RE: Subaru BRZ vs Toyota GT86

[Pixelpeep]

kambites said:

Pixelpeep said:

totally relevant!

I disagree, and by the sounds of it so does almost everyone else on the thread.

I'll book an appointment with my therapist in anticipation

[Pixelpeep]

kambites said:

You might as well just write a bot that automatically puts a comment saying "a second hand car will offer better value" into every thread about a new car.

why, do you think they do offer better value?

[kambites]

Pixelpeep said:

kambites said:

You might as well just write a bot that automatically puts a comment saying "a second hand car will offer better value" into every thread about a new car.

why, do you think they do offer better value?

Yes, I do. I just thing it has nothing to do with this thread.

[Pixelpeep]

kambites said:

Pixelpeep said:

kambites said:

You might as well just write a bot that automatically puts a comment saying "a second hand car will offer better value" into every thread about a new car.

why, do you think they do offer better value?

Yes, I do. I just thing it has nothing to do with this thread.

lol ok, in fairness to the thread. if i HAD to decide between the two, it'd be the Subrau - for nothing other than the performance legacy of the brand.

[bicycleshorts]

Pixelpeep said:

lol ok, in fairness to the thread. if i HAD to decide between the two, it'd be the Subrau - for nothing other than the performance legacy of the brand.

ETA: Though I'd agree that in the last few years they've been a bit 'boring'. Not that Subaru have been any better, pulling out of WRC/changing to hatchback etc.

Edited by bicycleshorts on Tuesday 14th August 18:11

[Rawwr]

I took a GT86 out on test drive the other week and was massively disappointed by its performance. Off-road it really struggled on any kind of wet and muddy incline and frankly it'd have been easier if I'd got out and walked! After the slippery uphill was out of the way, the descent was a vision of a nightmare; I just had no control over where it was going as there was just no mechanical grip from the tyres and lack of low-range, four-wheel drive and diff lock just made things worse. Disappointingly, the stupid damn car bottomed out at the bottom of the hill, too! If it wasn't for a friendly Discovery owner, I could've been there all day and well into the night.

Toyota really need to rethink this.

[otolith]

Someone always pops up with "I'd rather have a used <german brand> than <x>" - unless <x> is itself a German brand, in which case it's either a bargain or else they'd rather have a similarly priced new car from a different German brand.

[300bhp/ton]

otolith said:

1/4 mile is just a standard benchmark, they use it for minivans too, doesn't mean that the car is going to appeal to people interested in drag racing.

I don't mean to be funny about it, but I seriously think you are under estimating the appeal State side, even for cars which we Brits wouldn't consider for drag racing.

One very quick search: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76...

Have a read some are claiming 1st rwd car, so have gone to track to try it out. I suspect this is pretty common across any Scion/Subaru board where the FR-S or BRZ are being discussed.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 14th August 18:39

[richardaucock]

jon- said:

I've no idea, but having back-to-backed both recently on the same car, that could be more than enough to make the difference between the two.

Whoever wrote this article, can you help us? Or Max, can you zoom in on the original photos and see the tyres?

Both were on Michelin Primacys, Jon. It was the first check I made when I jumped out (lightbulb quickly extinguished...) - they're possibly keeping the Energy Savers over in Japan.

[Chris71]

hornetrider said:

Drag racing is a huge pass time.

I see what you did there.

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

I don't mean to be funny about it, but I seriously think you are under estimating the appeal State side, even for cars which we Brits wouldn't consider for drag racing.

One very quick search: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76...

Well, frankly, any American who buys a GT86 and then complains that it isn't good enough at drag racing is a dick, because if that was what they wanted in a car they could instead have had a 300bhp Mustang and $3000 to tune it.

Our magazines put even very mundane cars round test tracks, and some people take cars which are not optimised for the track to track days, but that does not mean that every car needs to shine on track.

[StormLoaded]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-6rLVeR2o

this review found the same, i think it boils down to your driving style as much as the badge..
the guy that (i guess) was more aggressive was 1+sec quicker round the track in the Toyota, the other guy, that clearly loved the sharper Subaru, (perhaps the smoother driver), was 1+ sec quicker round the track in the Subaru than he was in the Toyota.
both named their respective faster lap cars as their favourites to drive.
however they did say its such a small difference in setup, but it boils down to your driving style as much as anything.
- as mentioned already in the comments, its known the cars have different suspension setups, those are the only differences as far as im aware (same tyres etc).

Car: Front OE Spring Rate:
BRZ 27 N/mm (153 lbs/in)
GT86 23 N/mm (131 lbs/in)

Rear OE Spring Rate:
BRZ 34 N/mm (195 lbs/in)
GT86 37 N/mm (211 lbs/in)

personally i prefer the Toyotas front end.. (and fake carbon vs slab of silver), so is lucky for me SWMBO works for Mr T and not Mr S

[300bhp/ton]

otolith said:

Well, frankly, any American who buys a GT86 and then complains that it isn't good enough at drag racing is a dick, because if that was what they wanted in a car they could instead have had a 300bhp Mustang and $3000 to tune it.

