Audi make too many cars!!

[xRIEx]

Amirhussain said:

Nothing more to be said really, what a lot of people on PH don't recognize is that Audi, BMW, Mercedes are a business, and their number one aim is to make money. They don't give a shiit about petrolheads or that someone from PH thinks the 1 series looks ugly. The more choice you offer, the more money you make. Simple.

Being pedantic here but it's defnitely not as simple as, "more choice, more money you make".

[E38Ross]

The thing with the 5 series GT is purely because of how they look. They're actually one of the niches which really works quite well. It's a very, very well sorted car and extremely competent at what it's for but for the looks...

[MiseryStreak]

BMW aren't too far behind are they?




That doesn't even include their motorbikes or the 746 different variants of Mini that they make.
Edit: OK now it does.

Edited by MiseryStreak on Tuesday 24th September 14:36

[kambites]

E38Ross said:

I would say they are separate, I'm not sure about the RS models but bmw M models share such little in common with the other models they really are another car. Mechanically there is extremely little between them hence on the websites they're listed in another part.

What differs in the M models that isn't also different between different specifications of the "normal" models?

[shakotan]

Mermaid said:

Podie said:

Audis current range is so vast, it reminds me of BL!

BMW following suit

Surely BMW is worse. Pointless GT versions of the 3 and 5-series now. The 4-series? What's that all about? Why not just keep it as a 3-series coupe? Plus a 4-door 6-series?

[Kell]

shakotan said:

Mermaid said:

Podie said:

Audis current range is so vast, it reminds me of BL!

BMW following suit

Surely BMW is worse. Pointless GT versions of the 3 and 5-series now. The 4-series? What's that all about? Why not just keep it as a 3-series coupe? Plus a 4-door 6-series?

Probably as simple as 'because Audi did it'. Having said that, there was no real need to call the A5 Coupe the A5 Coupe when it could have been the A4 Coupe, the A4 Sportback and the A4 Convertible.

[Kell]

AJB said:

Kell said:

I was thinking more like 80s Fords and Vauxhalls. I knew whether or not a MKIII Cavalier was following me or if it was an Astra or Carlton/Senator. Similarly, Fiestas, Escorts, Sierras and Granadas might have all had a Ford badge on, but they looked like they'd been designed by different people.

Mk1 Cavalier and Chevette?
Mk5 Cortina and Mk2 Granada?
Facelift Sierra and Mk3 Granada?

With the exception ofthe last two, they're 70s cars, not 80s.

[Zod]

ajprice said:

Meltham Terrier said:

Talk about trying to squeeze as many models from one base platform.

Mini has to take the honor in build pointless models which nobody buys.

Coupe
Countryman
Hatch
Paceman
Convetable coupe
Convetable

Only models that Mini need to make is the standard hatch and convertible, the rest are a waste of time.

There are better models elsewhere you can buy from BMW.

You forgot the Clubman and the Clubvan, the estate ones with the RX8 style backwards rear door on the drivers side (because its built for LHD ).

Meltham's wrong though; people do buy all of them. BMW is out to make money. It makes cars to sell them and does a good job of both.

I think some of the people saying that the Audi and BMW models don't sell need to look a bit further than their town. If I took a narrow view based on the cars I see around home and the office, I'd say that Audi and BMW sold one in two cars and that other major mainstream manufacturers include Porsche, Bentley and Aston Martin. I'd view Ford as a minor manufacturer.

[MiseryStreak]

BMW sold 127,530 cars in the UK last year, Audi 123,622. Around 6% market share each.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/I...

I don't think that's too shabby for two 'premium' brands...

[E38Ross]

kambites said:

E38Ross said:

I would say they are separate, I'm not sure about the RS models but bmw M models share such little in common with the other models they really are another car. Mechanically there is extremely little between them hence on the websites they're listed in another part.

What differs in the M models that isn't also different between different specifications of the "normal" models?

Body panels, totally bespoke engines, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, certain interior bits, steering bits, brakes and so on.

If you're thinking of trim levels that's totally different.

[ajprice]

Audi RS models and the R8 are built by Quattro GmbH, a separate subsidiary company to Audi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_GmbH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBTJxPvq9M

[ZOLLAR]

ajprice said:

Audi RS models and the R8 are built by Quattro GmbH, a separate subsidiary company to Audi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_GmbH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBTJxPvq9M

Never knew that, very interesting.
Thank you.

