherwise (even by implication), is simply nonsense.
Ref. your 'standard E39 parts' comment: you are wrong. In fact, most of the parts (which actually fail through wear and tear) are M5 specific. Put it this way, with the two E39 M5s that I've ownwed, I haven't spent a penny replacing a common E39 part. Actually, I tell a lie: I once replaced a heater resistor out of the combined £9k I spent maintaining them over a total of 20k miles. Both were low mileage when I bought them incidentally.
And ironically, the VANOS isn't actually an issue on these cars - pre or post facelift. Problems tend to arise with the solenoids/actuators on early cars, but even then it's rare for a failure to occur. The VANOS itself is largely bullet proof. Where you are getting confused is with the modifiction to the VANOS on facelift cars which included an oil accumlutor to quieten down the VANOS on start-up. Otherwise the mechanicals remained the same (note: I'm only talking about the VANOS here).
If you're still seething, take a look at my profile for a second. You'll note that I might just have the experience to back up my statements
Your knowledge seems to extend to drawing out the plastic and thumping it down on the table, not that impressive.
So I'll re-iterate. There is nothing complicated about the E39 M5. Its not a scary complex vehicle which will suck untold money out of your bank account, unless you are the sort of person whos time is precious enough to warrent just paying the money over. If that is the case, then fair enough, but then you shouldn't be avocating there is no other alternative to spending big bucks on the car.
Its not an expensive car to run, thats popularist b
ks of the type that is on pistonheads far too much. MOST OF THE PARTS ARE COMMON TO THE WHOLE E39 range.Like most BMW's there is ample information on the net and easy to use diagnostic systems for the car which are easily obtainable.
I'm afraid there is little point in further posts on this subject as I don't think you and I will agree, however this post is not to convince you, its to simply add counter comment for all those who might be thinking about the car and be put off by the often regurgitated, but totally wrong 'Its a 60K supercar, if you aren't paying out £3K a year to BMW your cars a dog' rubbish.
Ok so I've only had E34 M5, 540i and B10 as well as an E39 B10 but I have to mention (for people considering stepping into M ownership) that bits for genuine 'M' cars are a good deal more expensive than their contemporary range and the engines, due to their extended output are more highly stressed and subsequently more vulnerable to premature demise if not maintained pretty much exactly as the service book intended.
They are however magnificent cars, if not quite as exclusive as their Buchloe cousins........ ;-)
They are however magnificent cars, if not quite as exclusive as their Buchloe cousins........ ;-)
Frik said:
Don't you think it's a bit arrogant to be so dismissive of someone who has a lot of experience of these cars? What makes you the expert?
I can see julian64's point-of-view, to a degree.It's of limited value for GP to toss out figures of GBP9K for running an M5 without adding some detail about what exactly those costs represented.
Every car will need a clutch at some point, a set of brakes, a set of tyres - if you replace those all at once, then you will get a large bill, but a clutch is a one off, a vanos rebuild is a one-off etc.
A ten year old 520i equally has the potential to hand in big bills for one off rebuild items.
I like to read about ownership costs, but without the details it can be misleading.
It's misleading to say M-cars are as cheap to run as the cooking models. The majority of parts may well be the same, but the ones that are most likely to break, and the ones that cost a lot more to replace, are the M-specific parts. The E39 M5 is no exception. Could be worse though. Could be an E60...
I think the lesson is that, sooner or later, and depending on where an owner falls in that cycle an 'M' car owner will face big bills and they will be considerably bigger than if the car had been the best-of-the-rest BMW range; whether the owner at that point decides to pay the full bill or skimp, scrape or avoid that bill will eventually decide the bork level and ultimately the fate of the vehicle in question.....
I say this having just faced an out of the blue 1.5k+ bill for two front strut rebuilds for my M635......which I paid as I intend to keep the car on the road and in tip-top road going condition.
I say this having just faced an out of the blue 1.5k+ bill for two front strut rebuilds for my M635......which I paid as I intend to keep the car on the road and in tip-top road going condition.
Edited by E24man on Tuesday 3rd January 23:33
Very true. Though I would add that they can still cost quite a lot, even if the day of major bork never arrives. My E36 M3 certainly wasn't cheap and nothing went seriously wrong in my ownership. Luckily I knew nothing of the two new blocks and multiple full VANOS replacement that it had already had.
