RE: Bloodhound SSC - "we're winning!"
Discussion
German said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
can't recruit engineers?
Seems to be one of these things that is slightly conflicting. Can't recruit engineers... Yet there are probably loads of engineers out there wanting a job... they just don't tick all the many boxes the recruitment people unrealistically expect of people. But I bet that is also because aren't willing to pay for good engineering talent. We here this argument all the time, that big companies pay top employees vast amounts of dough as a means of keeping and attracting the top "talent". Why doesn't this apply in engineering? heck it should apply in any job... you want the best, pay the best. simple.
Any Engineers looking for good pay, job prospects and respect should learn German, simple as that. Currently need 80,000 new engineers and there are so few studying the required amount will only increase. Also every other tit cant call themselves a "waste water management engineer" (that'd make you the poo pipe unblocker then would it mate?) so its still a respected thing to do Seems to be one of these things that is slightly conflicting. Can't recruit engineers... Yet there are probably loads of engineers out there wanting a job... they just don't tick all the many boxes the recruitment people unrealistically expect of people. But I bet that is also because aren't willing to pay for good engineering talent. We here this argument all the time, that big companies pay top employees vast amounts of dough as a means of keeping and attracting the top "talent". Why doesn't this apply in engineering? heck it should apply in any job... you want the best, pay the best. simple.
Actually, I think engineering pay in the UK must be amongst the lowest in the developed world. I wanted to work in the UK at one time, but was turned off by how low remuneration would be compared to engineering jobs elsewhere. I was not aware of the lack of clarity regarding the title 'engineer' in the UK, but that might explain part of the difference.
Just get involved in an LSR project. When I joined Bloodhound it was just a design engineering job, albeit acreally exciting and interesting one.
Having seen the passion and commitment of the team it has become more than that. Its like a family, it really gets under your skin like you would never belive possible.
Having seen the passion and commitment of the team it has become more than that. Its like a family, it really gets under your skin like you would never belive possible.
R500POP said:
Just get involved in an LSR project. When I joined Bloodhound it was just a design engineering job, albeit acreally exciting and interesting one.
Having seen and heard that this week too, I can fully concur. This is a fantastic project, thrilling yet one also being conducted in a highly professional way, and I hope the momentum continues to build. You guys deserve it!richardaucock said:
Having seen and heard that this week too, I can fully concur. This is a fantastic project, thrilling yet one also being conducted in a highly professional way, and I hope the momentum continues to build. You guys deserve it!
It was a pleasure to present to some of you guys this week. First time ive had to present to 'adults'.ptn said:
98elise said:
ptn said:
Thanks for simplifying...
I'm merely saying that in Germany (as well as other countries) engineers (i.e. those with an engineering degree) earn the right to put a state recognised prefix in front of their name (Ingr) - much like a Doctor. Doctors get a lot of respect because of the jobs they do (whether interesting or not) and because people understand the hard work involved in getting to that level. Why should this be any different to the engineering profession?
Now, I don't know whether you're an engineer but judging by your response I'd say not. It's annoying having your achievements diluted by any Tom, Dick or Harry that can tighten a nut.
I'll make this very simple; the term engineer should be reserved solely for engineers.
Just to clarify a few points....I'm merely saying that in Germany (as well as other countries) engineers (i.e. those with an engineering degree) earn the right to put a state recognised prefix in front of their name (Ingr) - much like a Doctor. Doctors get a lot of respect because of the jobs they do (whether interesting or not) and because people understand the hard work involved in getting to that level. Why should this be any different to the engineering profession?
Now, I don't know whether you're an engineer but judging by your response I'd say not. It's annoying having your achievements diluted by any Tom, Dick or Harry that can tighten a nut.
I'll make this very simple; the term engineer should be reserved solely for engineers.
The term engineer is correctly used to describe someone who works in the field of engineering ( citation: OED). It does not need protection. This is how its always been.
CEng IEng etc ARE protected (engineering council) in the UK.
You do not need a degree to be an engineer even CEng. My Father is a non degree CEng with 40 years design experience.
I was following the same path until I realised that other careers pay more.
If a few degree educated engineers feel belittled by that then they need to make their own term up. Not try to nick a term thats been around for 100 + years.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 20th July 14:45
Your father has obviously put a lot of time and effort into his profession and I respect him that. The fact that he has achieved CEng status without a degree isn't my issue - he is a professional engineer. It's the old fashioned view that is held of engineers within this country. It's no wonder that we are struggling to get young people involved in the profession when it is seen as a dirty job due to the many jobs that are free to use the title.
Engineering is a technologically advanced career and hopefully projects like Bloodhound will allow young people to see that.