Our magazines put even very mundane cars round test tracks, and some people take cars which are not optimised for the track to track days, but that does not mean that every car needs to shine on track.

Never said they did. No need to get defensive about it as i wasn't saying anything negative about the GT86. I was merely pointing out people will take it to track. From that thread it looked as though they were quite pleased and that th manual was actually quite capable. High 14's would hint at well below 7 sec to 60mph.

[Rich_p]

If you prefer the look of one but the handling of the other then change the springs?

A couple of hundred quid extra is nothing if you've just spent 25k on a car

[Kawasicki]

StormLoaded said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-6rLVeR2o

this review found the same, i think it boils down to your driving style as much as the badge..
the guy that (i guess) was more aggressive was 1+sec quicker round the track in the Toyota, the other guy, that clearly loved the sharper Subaru, (perhaps the smoother driver), was 1+ sec quicker round the track in the Subaru than he was in the Toyota.
both named their respective faster lap cars as their favourites to drive.
however they did say its such a small difference in setup, but it boils down to your driving style as much as anything.
- as mentioned already in the comments, its known the cars have different suspension setups, those are the only differences as far as im aware (same tyres etc).

Car: Front OE Spring Rate:
BRZ 27 N/mm (153 lbs/in)
GT86 23 N/mm (131 lbs/in)

Rear OE Spring Rate:
BRZ 34 N/mm (195 lbs/in)
GT86 37 N/mm (211 lbs/in)

personally i prefer the Toyotas front end.. (and fake carbon vs slab of silver), so is lucky for me SWMBO works for Mr T and not Mr S

With such huge differences in both spring rates and front to rear ratio it's pretty funny that people say they can't feel any (or only small) differences between the cars. Are the anti roll bar diameters identical?

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

Never said they did. No need to get defensive about it as i wasn't saying anything negative about the GT86. I was merely pointing out people will take it to track. From that thread it looked as though they were quite pleased and that th manual was actually quite capable. High 14's would hint at well below 7 sec to 60mph.

Yep - wasn't saying that you couldn't take it drag racing or that nobody would, just that it's the wrong car if you want to win against what else you could have bought. Likewise it would be quicker round a track if they'd fitted firmer suspension and cup tyres, but that would detract from what they were trying to achieve with it. So I'd definitely pick one for a track day, but probably not for a race!

[DeanHelix]

NITO said:

Hello...

There's a massive separator between the two, come on... 5 years 100K warranty or 3 years 60k?? That would firmly swing it in favour of the GT86, combined with a vaster dealer network and it will have stronger residuals taking the warranty offering into account.

Well done Toyota then.

Edited by NITO on Tuesday 14th August 21:19

If that's true, and residuals of the GT86 are better than the BRZ, that makes the Subaru a much better bet for buying used - same car for relatively cheaper!

OK, the nearest Subaru dealer is an hour away compared to 5mins up the road, but if the mechanicals are as bulletproof as people hope then its a once a year prospect, so no big deal really.

Are the service intervals the same (and what are they)?
How about the recommended cambelt change?

I'm thinking low mileage BRZ at 4 years, with a nice bit of depreciation and additional price drop as it falls out of dealership warranty.

[scholesy]

I shall be buying the Subaru version as it goes out of warranty, should drop in value nicely then. Also, because of the better after sales care offered by Toyota, the BRZ will be rarer, so eventually will have better residuals when the GT starts to come out of warranty and both are on a level playing field.

Please people, go ahead and buy these, buy them to your hearts content, spec them highly, for I shall sit here waiting for them to depreciate nicely

[astirling]

otolith said:

A used Audi RS4, M3 CSL or 630bhp Evo 8. Yes, I can see those would be sensible cars to run on a GT86 sized budget.

Clearly where Toyota are going wrong is in manufacturing new cars, they need to start selling second hand ones. Trouble is, where will your Audi, BMW and Mitsubishi come from, since you would have to be fking insane to spend fifty or sixty thousand pounds on a souped up saloon when you could have a used 911 turbo for that money. Of course, what with Porsche only selling used Lamborghinis, that might be a bit of a problem.

+1

If noone was 'insane' enough to buy a new car, then there would be no used cars for those such as the poster who shared the classified links to buy. fk me. Comes up so often on PH.

[Swordman]

Rawwr said:

I took a GT86 out on test drive the other week and was massively disappointed by its performance. Off-road it really struggled on any kind of wet and muddy incline and frankly it'd have been easier if I'd got out and walked! After the slippery uphill was out of the way, the descent was a vision of a nightmare; I just had no control over where it was going as there was just no mechanical grip from the tyres and lack of low-range, four-wheel drive and diff lock just made things worse. Disappointingly, the stupid damn car bottomed out at the bottom of the hill, too! If it wasn't for a friendly Discovery owner, I could've been there all day and well into the night.

Toyota really need to rethink this.

I didn't try it in the mud, but I took it rock crawling, instead. I, too, share your sentiment. I found the lack of solid axles in the front and rear to be a foolish oversight. It wouldn't have been that bad, but it lacks any meaningful ground clearance, either.

A Suzuki Jimny is way better and it costs way less! What were they thinking?!