RE: Turn your Seven into a coupe
Discussion
dinkel said:
Donkervoort added creature comfort, size, grip and reliable engines to the 7-product. It looks like a 7 but it so much isn't.
About the hardtop: Shelby added a hardtop for aerodynamic reasons - Is that a reason to agree todays Fake Snakes to have one?
I'm a bit puzzled. There's so much choice in cars: different strokes for different folks. To ask 4K for a HT is a bit harsh. But then: it will turn your '7' into an all weather weapon.
The concept reminds me of Reverie's 340r roof. That was around £4k too. About the hardtop: Shelby added a hardtop for aerodynamic reasons - Is that a reason to agree todays Fake Snakes to have one?
I'm a bit puzzled. There's so much choice in cars: different strokes for different folks. To ask 4K for a HT is a bit harsh. But then: it will turn your '7' into an all weather weapon.
Riff Raff said:
pthelazyjourno said:
It's not necessarily anything to do with exposure or being cold - it's an ideal solution if you want a Caterham but don't have a garage, or are actually mad enough to comsider living with one as your only car.
You don't like the idea - fine, but that doesn't make it a bad idea or mean you have to belittle people who do.
For me a hard top option would actually make the 7 a viable alternative to my Elise. With the soft top, it isn't.
You haven't actually owned a 7 have you?You don't like the idea - fine, but that doesn't make it a bad idea or mean you have to belittle people who do.
For me a hard top option would actually make the 7 a viable alternative to my Elise. With the soft top, it isn't.
LordPetroleum said:
LOL, owned!
In what way...?For your benefit I'll repeat:
pthelazyjourno said:
No, without a proper roof security is an issue for me. As is the requirement to turn up at meetings without looking like a drowned rat, or like I've been wearing a helmet.
For my useage (one country roads trip down south per week, once or twice around the local area) I would be more than happy to live with a Caterham for my only car if a proper roof was an option.
I assume by your comment that you wouldn't - that's your prerogative - but don't presume others won't because of that. Just because I haven't owned one doesn't make me completely blind to its limitations, I know exactly what it would entail.
Yes, it's bloody awful as a daily driver, but that's not exactly what I need in a car (I work from home 4 out of 5 days). For reference, the vast majority of people also find the considerably more practical S1 Elise horrific as an only car, but that hasn't stopped me putting 40,000 miles in a couple of years on one of those either.
And just to make it 100 per cent transparent, the reason I haven't owned a 7 is **because** I need a car with proper doors/roof - as much for when I'm not using it as for when I am. This could (not saying will be) a viable option. For my useage (one country roads trip down south per week, once or twice around the local area) I would be more than happy to live with a Caterham for my only car if a proper roof was an option.
I assume by your comment that you wouldn't - that's your prerogative - but don't presume others won't because of that. Just because I haven't owned one doesn't make me completely blind to its limitations, I know exactly what it would entail.
Yes, it's bloody awful as a daily driver, but that's not exactly what I need in a car (I work from home 4 out of 5 days). For reference, the vast majority of people also find the considerably more practical S1 Elise horrific as an only car, but that hasn't stopped me putting 40,000 miles in a couple of years on one of those either.
Comprende?
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Saturday 1st June 22:35
k-ink said:
RacerMike said:
There's a clever 75kg aluminium chassis, intuituve technology, twin-rotor bike-derived brakes, low weight and a decent amount of power.
The looks don't really do the rest of it justice though...
Lots of comments here, mostly negative, hardly a surprise.
I drove my Westfield as a daily through wind, rain, snow and ice for a year and a half. At no stage-not even once- did I think it needed a hardtop. It needed a towel shoved in the gap between the leading edge of the door and the body- this stopped water ingress very well. It also needed-and had- plenty of scope for hot air to escape. No air vents and a hardtop would turn a 7 into an oven in about 3 miles.