This is a country of unsung innovators who should be held in the same stature as lawyers and doctors etc but sadly aren't.
And yes there are careers that pay more but to a lot it's not all about the money.
If companies are having a problem recruiting engineeers, then they are not paying enough. Plumbing is a popular profession because it pays well, and its can be a really s
t job (did you see what I did there ). If they start paying as much as I can get in IT then I might even go back. I earn significant amount more than my CEng Father, and thats a shame.If people don't want to go into Engineering because there don't want to be accociated with the nuts and bolts end, then they really need to look as a different profession. Its the nuts and bolts stuff that drives engineers. When I moved into the management structure I loved the times I could get back to the coal face.
Even now I work in IT, I prefer to write code than designing and specifying stuff. Its a great feeling when you start with nothing and end up with something that serves a purpose. A 100 page specification will never gives the same pleasure.
richardaucock said:
Having seen and heard that this week too, I can fully concur. This is a fantastic project, thrilling yet one also being conducted in a highly professional way, and I hope the momentum continues to build. You guys deserve it!
It was a pleasure to present to some of you guys this week. First time ive had to present to 'adults'.anonymous said:
[redacted]
A lot of the cost and time involved with the Raptor is caused by designing the materials, manufacturing processes (Bloodhound won't be mass produced, although neither will the F22 now it's been canned), weapons systems, training of pilots, extensive testing for a vehicle that will be used over a twenty year period rather than once, a new engine (take from me when I say that a car engine takes upwards of three years from concept to production, so a jet engine...) and of course good old fashioned bureaucracy. The basic dynamics of supersonic flight are well understood and have been put to good use over the last fifty years. However, noone really knows how a vehicle will perform at 1000mph when trundling along a desert any more than what a computer has told them. While the F22 is undoubtably a more complex machine, the fact is that there are challenges and unknowns involved in making this vehicle that no aircraft designer needs to overcome. Take the wheels for example...
Comments like this are what contribute to the under appreciation of engineering in this country.
thewheelman said:
ptn said:
Sounds like a nice job! I'm the guy who gets to play around with fast cars and take them around the world (not as often as I'd like it must be said).
.
. Yet you choose to live in the midlands & drive an old 3 series?.
I felt the need to explain myself for a minute there but I'll let you work out for yourself why your comment is so stupid.
richardaucock said:
Having seen and heard that this week too, I can fully concur. This is a fantastic project, thrilling yet one also being conducted in a highly professional way, and I hope the momentum continues to build. You guys deserve it!
It was a pleasure to present to some of you guys this week. First time ive had to present to 'adults'.ptn said:
thewheelman said:
ptn said:
Sounds like a nice job! I'm the guy who gets to play around with fast cars and take them around the world (not as often as I'd like it must be said).
.
. Yet you choose to live in the midlands & drive an old 3 series?.
I felt the need to explain myself for a minute there but I'll let you work out for yourself why your comment is so stupid.
I was lucky enough to attend a Royal Aeronautical Society lecture in Southampton presented by a team from Thrust SSC. A fascinating insight in to the tremendous engineering problems being presented to them by a land vehicle travelling at 1000mph. I signed up straight after and can't wait to see it in action in the UK when they test it.
thewheelman said:
ptn said:
thewheelman said:
ptn said:
Sounds like a nice job! I'm the guy who gets to play around with fast cars and take them around the world (not as often as I'd like it must be said).
.
. Yet you choose to live in the midlands & drive an old 3 series?.
I felt the need to explain myself for a minute there but I'll let you work out for yourself why your comment is so stupid.
I live in the Midlands because it's where I carry out most of my work and I drive what I do because frankly, it's a very well rounded car and unbelievably you're not able to keep the cars you test...
As you were clearly unable to see the error of your ways, I have spelled it out for you. You're very welcome.
Just when I was starting to feel proud about being British again, Wiggo wining Le Tour, reading about the latest Bloodhound developments...then I made the mistake of reading the comments. Clearing rocks an environmental disaster, a Corsa doing 1,000mph in three years, 'Can't get excited about this'. Yuck.
MiseryStreak said:
Just when I was starting to feel proud about being British again, Wiggo wining Le Tour, reading about the latest Bloodhound developments...then I made the mistake of reading the comments. Clearing rocks an environmental disaster, a Corsa doing 1,000mph in three years, 'Can't get excited about this'. Yuck.
I know, I know. It's a fked up world, aint it!ptn said:
I'll make this very simple; the term engineer should be reserved solely for engineers.
So, with 35 years in high performance aircraft design & with accredited signatory status, but educated on the shop floor / design office of an actual factory rather than in a sterile university, you're telling me I shouldn't be calling myself engineer? What wound you suggest?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff