Driver "aids" Why so many? Can no-one drive anymore?
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
You've been lucky then, because I've yet to encounter a car with rain-sensing wipers that actually work.
They seem great in my 1998 E39 5 series. They occasionally put in 3 or 4 consecutive wipes for no apparent reason, and they seem to do a wipe when you turn off the rear wiper, but other than that they're spot on. On my previous car, I was forever varying the timing of the intermittent in light drizzle (a little wheel on the top of the stalk).i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
I agree - although I wasn't aware Lotus had that. Which Lotus are we talking about here? If it's the new Exige it sounds unlikely as that doesn't even have PAS.i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
Which new Lotus drives for you? I'll be at the dealers on Tuesday and I'll ask about the self driving car.i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
Twincam16 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
I agree - although I wasn't aware Lotus had that. Which Lotus are we talking about here? If it's the new Exige it sounds unlikely as that doesn't even have PAS.i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
after rereading it, the computer is defiantly driving it
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=108&i=255...
Dave Hedgehog said:
certainly sounds like the computers driving it from the description here in at least a couple of its modes
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=108&i=255...
Be thankful that it also has a fully 'off' mode then too!http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=108&i=255...
Dave Hedgehog said:
Twincam16 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
I agree - although I wasn't aware Lotus had that. Which Lotus are we talking about here? If it's the new Exige it sounds unlikely as that doesn't even have PAS.i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=108&i=255...
Dave Hedgehog said:
Twincam16 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have a big problem with some driver aids
i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
I agree - although I wasn't aware Lotus had that. Which Lotus are we talking about here? If it's the new Exige it sounds unlikely as that doesn't even have PAS.i don't dislike reactive stuff like ABS and ESP, there like an instructor telling you you've got it wrong, and if you get it right you should never know they are there
its the proactive stuff i have an issue, such as the GTR, 458 fezza, MP4-12C and the new lotus, where the computers are correcting the car and actually driving it for you.
after rereading it, the computer is defiantly driving it
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=108&i=255...
Twincam16 said:
You've been lucky then, because I've yet to encounter a car with rain-sensing wipers that actually work.
It's especially annoying because in a lot of cars (including all from the VW Group), the 'auto' setting has replaced the 'intermittent' setting. For some reason they just don't sense the rain at all, leaving you with a windscreen full of raindrops and wiping once in a blue moon. As a result I end up having to put them on the first of the constant settings, which is too frequent for what I want them to do, so they'll end up making that fingers-down-a-blackboard scraping noise on a dry windscreen.
As a result, I end up having to press the column stalk down for a single wipe every time I want the wipers to clear drizzle - which surely misses the point of the 'labour-saving' approach of auto wipers in the first place. And we get rather a lot of drizzle in this country.
My Toyota, on the other hand, has a collar on the column that you twist when it's on the intermittent setting until you get the speed you want. It works perfectly. It's 20 years old.
The ones in my Clio a great 90% of the time - perfect for a long motorway trip when the amount of "rain" can vary quite a lot because of spray etcIt's especially annoying because in a lot of cars (including all from the VW Group), the 'auto' setting has replaced the 'intermittent' setting. For some reason they just don't sense the rain at all, leaving you with a windscreen full of raindrops and wiping once in a blue moon. As a result I end up having to put them on the first of the constant settings, which is too frequent for what I want them to do, so they'll end up making that fingers-down-a-blackboard scraping noise on a dry windscreen.
As a result, I end up having to press the column stalk down for a single wipe every time I want the wipers to clear drizzle - which surely misses the point of the 'labour-saving' approach of auto wipers in the first place. And we get rather a lot of drizzle in this country.
My Toyota, on the other hand, has a collar on the column that you twist when it's on the intermittent setting until you get the speed you want. It works perfectly. It's 20 years old.
The auto lights however have some quality moments of "WTF?" where they decide to come on in broad daylight but then again it is French
te as opposed to just sKaraK said:
Twincam16 said:
You've been lucky then, because I've yet to encounter a car with rain-sensing wipers that actually work.
It's especially annoying because in a lot of cars (including all from the VW Group), the 'auto' setting has replaced the 'intermittent' setting. For some reason they just don't sense the rain at all, leaving you with a windscreen full of raindrops and wiping once in a blue moon. As a result I end up having to put them on the first of the constant settings, which is too frequent for what I want them to do, so they'll end up making that fingers-down-a-blackboard scraping noise on a dry windscreen.
As a result, I end up having to press the column stalk down for a single wipe every time I want the wipers to clear drizzle - which surely misses the point of the 'labour-saving' approach of auto wipers in the first place. And we get rather a lot of drizzle in this country.
My Toyota, on the other hand, has a collar on the column that you twist when it's on the intermittent setting until you get the speed you want. It works perfectly. It's 20 years old.
The ones in my Clio a great 90% of the time - perfect for a long motorway trip when the amount of "rain" can vary quite a lot because of spray etcIt's especially annoying because in a lot of cars (including all from the VW Group), the 'auto' setting has replaced the 'intermittent' setting. For some reason they just don't sense the rain at all, leaving you with a windscreen full of raindrops and wiping once in a blue moon. As a result I end up having to put them on the first of the constant settings, which is too frequent for what I want them to do, so they'll end up making that fingers-down-a-blackboard scraping noise on a dry windscreen.