I drove my Westfield as a daily through wind, rain, snow and ice for a year and a half. At no stage-not even once- did I think it needed a hardtop. It needed a towel shoved in the gap between the leading edge of the door and the body- this stopped water ingress very well. It also needed-and had- plenty of scope for hot air to escape. No air vents and a hardtop would turn a 7 into an oven in about 3 miles.
k-ink said:
pthelazyjourno said:
The concept reminds me of Reverie's 340r roof. That was around £4k too.
Great looking conversion!However, I really want to see a photo or video of someone actually getting into that car and remaining icy cool looking while doing so..
toppstuff said:
Wow. That looks cool.
However, I really want to see a photo or video of someone actually getting into that car and remaining icy cool looking while doing so..
It's bad enough trying to get in one looking icy cool **without** the roof on!! However, I really want to see a photo or video of someone actually getting into that car and remaining icy cool looking while doing so..
Then again they're a good bit smaller than the Elise, which surprised me - the point you need to step over is lower than you'd think.
Still, I think there's a degree of looking a tit to any of these types of cars! It's part of the charm of owning one. Since the spring on my S1's door broke, I've taken to holding the door open with my head when getting out on a camber - suave and sophisticated!!
pthelazyjourno said:
LordPetroleum said:
LOL, owned!
In what way...?For your benefit I'll repeat:
pthelazyjourno said:
No, without a proper roof security is an issue for me. As is the requirement to turn up at meetings without looking like a drowned rat, or like I've been wearing a helmet.
For my useage (one country roads trip down south per week, once or twice around the local area) I would be more than happy to live with a Caterham for my only car if a proper roof was an option.
I assume by your comment that you wouldn't - that's your prerogative - but don't presume others won't because of that. Just because I haven't owned one doesn't make me completely blind to its limitations, I know exactly what it would entail.
Yes, it's bloody awful as a daily driver, but that's not exactly what I need in a car (I work from home 4 out of 5 days). For reference, the vast majority of people also find the considerably more practical S1 Elise horrific as an only car, but that hasn't stopped me putting 40,000 miles in a couple of years on one of those either.
And just to make it 100 per cent transparent, the reason I haven't owned a 7 is **because** I need a car with proper doors/roof - as much for when I'm not using it as for when I am. This could (not saying will be) a viable option. For my useage (one country roads trip down south per week, once or twice around the local area) I would be more than happy to live with a Caterham for my only car if a proper roof was an option.
I assume by your comment that you wouldn't - that's your prerogative - but don't presume others won't because of that. Just because I haven't owned one doesn't make me completely blind to its limitations, I know exactly what it would entail.
Yes, it's bloody awful as a daily driver, but that's not exactly what I need in a car (I work from home 4 out of 5 days). For reference, the vast majority of people also find the considerably more practical S1 Elise horrific as an only car, but that hasn't stopped me putting 40,000 miles in a couple of years on one of those either.
Comprende?
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Saturday 1st June 22:35
I think you'll find the majority of people who own caterhams/westfields, or even Elise's for that matter, dont have them as a daily driver or their only car. These types of cars are predominantly designed as minimal use fun/weekend usage cars. With that in mind the majority of owners and interested parties (as is bourne out by the general reaction and resposne on this thread) would appear to consider the idea of afer market fixed hard top for the Caterham as folly.
If you want a pratical drop top, get a boxter.
LordPetroleum said:
Chill Winston!
I think you'll find the majority of people who own caterhams/westfields, or even Elise's for that matter, dont have them as a daily driver or their only car. These types of cars are predominantly designed as minimal use fun/weekend usage cars. With that in mind the majority of owners and interested parties (as is bourne out by the general reaction and resposne on this thread) would appear to consider the idea of afer market fixed hard top for the Caterham as folly.
