Is fuel economy blown way out of proportion?
Discussion
I gave up worrying about mpg a long time ago. I do 30k a year in my daily driver, for me comfort and performance outweigh economy so i drive an XJR . Its paid for by my car allowance plus 30p per mile expenses. Factoring in depreciation repairs etc i expect to make a small profit each year after covering my personal fuel costs.
Yes i could make more on the car if it had better economy but it pays for itself and i enjoy driving it so why not. I also have a tvr for more extreme fun and will shortly be replacing my wifes golf v4 with an s2000. Fuel is the last thing i wirry about, insurance and depreciation are the big costs.
Yes i could make more on the car if it had better economy but it pays for itself and i enjoy driving it so why not. I also have a tvr for more extreme fun and will shortly be replacing my wifes golf v4 with an s2000. Fuel is the last thing i wirry about, insurance and depreciation are the big costs.
Is it just me that doesn't really care?
I earn an average amount of money but I never really take any notice of how much fuel my cars use (if they suddenly start using loads I'd notice, day to day I mean).
I commute around 200 miles a week and generally put £20 in on a Monday, and £20 in on Friday.
This includes little drives for the sake of it, trips in to town at the weekend and the picking up/ dropping off my son and I'll drive 'spiritedly' when the time/ place is right.
I have no idea what MPG my car does. It's kind of not the idea
I earn an average amount of money but I never really take any notice of how much fuel my cars use (if they suddenly start using loads I'd notice, day to day I mean).
I commute around 200 miles a week and generally put £20 in on a Monday, and £20 in on Friday.
This includes little drives for the sake of it, trips in to town at the weekend and the picking up/ dropping off my son and I'll drive 'spiritedly' when the time/ place is right.
I have no idea what MPG my car does. It's kind of not the idea
J4CKO said:
What about all those hypermiling a diesel, saving a fortune on fuel, that then get hit by needing a new dmf, dpf, injectors etc that wipes out thre years of saving ?
I think a Boggo jap 1.8 petrol is the best combination for cost, not too bad on fuel, they don't break and if they do a whole new engine from a breakers is cheaper than a set of fuel injectors for a diesel, not the last word in fun but that's my theory.
I just try to plan journeys to do more than one task, I cycle to work or work from home.
I suspect you are 100% correct.I think a Boggo jap 1.8 petrol is the best combination for cost, not too bad on fuel, they don't break and if they do a whole new engine from a breakers is cheaper than a set of fuel injectors for a diesel, not the last word in fun but that's my theory.
I just try to plan journeys to do more than one task, I cycle to work or work from home.
405dogvan said:
busta said:
Worrying about fuel economy is for poor people 
Not quite - if you get into your supercar intent on heading for the South of France and discover that you have to find a petrol station every 90mins or less - you WILL have a f
king miserable drive.You can't enjoy it, because any trips off the beaten track will come with the risk of running out of fuel so you'll stay on the motorways and you'll be scanning for fuel stations like a man stranded in a desert looks at mirages...
Not being an elitist prick about it - MPG is about using you car as a tool and not a toy - anyone actually covering any distance WILL care about economy/tank size in their car, just as anyone with kids/dogs cares about back seat space/boot space/whether the plastics hold doghairs ;0
TO think otherwise is to think that there's one perfect car and we know there isn't - it's actualy a good thing there isn't.
A 458 holds just under 19 gallons of fuel. At 10mpg, that's 4 fill ups between my Norfolk home and Marseilles. 4 stops in an 11 hour drive in one of the greatest cars ever? That's misery is it?
Who wants to drive non stop for so many hours anyway? I'd certainly want to get out for a coffee, food and stretch my legs every now and then. So it is no big deal if you have to fill up on the way here and there. Also if you are going to do such a long trip for pleasure, it clearly has to be a pleasurable car to drive. Otherwise it is just masochism. I am doing a trip into Europe this year. But there is no way I'm taking my dull turbo Audi. Something far more enjoyable, relaxing and effortless is on the cards, ie poor MPG and lots of cylinders 
I'm going from a 350Z to a Puma. I loved owning the Z but I'm not rich, so I couldn't really afford to give the attention it needed, and I resented paying the Government almost £500 a year road tax.
