RE: Is VW going to buy Lotus?
Discussion
Elise TDI available soon? 
I believe it's been done by a few owners. Aye Laddie, ya ra we sassanac so ya are, I'm fae north o'the border ya wee barm, Hadrian was reet ta' build yon wall ta keep ya' heathen English ass's oot!
Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
Can I have that comment again, but this time in the Queens English grammar? It looks like some 5 year old spilt all the letters out of a scrabble bag?
so no good reason you have for layout jaring that is? I'd love to know what the reason is, even if it makes me feel silly for not being able to work it out for myself. Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.
I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?E38Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.
Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it. Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
CBR JGWRR said:
900T-R said:
What, because it doesn't steer like a truck and it isn't impossible to see where you're going from the driver's seat? 
That is eactly the problem. They don't try to kill you any more...The old ones felt like they were hiding in the shadows waiting with knives, and rocket launchers, and machine guns, ready to kill you in many many strange and unusual ways.
The new ones are too safe.
Interesting to see all the comments about VAG ruining the brand and all the negatives potrayed by the 'purists' who'll probably never own one regardless who buys them (if anyone).
The one thing any company requires to move forward, first and foremost, is a stable financial footing. Arguably, something Lotus has never had. VAG can provide Lotus with that, surely this has to be a good thing for all the workers in Norfolk as well as the future of the Brand, if VAG do aquire it!!!
I for one, see the underlying benefits (right or wrong)of perceived improvements in quality and reliability that VAG might bring to Lotus, thus encouraging the wider market to accept them as a viable investment for their own hard earned.
Who really want's to put £30k+ into a sports car (however good) when you don't know if they're going to be around in 12 months and able to supply parts to keep it on the road? Surely removing such uncertain aspects can only be good for Lotus longer term.
Whether VAG have been entirely successful at maintaing the ethos of other brands they've purchased are subjective to the minority, but to the masses who actually buy them, I would argue they're perfectly happy with the security of backing VAG provide in terms of their investment and the fact the cars don't want to break down of kill them any more.
cjb1 said:
Aye Laddie, ya ra we sassanac so ya are, I'm fae north o'the border ya wee barm, Hadrian was reet ta' build yon wall ta keep ya' heathen English ass's oot!
Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
Why do you reply above your quotes?Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
Can I have that comment again, but this time in the Queens English grammar? It looks like some 5 year old spilt all the letters out of a scrabble bag?
so no good reason you have for layout jaring that is? I'd love to know what the reason is, even if it makes me feel silly for not being able to work it out for myself. Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.
I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?E38Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.
Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it. Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
Scuffers said:
with respect, exactly what have Lotus got that VW does not already have?
I would suggest the last thing they need is Lotus Engineering, they have more than enough capabilities in-house already.
As for Lotus cars, once again, what would they do with them?
Maybe Lotus could show them how to make a car handle AND ride well I would suggest the last thing they need is Lotus Engineering, they have more than enough capabilities in-house already.
As for Lotus cars, once again, what would they do with them?
Saying this as a Lotus owner (a real one built when Lotus was owned by Lotus so falls apart authentically and everything) I can only see the positives of VAG ownership. It's not as if Proton would be every dyed-in-the-wool Lotus fanatic's first choice for parent company of their beloved marque, but despite that Lotus have continued to make great cars.
Can someone please explain to me how VW might f
k up Lotus as a brand? They're not suddenly going to add 300kg to every Elise just for the hell of it as nobody will buy one (What's that you say, Exige S?) Using VW engines and drivetrains can't be a bad thing either, no worse than the Rover K-Series or Toyota units.
Can someone please explain to me how VW might f
k up Lotus as a brand? They're not suddenly going to add 300kg to every Elise just for the hell of it as nobody will buy one (What's that you say, Exige S?) Using VW engines and drivetrains can't be a bad thing either, no worse than the Rover K-Series or Toyota units.MiseryStreak said:
Saying this as a Lotus owner (a real one built when Lotus was owned by Lotus so falls apart authentically and everything) I can only see the positives of VAG ownership. It's not as if Proton would be every dyed-in-the-wool Lotus fanatic's first choice for parent company of their beloved marque, but despite that Lotus have continued to make great cars.
Isn't that mostly because Proton have pretty much left Lotus to their own devices though?MiseryStreak said:
Can someone please explain to me how VW might fk up Lotus as a brand? They're not suddenly going to add 300kg to every Elise just for the hell of it as nobody will buy one (What's that you say, Exige S?) Using VW engines and drivetrains can't be a bad thing either, no worse than the Rover K-Series or Toyota units.
I don't think it's the engines. But people moan about build quality, so how do you think VW might address this?k up Lotus as a brand? They're not suddenly going to add 300kg to every Elise just for the hell of it as nobody will buy one (What's that you say, Exige S?) Using VW engines and drivetrains can't be a bad thing either, no worse than the Rover K-Series or Toyota units.Lets remember handbuilt small production cars will always be somewhat hashed together, it's just part of making cars on a small scale without a fully robotised production line.
But the simplest thing would be to introduce mass produced parts, so all VAG switchgear, HVAC, electronics and so on. And suddenly it won't be a Lotus, just another VAG wearing a different dress.
While you're harmonising this, wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to maybe co develop either a new TT or a 3 cylinder Boxster sharing major components with the Lotus?
I just can't see it remaining Lotus in anything but marketing over the mid to longer term.
DanDC5 said:
Shurv said:
Perhaps Lotus could persuade Akio Toyoda to buy them,he's on a crusade to bring good sports cars back, so here's an opportunity.
This would be the perfect scenario.They've been working an tandem for ages anyway what with using modified Toyota engines throughout the range.
I'd say this:
-Toyota to buy Lotus.
-Toyota to use Lotus at least in part as an advanced engineering facility, making Toyotas better to drive as well as their own sports cars (the GT86 is a good start, but the rest of their range is boring as hell).
-Use Toyota's economies of scale to mass-produce the Elise (possibly at Burnaston) to be sold at an MX5-rivalling price. Still keep the S, but the basic model could be sold for £20-25k if they were churning out thousands per year on semi-automated production lines.
-Tetsuya Tada to be installed as boss of Lotus. He knows more than most in the automotive business what makes for a great sports car. His approach to engineering the GT86 was very Chapmanesque.
-Get the 'new Elite' out as a Lotus-reworked, glassfibre-bodied reworking of the GT86 with a load more power (maybe with a flat-six or at least forced induction), almost as-per the 1982 Excel (which used the gearbox, propshaft, final drive, brakes and diff from the Supra, eliminating the troublesome Eclat setup overnight).
-Ongoing engine development will see the Evora/Elan and Esprit receive brand-new, cutting-edge powerplants that will see service (in different states of tune) in Lexuses too.
-Rather than doing their own pricy four-door, Lotus to do proper successors to the Lotus Cortina and Carlton, based on the Toyota Avensis and Lexus IS. Enter a Lotus-branded 'factory' NGTC Avensis in the BTCC and a brutal wide-arched V8 GS in DTM.
-In places where Lotus dealer networks are patchy, sell them through Lexus dealers.
-Fully buy out the Lotus F1 team to prevent ongoing confusion, albeit retaining Renault as an engine supplier to keep pace with Red Bull (we all know what happened last time Toyota made F1 engines).
Does it matter headmaster? Why don't you stick to the bloody OP you cock? Frankly I'm starting to get frustrated with wazzocks like you who seem to come on PH's under false pretences pretending to be a petrolhead when in actual fact you're just a petty fool looking for an arguement or to critisise
Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
Aye Laddie, ya ra we sassanac so ya are, I'm fae north o'the border ya wee barm, Hadrian was reet ta' build yon wall ta keep ya' heathen English ass's oot!
Does it really matter ‘headmaster’? Why don't you stick to the bloody OP you cock? Frankly I, along with a lot of other PH’ers, am starting to get frustrated with wazzocks like you who seem to come on PH's under false pretences pretending to be a petrolhead when in actual fact you're just a petty fool looking for an argument or to criticise other genuine enthusiasts, now back to VAG, Proton and the effect it may have on Lotus’s future please……..
Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
Why do you reply above your quotes?Does it really matter ‘headmaster’? Why don't you stick to the bloody OP you cock? Frankly I, along with a lot of other PH’ers, am starting to get frustrated with wazzocks like you who seem to come on PH's under false pretences pretending to be a petrolhead when in actual fact you're just a petty fool looking for an argument or to criticise other genuine enthusiasts, now back to VAG, Proton and the effect it may have on Lotus’s future please……..
Here, '''''', ya can hay 'em back caz a dinnae need 'em.
Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
Can I have that comment again, but this time in the Queens English grammar? It looks like some 5 year old spilt all the letters out of a scrabble bag?
so no good reason you have for layout jaring that is? I'd love to know what the reason is, even if it makes me feel silly for not being able to work it out for myself. Captain Muppet said:
cjb1 said:
+ 1, where has the mystique of the Miura and the loony tunes Countach gone? That willingness to buck the boring trend just isn't there anymore, what has the modern Lambo got that an R8 hasn't? Panash that's what.
I'm curious: how do you people not spot that nearly everyone else replies below the post they quoted? Do you read it back and think "that jars unpleasently with the way we read everything else, job done"?E38Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
Personally I find almost no interest in VW Lambo's, they are not the same bonkers vehicles they once were. I admit I've not driven any, but every road test I've watched or read seems to suggest they are not remotely similar cars to what they once were.
Does it really matter ‘headmaster’? Why don't you stick to the bloody OP you cock? Frankly I, along with a lot of other PH’ers, am starting to get frustrated with wazzocks like you who seem to come on PH's under false pretences pretending to be a petrolhead when in actual fact you're just a petty fool looking for an argument or to criticise other genuine enthusiasts, now back to VAG, Proton and the effect it may have on Lotus’s future please……..
Most reviews I've read have said the same, and that they're much better for it. Does it really matter ‘headmaster’? Why don't you stick to the bloody OP you cock? Frankly I, along with a lot of other PH’ers, am starting to get frustrated with wazzocks like you who seem to come on PH's under false pretences pretending to be a petrolhead when in actual fact you're just a petty fool looking for an argument or to criticise other genuine enthusiasts, now back to VAG, Proton and the effect it may have on Lotus’s future please……..
Also have some of these '''''''''''''
They might come in handy the next time you want to get pedantic about the "Queens English".
Not read the full thread but if it did happen the only thing I could see happening are 2 routes:
A lotus badged VW Bluesport roadster to make a better business case for Audi/Porsche on economies of scale to make that car.
And secondly Lotus being turned into a track day only (well can drive it to and from the track) car base within the VW group as thats an area they dont really have, plus it fits the specialist nature of Lotus and is a big market these days, would it be a sustainable business who knows.
A lotus badged VW Bluesport roadster to make a better business case for Audi/Porsche on economies of scale to make that car.
And secondly Lotus being turned into a track day only (well can drive it to and from the track) car base within the VW group as thats an area they dont really have, plus it fits the specialist nature of Lotus and is a big market these days, would it be a sustainable business who knows.
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