Find me a means to trim 900kg from the gross weight of a Boxster, and offer to sell it to me for £15k, and I'll buy a Boxster! I think you'll find the majority of people who own caterhams/westfields, or even Elise's for that matter, dont have them as a daily driver or their only car. These types of cars are predominantly designed as minimal use fun/weekend usage cars. With that in mind the majority of owners and interested parties (as is bourne out by the general reaction and resposne on this thread) would appear to consider the idea of afer market fixed hard top for the Caterham as folly.
The majority of people can do what they want with their impractical sportscars - why should it affect what I choose to buy and drive?
As you say - most people with Elises have them as second or third cars (something I'm fully aware of as tens of my friends run and race Elises, Exiges and Caterhams); the fact I've been using mine as my only transport for four years and forty thousand miles should suggest that I'm not most people!
LordPetroleum said:
If you want a pratical drop top, get a boxter.
I don't recall saying I wanted practicality (air conditioning? Sat-nav? Cruise control? Remote central locking? What exactly is practicality??) - I just need an occasional roof, however unpleasant it makes the car itself. And lo and behold somebody now sells a roof. Irrespective of what current owners think, it means I can now consider looking at Caterhams - everyone's a winner. Christ, it's like pulling teeth.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Sunday 2nd June 20:38
I am an ex-Caterham owner. I've had 2 and a third I never actually finished rebuilding before selling it on. One of them was a very high powered one and I've toured all over Northern Europe with it. In all I've probably covered some 40K miles, mostly on the road but also some 100+ trackdays over the decade I owned them.
I think the hard top idea is brilliant. But I would like to see a bit more "design" entering into the concept. As others have said, the rounded rear looks to me as though it would create lift. Perhaps a roof-mounted whale tail similar to 911s of old would suit it? In black, it would give it a real "Batman" look.
I'd also want to see a lower weight-penalty. I reckon utilising a roll cage on a Caterham as a start for mounting one would work, and using carbon fibre you ought to make it relatively light.
Caterham experimented with a 21 GTO - the roof made it lower drag. I reckon for touring, a roof engineered for low drag on a Se7en would enable to use of a high diff ratio, affording either a better cruising experience (lower revs) or a higher top speed (more my thing).
Ultimately, Caterhams and other Se7ens don't look comfortable aesthetically with a roof because of the flat-slab boot. The Donkey looks incredible because it has a more rounded rear and a real GT/HotRod look to it. However I've used the Caterham-supplied roof quite extensively and as I'm a shortarse I found it quite usable and comfortable, and I've become accustomed to the appearance of the car with the roof up. Therefore I think a carbon fibre roof moulded somewhat in the shape of the soft roof but incorporating better wet weather protection could be a real goer.
So, I like the concept but not quite the shape. Millbrook (Gloucs Caterham dealer) offered a removable hard top similar to this shape some time back. I never felt comfy with the rounded rear on that either.
I think the hard top idea is brilliant. But I would like to see a bit more "design" entering into the concept. As others have said, the rounded rear looks to me as though it would create lift. Perhaps a roof-mounted whale tail similar to 911s of old would suit it? In black, it would give it a real "Batman" look.
I'd also want to see a lower weight-penalty. I reckon utilising a roll cage on a Caterham as a start for mounting one would work, and using carbon fibre you ought to make it relatively light.
Caterham experimented with a 21 GTO - the roof made it lower drag. I reckon for touring, a roof engineered for low drag on a Se7en would enable to use of a high diff ratio, affording either a better cruising experience (lower revs) or a higher top speed (more my thing).
Ultimately, Caterhams and other Se7ens don't look comfortable aesthetically with a roof because of the flat-slab boot. The Donkey looks incredible because it has a more rounded rear and a real GT/HotRod look to it. However I've used the Caterham-supplied roof quite extensively and as I'm a shortarse I found it quite usable and comfortable, and I've become accustomed to the appearance of the car with the roof up. Therefore I think a carbon fibre roof moulded somewhat in the shape of the soft roof but incorporating better wet weather protection could be a real goer.