Whoever said it was important to have a car you can afford to fuel AND maintain is spot on.
The running costs of the Z are not enormous on the grand scheme of things, but they are still pretty high compared to most cars. And I have to say, the Puma is MORE fun to drive, and I can drive it twice as often for the same cost if the mood takes.
I'm only interested in cars now that can blend fun, with cheap running costs. I'd be more interested in an Elise than an Evo IYSWIM.
Whoever said it was important to have a car you can afford to fuel AND maintain is spot on.
The running costs of the Z are not enormous on the grand scheme of things, but they are still pretty high compared to most cars. And I have to say, the Puma is MORE fun to drive, and I can drive it twice as often for the same cost if the mood takes.
I'm only interested in cars now that can blend fun, with cheap running costs. I'd be more interested in an Elise than an Evo IYSWIM.
swerni said:
It depends on the roads you're diving on.
If you're heading down the motorway, other than spanking it from the tollbooths ( which is compulsory). there isn't a great deal of fun to be had by just having more power.
Now if your going off the beaten track, that's a different story.
It's not about the amount of power (although more is always welcome). It is more about the delivery of power. A small engined wheezer with a turbo strap on is not very relaxing. The sound is also dull. Effortless pace from 8 or more cylinders is just sooo much more pleasurable when you give a slight flex of the noisy pedal. Also when you are just cruising larger cars with larger mills just go aout their business in such a refined manner. I am definately going back to a proper large engine and I cannot wait. If you're heading down the motorway, other than spanking it from the tollbooths ( which is compulsory). there isn't a great deal of fun to be had by just having more power.
Now if your going off the beaten track, that's a different story.
My Impreza probably averages sub 20 mpg - but I do less than 7k a year - if it was more I would probably cry.
But for what I paid for it, to get a similar spec A4 / A6 quattro or equivalent to replace it the car itself would cost an extra £3k at least.
To my man-maths that's a over a years' free petrol
But for what I paid for it, to get a similar spec A4 / A6 quattro or equivalent to replace it the car itself would cost an extra £3k at least.
To my man-maths that's a over a years' free petrol
RobM77 said:
Art0ir said:
Willy Nilly said:
Art0ir said:
It's needs serviced once a year at a cost of £90 (£130 every second with plugs).
A 9 year old, 4wd SUV only needs 90 quids worth of maintenance a year? bks. brake pads
tyres
clutch fluid
transmission fluid
PAS fluid (if applicable)
brake fluid
diff fluid
coolant
fuel filter
engine timing belt
Surely that lot can't come into the £90 or £130 services? There must be a more expensive one at some interval?
It can be.
But the reason that I can drive hideously inefficient cars is that I don't do many miles. I have a decent salary, but I was driving the CL today and got through about 12 litres of fuel. I only drove about 10 miles.
There is no way I could use it as a daily driver in the UK, despite the fact that it is entirely depreciation-proof.
But the reason that I can drive hideously inefficient cars is that I don't do many miles. I have a decent salary, but I was driving the CL today and got through about 12 litres of fuel. I only drove about 10 miles.
There is no way I could use it as a daily driver in the UK, despite the fact that it is entirely depreciation-proof.
Art0ir said:
Attitudes from the plebiscites are certainly very skewed.
I bought a 9 year old V8 Jeep ("A Jeep, that must be hard to run. What is she like on diesel? It's petrol? Big thirsty 2 litre? 5 LITRES?!) that has depreciated to a point where it's now worth 8% of what it cost new and will probably be close to the same in a year's time.
