RE: Webber joins Porsche
Discussion
t1grm said:
I don’t rate Vettel and I certainly never rated Webber. Webber is a midfield driver – always has been. Vettel is a good driver but not a world class driver in the same league as Alonso or Hamilton. The only reason Vettel has looked so dominant in the past 3 years is the superiority of the RB and Webbers mediocre driving making him look good.
When RB bought Jaguar none of the big name drivers wanted to know because Jaguar was a basket case and they had no idea what RB would transform it into. RB had Vettel through their academy so needed a number 2. Webber had previous connections with Jaguar and was in the right place at the right time. Since then he has been riding the Newey/RB wave pretending he is a world class driver able to challenge for the world championship. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I genuinely believe if you put Alonso or Hamilton in an RB they would destroy Vettel and since Vettel largely destroyed Webber over the past 3 years where does that leave his legacy?
Totally agree - Webber has had access to the best car on the grid and couldn't make a go of it - I like his no nonsense style a lot, but he's just not the fastest guy out there. Alonso, Hamilton and Kimi are the pick of the bunch for me - Vettle has certainly improved but he's not a pure bred racer.When RB bought Jaguar none of the big name drivers wanted to know because Jaguar was a basket case and they had no idea what RB would transform it into. RB had Vettel through their academy so needed a number 2. Webber had previous connections with Jaguar and was in the right place at the right time. Since then he has been riding the Newey/RB wave pretending he is a world class driver able to challenge for the world championship. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I genuinely believe if you put Alonso or Hamilton in an RB they would destroy Vettel and since Vettel largely destroyed Webber over the past 3 years where does that leave his legacy?
Sports cars is a good gig for Webber though and I will look forward to seeing how he goes - good luck.
No, No No Noooooooooooooooooooo Mark Webber to LMS. We have a fantastic, brilliant, utterly amazing racing series, and if it's publicised and glamorised we will have poisoned dwarfs like Ecclestone getting their sticky paws all over it and the bureaucrats micro managing the series so the popular drivers are in the right seats. Then there will be a procession, and whilst 5 hours of 3 safety cars at a time was grindingly stupid on an 8 mile course, at least it gave us 19 hours of actual, genuine, hand to hand combat. We don't get that in a whole season - in a selection of highlights even, from F1. And if LMS shows itself as anything more than a boring series of looooong races to those with the concentration span of a gnat, good old Rupert (spit the dog) Murdoch will get his clammy palms on it and subject us all to paying for his station whilst also getting paid by advertisers.......why do people fall for that? So keep it parochial folks, get the flat caps on, plus fours and picnic baskets out, drag the anoraks and clipboards out the loft, get some trainspotting mates involved and we might actually convince everyone it's not really the best form of motorsport in the world..........it's worked so far!
Good luck to Mark, I always thought that Horner pitted him too early, so Alonso followed him in to the pits, leaving Vettel to pick up the drivers title back in 2010. I think his chances of winning a title after that went down, both by his feeling hung out to dry and the fact he was now No2.
Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
talksthetalk said:
Good luck to Mark, I always thought that Horner pitted him too early, so Alonso followed him in to the pits, leaving Vettel to pick up the drivers title back in 2010. I think his chances of winning a title after that went down, both by his feeling hung out to dry and the fact he was now No2.
Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
Come on mate, Kubica is gone.Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
PW said:
andy_roe said:
I wonder if Audi will be under "Team Orders" to hand the win to Porsche in 2014 since VW own both Audi and Porsche? Are VW still planning to come to F1 in 2015?
Porsche have stated before that they want to compete against Audi and beat them fairly to prove they are best, not be handed success by the VAG board, and I'm fairly sure Audi have said the same about fighting Porsche.I think they're both smart enough to know that the sportscar audience is typically well informed enough that such antics would be easily seen through, and won't appreciate being taken for idiots.
It would be stupid to hold either back anyway - they run the risk of coming away with nothing if Audi have to play second fiddle, Porsche drop the ball and the rest of the competition swoop in and clean up.
fanstastic!
Mark has to be the best non Champion for a long time.. Hes been unlucky and made mistakes but his charm has been fantastic for F1. What a nice guy, and so down to earth.
Redbull have treated him like dirt, but winning is winning in F1
Its great he moves to a German team moving forward again and finally leaves that German idiot team mate at Red Bull..
Here come Kimi... I bet Vettle will feel the pressure now..
Mark has to be the best non Champion for a long time.. Hes been unlucky and made mistakes but his charm has been fantastic for F1. What a nice guy, and so down to earth.
Redbull have treated him like dirt, but winning is winning in F1
Its great he moves to a German team moving forward again and finally leaves that German idiot team mate at Red Bull..
