RE: Reasons to be cheerful: PH Blog
Discussion
bsvensso said:
Kawasicki said:
-1
why go to the bother of driving at all? Driverless cars are the future, 99.9% of people will just love them.
We who use this forum are most likely Not advocating any such thing, nor did he say that. Sure, Most people will see a huge benefit in self driving cars and I certainly also believe they will come in some form or other, probably sooner then we think. After all, most people simply don't care about driving (or cars) so it's an excellent solution for them.why go to the bother of driving at all? Driverless cars are the future, 99.9% of people will just love them.
But what he says (and based on current and historic evidence) is that there will still be exciting driving (and cars) for the few of us that still care about such things, even in the future, like it always has before (well, except for the 70's perhaps (ducking for cover
)). They will of course work differently from what we oldies are perhaps used to but anyone growing up with them will still take them onboard as their own gold standard, and then in turn moan about the next car generation when that comes around I completely agree on being an optimist about such things and haven't had any reason to be disappointed yet!
Mr Viking said:
I agree, I just wouldn't buy a new car. I lost interest a few years ago because I grew up and realized that new cars weren't exciting me at all. I look forward to relaxing into my dressing gown and thick slippers with my pipe and trusted collie by the fire
Oh come on... How can you honestly say the new 911 GT3 is not an incredibly desirable car... The tech has been put there by people who know more about making a road car handle and go fast than almost anyone on the planet. Personally, I'd love one, paddles 'n all!
TheHeretic said:
Piffle and wiffle! I bet you a quid an F1 car is far more involving than any road going manual car.
Do I get to pick the road (since the thread is about road cars)? I'd find just about any road car more involving than a F1 car limited to about 5mph because of the state of the road anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree, look at all the Hyundai Coupes you see everywhere - they shifted plenty without the fun bit's of the GT86. Some people just want a shiney coupe. Don't get me wrong, I love the GT86 but the enthusiast market is far too small to rely on for a mass produced car. jamespink said:
Oh come on... How can you honestly say the new 911 GT3 is not an incredibly desirable car... The tech has been put there by people who know more about making a road car handle and go fast than almost anyone on the planet. Personally, I'd love one, paddles 'n all!
Depends what you find desirable in a car. A Veyron is an insanely fast but if money was no object i dont think i would buy one as it doesn't appeal to me. I would rather a Carrera GT for the noise alone. For me being the fastest doesn't make it the most desriable and I think this is what alot of people are saying.Kawasicki said:
-1
why go to the bother of driving at all? Driverless cars are the future, 99.9% of people will just love them.
Way to miss the point.why go to the bother of driving at all? Driverless cars are the future, 99.9% of people will just love them.
Driverless cars? Why not? 90% of the population don't care, but what I'm saying is that the cars that are held up today as paragons of driver involvement by people like us who do care would be considered anodyne and detached by people used to driving only 1960s equivalents.
The very fact that Renaultsport Clios are equipped with comfy seats, 6 speaker audio systems, soft-touch materials, numerous safety features, electronic driver aids and a shedload of eco-gubbins to reduce emissions does not stop them being excellent cars in their own right. Sure, they're duller and more detached than an Alfasud Ti or 205 GTI but are quantifiably better, more reliable cars in virtually every respect than their forebears.
Take the same ingredients as used in the Clio but make a pig's ear of the execution *cough*Peugout*cough* and you can see it's easy enough to get it wrong. What's important though is that some manufacturers get it right, and crucially that there is a big enough market to support such cars.
If the PDK GT3 isn't good enough, and sufficient people with big enough wallets tell Porsche this, then they may change their mind about the GT3. I rather suspect Porsche know their market better than you or I though. Still, there's always the RS
If the next Renault RS/Seat FR/Ford ST/Mini Cooper S etc. is adjudged a work of genius and a corresponding sales success despite having a turbo, EPAS, dual-clutch 'box etc., then you can be sure it will be getting the nostalgia glands all pumped up on Pistonheads 25 years hence, PH Hero feature and all.
If Manufacturer X launches a back-to-basics hot hatch that ticks the purist boxes but can't compete on showroom appeal though...it will be consigned to a Spotted!
Meanwhile, I'm sure there are people reading/posting on this thread who consider themselves 'purists' but who have VAG TDIs etc. in their garages...
juansolo said:
To me the fact that the GT86 is selling proves that there still is a market there for people who want something involving to drive. Hopefully it goes on to be a success as otherwise, the future is looking bleak for us luddites.