It costs me 26 pence a mile in fuel, and do around 10k per annum of personal mileage. £2711 per annum on fuel. It's needs serviced once a year at a cost of £90 (£130 every second with plugs). Tax is £270. So £3080 on average.
A colleague just bought a 2012 Golf Bluemotion for £17000.
If he does 10k per annum and getting his claimed 51mpg it costs him £1272 on fuel. Tax is £30. Servicing £149. He'll lose (let's be generous) £2k in depreciation. So £3451 to run his car this year.
Yet he and the majority of those I work with think that I'm the frivolous one.
of course that's some heroic man-maths there - you could own a car comparable to his in MPG terms but comparable in age/value to yours and you'd be quids-in.I bought a 9 year old V8 Jeep ("A Jeep, that must be hard to run. What is she like on diesel? It's petrol? Big thirsty 2 litre? 5 LITRES?!) that has depreciated to a point where it's now worth 8% of what it cost new and will probably be close to the same in a year's time.
It costs me 26 pence a mile in fuel, and do around 10k per annum of personal mileage. £2711 per annum on fuel. It's needs serviced once a year at a cost of £90 (£130 every second with plugs). Tax is £270. So £3080 on average.
A colleague just bought a 2012 Golf Bluemotion for £17000.
If he does 10k per annum and getting his claimed 51mpg it costs him £1272 on fuel. Tax is £30. Servicing £149. He'll lose (let's be generous) £2k in depreciation. So £3451 to run his car this year.
Yet he and the majority of those I work with think that I'm the frivolous one.
There are also a lot of people who'd far, far rather be in a new Golf than a banger Jeep!
We all make choices - MPG matters to everyone in some shape-or-form even if it's purely as a part of the financial aspect of the car or even how often they need to play the ever harder game of 'find the fuel station'.
Fuel cost is significant for everything except nearly-new high-end models where depreciation makes it much less significant and exotics where repair costs keep it there!
busta said:
How in any way, shape or form could bombing across a continent at illegal speeds in a supercar be considered miserable?
A 458 holds just under 19 gallons of fuel. At 10mpg, that's 4 fill ups between my Norfolk home and Marseilles. 4 stops in an 11 hour drive in one of the greatest cars ever? That's misery is it?
My point is that MPG matters even if it's just how often you have to stop (and as I said below, play the ever-more-annoying game of finding fuel).A 458 holds just under 19 gallons of fuel. At 10mpg, that's 4 fill ups between my Norfolk home and Marseilles. 4 stops in an 11 hour drive in one of the greatest cars ever? That's misery is it?
I often wonder how much money the MPG of something like a 7 series or an S Class costs it's owners as it's value simply melts-away because no-one can afford to run one. Maybe lesser cars with big engines are ever worse - something like a V6-engined Mondeo you almost have to pay people to take away these days - it's all a factor, even if you are rich enough not to notice it.
Bear in mind that until a couple-of-years ago, MPG would never have been discussed on a forum like this at all - it would have been irrelevant. We've simply reached the point there fuel prices have risen enough that people have to look at that AND I suspect we all know they'll continue to do so indefinately so it's a factor.
Opportunity cost, I guess. Most people who love cars drive what they want to drive. Those who see it as merely a conveyance can't really understand why you might want to pay £40 more to go the same distance. They're also the kind of people who've probably never even heard the noise their engine makes above 2.5k rpm!
I think some of it is the cash in hand issue.
You don't dip into your pocket on a weekly basis for the depreciation. It's there, but you don't see it.
I have been driving the (4wd) van for a few weeks while the mr2 is getting painted, and it costs an extra $20 / week (AU) in fuel.
Will it break the bank? No.
Do I notice it every b**dy week? Yes.
You don't dip into your pocket on a weekly basis for the depreciation. It's there, but you don't see it.
I have been driving the (4wd) van for a few weeks while the mr2 is getting painted, and it costs an extra $20 / week (AU) in fuel.
Will it break the bank? No.
Do I notice it every b**dy week? Yes.
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