RE: Megane 265 Cup and Subaru BRZ: Fast vs Fun
Discussion
Richyboy said:
I've done my time with french crap hatches. Take this megane on track to go fast and it will be a barge munching up consumables. The 86 doesn't need to go anywhere near a track to have fun.
Several track days in my Trophy, not particularly hard on brakes and tyres. It couldn't be less barge like if it tried.Nothing crap about the way Renaultsport cars drive. Inspirational things.
Rawwr said:
otolith said:
I find that any increase in straight line performance is a novelty which wears off very quickly.
Quite. Once you've done a 0-186 on a Fireblade, most things seem dull, including repeating it.But IMHO something properly quick is always fun. But the RS is most impressive in the corners not the straights
roystinho said:
Don't know where all this straight line speed is coming from, the megane isn't about that at all, show it a corner and not many cars at this price will keep up. That's where the fun in the 265 is, going round corners down B roads at speeds the seem to defy physics
It's coming from the assertion that the straight line performance advantage of the Megane is an important consideration.roystinho said:
That's where the fun in the 265 is, going round corners down B roads at speeds the seem to defy physics
I think that is the point. It's getting harder to do that these days and increasingly anti-social. I used to do that a LOT. But not really so much now. Hence the attraction of a different kind of sporty car. One that you can rag the nuts off, but has less pace and less outright grip and can wriggle around a bit.
May I just add - this is one of the better PH articles in recent weeks. It has kicked off an interesting thread as well, without people going mental even though they have different views.. Which is nice !
I drive a Porsche 968 Sport as my daily and have recently test driven the GT86 and Clio 200. Neither could hold a light up to my 968... I'm afraid I still found the GT86 to be too electronic, the chassis to be too good and far too grippy, the throttle response to be poor and the lack of torque and power just too frustrating. The Clio 200 was better in almost every respect but still not torquey enough to be really intertesting.
Good 1980's hot hatches and sports cars have that element of being alive (FWD and RWD)- my mk2 Honda CRX 1.6i-16 was similar to the 968 in that respect in spite only having 130bhp, you steer them on the throttle and every input could instantly be felt feeding back. The GT86/BRZ is a noble project but just miss that tactile aspect unless driving on the limiter like a madman.
Good 1980's hot hatches and sports cars have that element of being alive (FWD and RWD)- my mk2 Honda CRX 1.6i-16 was similar to the 968 in that respect in spite only having 130bhp, you steer them on the throttle and every input could instantly be felt feeding back. The GT86/BRZ is a noble project but just miss that tactile aspect unless driving on the limiter like a madman.
toppstuff said:
roystinho said:
That's where the fun in the 265 is, going round corners down B roads at speeds the seem to defy physics
I think that is the point. It's getting harder to do that these days and increasingly anti-social. I used to do that a LOT. But not really so much now. Hence the attraction of a different kind of sporty car. One that you can rag the nuts off, but has less pace and less outright grip and can wriggle around a bit.
May I just add - this is one of the better PH articles in recent weeks. It has kicked off an interesting thread as well, without people going mental even though they have different views.. Which is nice !
As to where, suppose it depends where you live. I can be in the Yorkshire Dales in 20 mins and on an early start most if it is empty. Even at 'busy' times there are always roads with no one on if you know where to go
Edited by roystinho on Friday 22 March 17:28
In standard form the gt86/brz every time so much fun at low speed , but I'm biased I've had mine for 6months it's great .With a bit of research they can be made to grip with a tyre change etc but that takes a little fun out of the slides but in the twisties it can be amazing.
The development of aftermarket parts from turbos/superchargers to interior additions is increasing at a staggering pace. The future looks good I won't be selling for a long time and I suspect a lot of owners will keep them for a considerable length of time, its just one of those cars.
The development of aftermarket parts from turbos/superchargers to interior additions is increasing at a staggering pace. The future looks good I won't be selling for a long time and I suspect a lot of owners will keep them for a considerable length of time, its just one of those cars.
toppstuff said:
MarkRSi said:
toppstuff said:
Probably too fast on modern roads unfortunately.
I think this is the problem with hot hatches. You have to drive them hard to really appreciate the difference between the hot version and the regular shopping version. And that ain't easy these days.
Could you not argue that driving at the limits of grip of the 86 on the public road to appreciate the RWD balance is equally foolish? I think this is the problem with hot hatches. You have to drive them hard to really appreciate the difference between the hot version and the regular shopping version. And that ain't easy these days.
I guess it is more fun and probably more possible, to feel a car like a GT 86 give a little low speed wiggle on the way out of a bend, than to go around the bend at 900 leptons and attract the BiB.
And it is not necessary to get the back out with a "dab of oppo" either. In a nice RWD car just feeling the cars weight shift and move is enough to be interesting. More interesting than just endless amount of grip anyway.
And yes you don't need to be going at an insane speed/applying oppo to do so.Obviously the Megane being FWD cannot do that, however (in the dry at least) it can put down it's power very well and instead you can feel the front end being pulled out the corner - obviously it's not for everyone and some might prefer the pushed/RWD feeling. And I'm not sure it could still do that trick when it's wet...
In all honesty is the Megane really over tyred? 215/45 vs 235/40 isn't a lot especially since the french car has a bit more weight.
Both cars are very agile (if in different ways) but what it came down to really was the character of the engine - don't get me wrong the 86 is quick enough to get a rogering from plod if you want (however extra punch will make for safer overtaking which cannot be overlooked), although I found the gearing a bit too long (3rd goes all the way to 90!). I just preferred the explosive, unashamed turbo power of Megane and the noise that came with it, and while I also enjoy a revvy engine, I wasn't convinced by the noise the 86 made.
My 'ideal' GT86 would have a K20 engine (ignoring the fact it would raise the COG) and short ratio gearbox, then it would be perfect
toppstuff said:
roystinho said:
That's where the fun in the 265 is, going round corners down B roads at speeds the seem to defy physics
I think that is the point. It's getting harder to do that these days and increasingly anti-social. I used to do that a LOT. But not really so much now. Hence the attraction of a different kind of sporty car. One that you can rag the nuts off, but has less pace and less outright grip and can wriggle around a bit.
On a track where physics-defying pace is actively encouraged I'd find this a much harder choice and would actually probably go for the Megane.
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