Here come Kimi... I bet Vettle will feel the pressure now..
sjn2004 said:
Whats the bet Audi pull out of sportscars in 2015? Are VAG just transferring the funding from Audi to Porsche? Remember Bentley, same thing there.
Indeed little sense spending millions to beat yourself...Toe in the water for Porsche in 2014, with Audi withdrawing in 2015 to leave Porsche to run at Le Mans alone amongst the VAG brands.
What we need is a Jaguar back at Le Mans...
M
Otispunkmeyer said:
Exciting news.
I watched as much of the Le Mans 24 as I could this year, along with catching any of the ALMS, ELMS races where I could. Utterly hooked on it as a form of racing. I think it shows F1 up a little bit, at the 24 they seemed to be bombing around there at 10/10ths for 24 hours, especially in the GTE classes. In F1 we are being treated to a parade where they drive around at 6/10ths to preserve the tyres, or if its not tyres, they've gone so marginal on fuel to save weight that they're lapping at 8/10ths to actually finish.
I thought endurance races would be dull. They are not. Cannot wait to see Porsche bring it to Audi in 2014.
This, so true. I watched as much of the Le Mans 24 as I could this year, along with catching any of the ALMS, ELMS races where I could. Utterly hooked on it as a form of racing. I think it shows F1 up a little bit, at the 24 they seemed to be bombing around there at 10/10ths for 24 hours, especially in the GTE classes. In F1 we are being treated to a parade where they drive around at 6/10ths to preserve the tyres, or if its not tyres, they've gone so marginal on fuel to save weight that they're lapping at 8/10ths to actually finish.
I thought endurance races would be dull. They are not. Cannot wait to see Porsche bring it to Audi in 2014.
sjn2004 said:
Whats the bet Audi pull out of sportscars in 2015? Are VAG just transferring the funding from Audi to Porsche? Remember Bentley, same thing there.
Small problem Audi are developing a new car for 2014 with the board having signed off a 4 year programme covering development during 2013 and racing 2014 to 2016. Audi and Porsche now compete with "customer" cars in various GT3 based series so the VAG brand policy of not competing internally appears to have been dropped. Customer GT3 based cars at the likes of the N24 and Spa24 are barely disguised factory entries.
scenario 1; Vettel needs to win the last race of the season, he is in second place behind webber who is told to move over at a slow corner to let vettel pass, vettel makes his move and unfortunately for him webber 'doesn't see him and turns in removing one of vettels rear wheels oh sweet revenge.
scenario 2;, webber just punches vettel on the nose, says screw you and walks off into the sunset, either way many fi fans would love it.
scenario 2;, webber just punches vettel on the nose, says screw you and walks off into the sunset, either way many fi fans would love it.
talksthetalk said:
Good luck to Mark, I always thought that Horner pitted him too early, so Alonso followed him in to the pits, leaving Vettel to pick up the drivers title back in 2010. I think his chances of winning a title after that went down, both by his feeling hung out to dry and the fact he was now No2.
Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
Mark had a slow puncture at the rear, after clouting the barrier.Vettel has improved a lot since then, so he's not on a par any more in this series.
My money is on Kubica to fill the spot. Needs a fast car, and will play second fiddle for a season to get back in to it.
I notice Horner can't resist twisting the knife a bit in the BBC article.
Horner complained that the notice Webber had given him was "a bit short".
"I had a call from Mark this morning at about nine o'clock, and that was the first I knew about it. I spoke with him and he said he had reached his decision," he said on Thursday.
"He obviously decided to take things into his own hands.
"I think the guys in the factory are a bit more disappointed that they read it on the internet than heard something direct, but that is the way these things are sometimes."
Comes off as a bit classless in my eyes. Couldn't manage Webber properly through his time there, and he's still got half a season but Horner sees the right thing to say as speculating how the whole factory feels on Webber's exit and stir the pot? How about how the felt when Seb ignored team orders to pass Webber and take an undeserved win? Did half of the factory not turn up Monday because "even though my boss says I need to be in work, I'm going to ignore him as I understand it's perfectly acceptable to do my own thing here at Redbull."?
Horner complained that the notice Webber had given him was "a bit short".
"I had a call from Mark this morning at about nine o'clock, and that was the first I knew about it. I spoke with him and he said he had reached his decision," he said on Thursday.
"He obviously decided to take things into his own hands.
"I think the guys in the factory are a bit more disappointed that they read it on the internet than heard something direct, but that is the way these things are sometimes."
Comes off as a bit classless in my eyes. Couldn't manage Webber properly through his time there, and he's still got half a season but Horner sees the right thing to say as speculating how the whole factory feels on Webber's exit and stir the pot? How about how the felt when Seb ignored team orders to pass Webber and take an undeserved win? Did half of the factory not turn up Monday because "even though my boss says I need to be in work, I'm going to ignore him as I understand it's perfectly acceptable to do my own thing here at Redbull."?
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