As a result, I end up having to press the column stalk down for a single wipe every time I want the wipers to clear drizzle - which surely misses the point of the 'labour-saving' approach of auto wipers in the first place. And we get rather a lot of drizzle in this country.
My Toyota, on the other hand, has a collar on the column that you twist when it's on the intermittent setting until you get the speed you want. It works perfectly. It's 20 years old.
The auto lights however have some quality moments of "WTF?" where they decide to come on in broad daylight but then again it is French
It's not when I'm driving a car with them, it's when I'm driving towards a car with them. On a number of occasions now, it's looked like the car is flashing its headlights at me, causing me to look for hazards that aren't there.
They really are an automation too far IMO. If you don't have the nous to put your headlights on when it's dark you really shouldn't be driving. I mean, do people who feel the need for this stuff do it in their house? Sit there reading a book in the evening thinking 'this is a bit dark' but not doing anything about it.
Also, they don't adjust for brightness well enough. There seem to be several that automatically put full beam on but don't dip it when there are other cars around, and the driver just sits there like a wally, unwittingly dazzling everyone.
Twincam16 said:
Auto lights are a real bugbear of mine, mainly when they decide to come on when a car passes under a bridge, or through a slightly darkened avenue of trees.
The First car I had with auto-headlights was bad for that sort of thing, lights would switch on and off going under a bridge - the newer ones have been much better.I generally like older 90s cars, the most up to date and reliable era without bongs and buzzers going off everywhere to remind you to breathe!..I like a car that has heavy weighty feel some steering, much prefered the amount of gadgets I had on my 1995 classic RR, to the multitude of unnecessary gizmos on my current 2009 model. A great car spoilt by the various noises, and I cant say I would miss the parking camera, heated steering wheel, electric seats or any of the other costly and breakable gadgets. As for cars with the park itself feature specified!!.. Really, if you cant paralell park you shouldnt be on the road. Even my sat nav only makes very rare appearances ( generally when outside the UK), I like to think I can navigate fairly astutely around the country where I live. For me my Corrado and E36 M3 Vert have an excellent everyday blend of comfort, convenience, gadgets and Even the 2004 Forester has bongs aplenty!... Infact, ideal garage is probably a Defender and an Elise/Chimaera.
Generally, society is becoming softer, lazier and totally gadget obsessed..if you watch the average person out and about they are constantly fiddling with their smart phone, frequently to the detriment of every basic preservation instinct!.. I have resisted the IPhone Zombies for a long time now, with my old slim Nokia being up to the jobI have an IPad for home,but I really think my life is better for not having the phone constantly in my hand...I'm such a Ludite, but happier for it
Generally, society is becoming softer, lazier and totally gadget obsessed..if you watch the average person out and about they are constantly fiddling with their smart phone, frequently to the detriment of every basic preservation instinct!.. I have resisted the IPhone Zombies for a long time now, with my old slim Nokia being up to the jobI have an IPad for home,but I really think my life is better for not having the phone constantly in my hand...I'm such a Ludite, but happier for it
S2Mike said:
Does anyone else despair of the manufacturers building cars with so many "aids" the driver is only a steering dummy!
Sorry but this seems like a comment about the good old days, having been in the good old day cars have been steered badly by lot of dummies since then; Driver aids have done nothing to make that worse. Things like auto-head lights have probably helped them not be so bad for the rest of us - i.e. you are less likely to come across a car being driven in dark with no lights. I worry when young people feel they couldn't drive without ABS - personally I worry when ABS saves me as I have badly misjudged something. I do believe making cars safer has increased the risks people are willing to make on roads - though I am not sure most people understand stopping distances now.
I can't help thinking you'd love some of the gadgets on my car - e.g. auto-hold
renrut said:
What a bizzare bit of equipment? Was this an option or did they all have it? I thought the idea of electric seats was too much, its not like I constantly move the seat while I'm driving...
Yep, standard on all the 3-series E92 coupes AFAIK, as a little hook on the side of the seat was no longer good enough 
Had to have both of mine replaced as they didn't work properly at the beginning, but luckily under warrantyThe car also had memory seats and mirrors, but as I was the only one driving the car they weren't an awful lot of use to me. In fact, every now and then they would move slightly of their own accord on start-up, so I'd actually then have to readjust them
I have to be honest, I'm absolutely delighted to be back to simpler cars now
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 26th September 18:52
Did people say this when power steering came about? Probably.
We may have reached a point where many aids are just silly, although I can imagine insurance companies like the idea of cars which stop themselves at low speeds.
For me the sweet spot of carmaking was probably the 1990s. Things like fuel injection, power steering, air con, ABS etc became standard things but the bulk of the modern green wave was yet to hit, which in my view subsequently damaged car reliability.
Give me a Ford Granada over an enormous 2012 thing with zero visibility, doors wider than bicycles, wipers which come on themselves and voice control stuff which doesn't work.
We may have reached a point where many aids are just silly, although I can imagine insurance companies like the idea of cars which stop themselves at low speeds.
For me the sweet spot of carmaking was probably the 1990s. Things like fuel injection, power steering, air con, ABS etc became standard things but the bulk of the modern green wave was yet to hit, which in my view subsequently damaged car reliability.
Give me a Ford Granada over an enormous 2012 thing with zero visibility, doors wider than bicycles, wipers which come on themselves and voice control stuff which doesn't work.
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