I have said it before and will again, the fact that everyone heralded the 86 as Toyota/Subaru giving us the "drivers car we all wanted" is completely undermined by the future development and likely release of wacking a super or turbo charger on it and i will guarantee once the numbers are in at the end of its run, more fi'd ones will be sold than the na purist version so many people have preached about being the car a driver wants and they want us to have!anonymous said:
[redacted]
Loving the banter! I'd imagine F1 drivers get their 'involvement' mostly from downforce/grip and the huge Gs they pull under acceleration and braking. Not feasible for a road car, so we try to get our involvement from a myriad of things, an important one being that pesky stick in the middle that manufacturers so hate to put in that 1% of cars aimed at us enthusiasts.
rev-erend said:
The sooner that people start buying into the new 'tech' the better.
Then rubbish cars like the GT3 with it's silly manual box will plummet
in price.
Younger drivers will become like Americans are now - no idea how to drive a
stick shift.
Roll on that day ...
Can't wait to have a GT3 on my driveway
Yes totally agree.Then rubbish cars like the GT3 with it's silly manual box will plummet
in price.
Younger drivers will become like Americans are now - no idea how to drive a
stick shift.
Roll on that day ...
Can't wait to have a GT3 on my driveway
The M3 CSL is just RUBBISH, And not even worth 5k
It has no tech and I have no interest
(Did that work?
I hope so)
rev-erend said:
The sooner that people start buying into the new 'tech' the better.
Then rubbish cars like the GT3 with it's silly manual box will plummet
in price.
Younger drivers will become like Americans are now - no idea how to drive a
stick shift.
Roll on that day ...
Can't wait to have a GT3 on my driveway
Then rubbish cars like the GT3 with it's silly manual box will plummet
in price.
Younger drivers will become like Americans are now - no idea how to drive a
stick shift.
Roll on that day ...
Can't wait to have a GT3 on my driveway
Mmm. Cunning Plan!
And guess why they hate to put that third pedal and gearstick back in? Because the masses don't want it? Erm, my guesstimate would be that where tax brackets based on CO2 output aren't an issue, the actual sales of cars with DSG-like 'boxes represent a single digit percentage of the market. But CO2 is an issue for manufacturers, and every extra gram of it emitted in the wretched NEDC test means a loss of five euro per car produced on average. Roboted manual 'boxes -especially those using dry clutches - have lost the efficiency disadvantage of automatic transmissions compared to manuals and you can program them to suit the test to perfection, making the 'automatic' car more fuel efficient (on paper) than the manual one (Under the Dutch tax regime, a PDK Porsche is a fair bit cheaper than its manual transmission equivalent even though its price before taxes is higher).
So what do you do as a manufacturer? You get on with it and make your engineer spokesmen put up a brave face and utter the words 'it's faster' and 'it's what the market wants'. Everyone loses but the few folks that wanted an autobox to begin with.
So what do you do as a manufacturer? You get on with it and make your engineer spokesmen put up a brave face and utter the words 'it's faster' and 'it's what the market wants'. Everyone loses but the few folks that wanted an autobox to begin with.
"Why we need to take the rose tints off and embrace the future with both flappy paddles!"
I don't get you point really,
I don't want an auto no matter how many clutches it has, just the same as i don't really want my next gen (Insert brand and model) to be larger than my current one, all this spell's is cars in 3-6 years time that people do not want and are not viable to fix when they go wrong, used high mileage DSG's are that popular are they??? the manual box has been around for a while and works just fine thanks.
This is a fad to help claim 'fixed and false' CO figures at certain rpm's, and lets face it generally adding to vehicle weight, like small capacity blown engines it is a result of political pressure not public choice.
I don't get you point really,
I don't want an auto no matter how many clutches it has, just the same as i don't really want my next gen (Insert brand and model) to be larger than my current one, all this spell's is cars in 3-6 years time that people do not want and are not viable to fix when they go wrong, used high mileage DSG's are that popular are they??? the manual box has been around for a while and works just fine thanks.
This is a fad to help claim 'fixed and false' CO figures at certain rpm's, and lets face it generally adding to vehicle weight, like small capacity blown engines it is a result of political pressure not public choice.
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