BOR said:
Frik said:
Don't you think it's a bit arrogant to be so dismissive of someone who has a lot of experience of these cars? What makes you the expert?
I can see julian64's point-of-view, to a degree.It's of limited value for GP to toss out figures of GBP9K for running an M5 without adding some detail about what exactly those costs represented.
Every car will need a clutch at some point, a set of brakes, a set of tyres - if you replace those all at once, then you will get a large bill, but a clutch is a one off, a vanos rebuild is a one-off etc.
A ten year old 520i equally has the potential to hand in big bills for one off rebuild items.
I like to read about ownership costs, but without the details it can be misleading.
I don't consider myself a car expert, but I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't take a car expert to challenge what he is saying. I have an M5 BMW E39. Its cost not a lot in ownage over the past seven years. I HAVE REPLACED THE CLUTCH in the car and it wasn't any more difficult than when I recently replaced the clutch in an E36 for my father, and the clutch pack was similarly priced. Over the time I have had the car, and the jobs I can remember I have done the normal servicing, replaced two wheel bearings, one caliper, rear axle mounts, one brake tube, and a number of electrical gremlins including rear bonnet failure, not charging, restraint system packing up etc etc. I researched vanos to buy a car after the vanos upgrade, and went in with my eyes open by researching what I would need to do if I had a vanos problem. Unlike almost any other car the information to do almost any job on a BMW is posted all over the internet, including the M cars, and the parts are plentiful in supply.
I don't think my list of problems were any more than what I would have expected of a standard car with now 140K on the clock, or any less. The costs of replacement items have been very reasonable, and the car is the same as any BMW, a pleasure to work on, compared with TVRs et al. If I had taken that car to a dealer for that lot I could easily see a bill for over 9K in any one year.
I'm not critisizing anyone for being the sort of person who takes that lot to a BMW to sort out, or likes their normal servicing to end with an official BMW stamp. I am critising him for posting that there is only one way to maintain a BMW, and you have to have deep pockets. It simply isn't true, and whether he is an owner with a lot a experience or none at all, to post that is wrong, and pretty damn discouraging for anyone looking at these cars who is prepared to put the effort in.
Frik said:
It's misleading to say M-cars are as cheap to run as the cooking models. The majority of parts may well be the same, but the ones that are most likely to break, and the ones that cost a lot more to replace, are the M-specific parts. The E39 M5 is no exception. Could be worse though. Could be an E60...
- shudder*
Harry Flashman said:
- shudder*
julian64 said:
I'm not critisizing anyone for being the sort of person who takes that lot to a BMW to sort out, or likes their normal servicing to end with an official BMW stamp. I am critising him for posting that there is only one way to maintain a BMW, and you have to have deep pockets. It simply isn't true, and whether he is an owner with a lot a experience or none at all, to post that is wrong, and pretty damn discouraging for anyone looking at these cars who is prepared to put the effort in.
Julian: Stop talking bloomin sense... I can feel myself aquiring a E39 M5 for my 550 mile round commute! This could mean my Garage doesn't get built and my small fleet will suffer. I will have to hold you responsible. julian64 said:
the car is the same as any BMW, a pleasure to work on
I'll agree with this! My M5 is my 3rd E39, and I have done bits of work on all of them - thermostats, water pumps, brakes, starter motor, water cooled alternator, removing the dash and centre console to fit a leather dash top, oil changes, etc.. They're awesome cars to work on. You can really tell BMW have thought about ease of maintenance when designing these cars. Even things like the push fit coolant hoses with retaining clips. More expensive no doubt, but make it much nicer to work on.
I bought my M5 for £4000 back in July, and have spent just over £3k on it since. The majority of that was having a load of engine work done though, which cost £2400 (Vanos rebuilt, new bearing shells, new waterpump and thermostat, a few sensors and followers all done by Mr Vanos).
I would have done it myself, but the Vanos seemed quite daunting, and he only charged £500 for the bearings (it was about £350 in parts), and it made sense for him to do the thermostat, pump and other stuff whilst he had the engine in pieces.
It's an awesome car, and the only reason I could ever see myself changing it would be if I decided it was becoming too expensive to maintain, but now that the engine is sweet, it should be fine. Just routine maintenance and a few more small jobs.
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