So, I like the concept but not quite the shape. Millbrook (Gloucs Caterham dealer) offered a removable hard top similar to this shape some time back. I never felt comfy with the rounded rear on that either.
pthelazyjourno, I don't think the roof would add much to the security of the car.
You could still remove the bonnet and any bits inside if you really wanted to, but I guess it would keep the contents of the cabin safe.
The heat and noise would be unbearable though. I've been in an S1 and S2 Elise, and it's like a library compared to the roar of a Seven. I keep earplugs in the car in case I need to do a long journey with the roof on - with a fibreglass roof it would be deafening! And you'd get cooked from the heat too! Not qualities I'd want in a commuter car.
An Elise IS the best lightweight sports car that you can use every day. But it weighs more than a Seven. If you pout a proper roof on a seven with real windows to keep the crooks out, you'd end up adding weight. At which point you'd probably agree that the Elise is a better compromise in that situation anyway.
You could still remove the bonnet and any bits inside if you really wanted to, but I guess it would keep the contents of the cabin safe.
The heat and noise would be unbearable though. I've been in an S1 and S2 Elise, and it's like a library compared to the roar of a Seven. I keep earplugs in the car in case I need to do a long journey with the roof on - with a fibreglass roof it would be deafening! And you'd get cooked from the heat too! Not qualities I'd want in a commuter car.
An Elise IS the best lightweight sports car that you can use every day. But it weighs more than a Seven. If you pout a proper roof on a seven with real windows to keep the crooks out, you'd end up adding weight. At which point you'd probably agree that the Elise is a better compromise in that situation anyway.
framerateuk said:
pthelazyjourno, I don't think the roof would add much to the security of the car.
You could still remove the bonnet and any bits inside if you really wanted to, but I guess it would keep the contents of the cabin safe.
The heat and noise would be unbearable though. I've been in an S1 and S2 Elise, and it's like a library compared to the roar of a Seven. I keep earplugs in the car in case I need to do a long journey with the roof on - with a fibreglass roof it would be deafening! And you'd get cooked from the heat too! Not qualities I'd want in a commuter car.
An Elise IS the best lightweight sports car that you can use every day. But it weighs more than a Seven. If you pout a proper roof on a seven with real windows to keep the crooks out, you'd end up adding weight. At which point you'd probably agree that the Elise is a better compromise in that situation anyway.
Yup, fair comments. You could still remove the bonnet and any bits inside if you really wanted to, but I guess it would keep the contents of the cabin safe.
The heat and noise would be unbearable though. I've been in an S1 and S2 Elise, and it's like a library compared to the roar of a Seven. I keep earplugs in the car in case I need to do a long journey with the roof on - with a fibreglass roof it would be deafening! And you'd get cooked from the heat too! Not qualities I'd want in a commuter car.
An Elise IS the best lightweight sports car that you can use every day. But it weighs more than a Seven. If you pout a proper roof on a seven with real windows to keep the crooks out, you'd end up adding weight. At which point you'd probably agree that the Elise is a better compromise in that situation anyway.
To be fair any journey outside of town and I use foam earplugs with the S1 too - the fact it has proper doors does mean it's a lot quieter than a 7, but it still has zero sound deadening, a bloody loud 4-2-1/backbox and overly loud induction - it's just not worth the risk to your hearing (the amount of people with similar cars and tinnitus/hearing issues is scary).
So nothing would change there.
The heat thing is a valid concern - although again with a modified engine and exhaust manifold 5 inches from my head, it's something I'm accustomed to. Again we're talking degrees of unpleasantness though - obviously the 7 is worse due to the location of the exhaust, but all depends on what you're willing to put up with.
As you say though - a compromise. For me it'd be worth considering if it could be done without the weight exceeding 600kg - below that and there's still a massive weight difference between the two. The closer it gets to 700kg, the more pointless it is.
To be honest, if it's anything like other aftermarket options it'll probably leak like a sieve, and for £4k that's not something I'd be willing to accept. Who knows though, it's certainly something I'll keep my eye on.
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