[kambites]

E38Ross said:

Body panels, totally bespoke engines, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, certain interior bits, steering bits, brakes and so on.

Surely almost all of those can be specified different on "normal" cars though? Certainly the engine, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, steering and certain interior bits can and some of the minor body panels like bumpers and skirts can, too. That doesn't make an automatic M-Sport 320d a different car from a manual 330i SE.

The M3 is a 3-series. It may be a much improved top of the range 3-series, but it's only a completely different model in marketing speak.

[AJB]

Kell said:

AJB said:

Kell said:

I was thinking more like 80s Fords and Vauxhalls. I knew whether or not a MKIII Cavalier was following me or if it was an Astra or Carlton/Senator. Similarly, Fiestas, Escorts, Sierras and Granadas might have all had a Ford badge on, but they looked like they'd been designed by different people.

Mk1 Cavalier and Chevette?
Mk5 Cortina and Mk2 Granada?
Facelift Sierra and Mk3 Granada?

With the exception ofthe last two, they're 70s cars, not 80s.

Well, Chevette 75-84, Mk1 Cavalier 75-81, Mk5 Cortina 79-82, Mk2 Granada 77-85, so 80s as well as 70s.

But, if you want launched in 80s then add Mk2 Cavalier (81-88) and Carlton (82-86).

Family resemblance from car manufacturers has been around for a long time - it's not a new thing!

[emicen]

Northernchimp said:

Deerfoot said:

Chalk said:

A3 saloon? WTF

It will sell like hot cakes in the US and China, it`ll sell like dead dogs here.

I like these pointless saloons, from the Vauxhall Belmont to the 90s Megane Classic to the Mazda 3 saloon. They are neither spacious nor practical but usually look better than the hatch.

Would love a Merc CLA.

If you've ever seen one in the flesh and still want to buy it I suggest laying off the glue.

[Zod]

kambites said:

E38Ross said:

Body panels, totally bespoke engines, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, certain interior bits, steering bits, brakes and so on.

Surely almost all of those can be specified different on "normal" cars though? Certainly the engine, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, steering and certain interior bits can and some of the minor body panels like bumpers and skirts can, too.

No. Not correct in any respect. You cannot get M engines, drivetrains or wheels for non-M cars and the body bits may look similar to M Sport bits, but they are different and cannot be ordered for non-M cars.

[kambites]

Zod said:

kambites said:

E38Ross said:

Body panels, totally bespoke engines, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, certain interior bits, steering bits, brakes and so on.

Surely almost all of those can be specified different on "normal" cars though? Certainly the engine, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, steering and certain interior bits can and some of the minor body panels like bumpers and skirts can, too.

No. Not correct in any respect. You cannot get M engines, drivetrains or wheels for non-M cars and the body bits may look similar to M Sport bits, but they are different and cannot be ordered for non-M cars.

I never claimed that you could? I said that there is more than one different option for each of those parts on non-M cars but that doesn't make them separate models from each other. I'm fully aware that all fo those parts are unique to the M-cars and that that's what makes them so good; they do not however, make it a fundamentally different model to my mind.

[Zod]

kambites said:

Zod said:

kambites said:

E38Ross said:

Body panels, totally bespoke engines, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, certain interior bits, steering bits, brakes and so on.

[Surely almost all of those can be specified different on "normal" cars though? Certainly the engine, suspension, wheels, drivetrain, steering and certain interior bits can and some of the minor body panels like bumpers and skirts can, too.

No. Not correct in any respect. You cannot get M engines, drivetrains or wheels for non-M cars and the body bits may look similar to M Sport bits, but they are different and cannot be ordered for non-M cars.

I never claimed that you could? I said that there is more than one different option for each of those parts on non-M cars but that doesn't make them separate models from each other. I'm fully aware that all fo those parts are unique to the M-cars and that that's what makes them so good; they do not however, make it a fundamentally different model to my mind.

What does the bold sentence mean then?

The M cars don't look very different, particularly the M5 (that's part of its appeal to many buyers). They feel very different to drive. They don't feel like a car designed from ground up as a sports car, because that's not what they are.

[veevee]

Absolutely baffled why they build so many other cars for non existent niches, but the A2 is still missing from the lineup? Probably the most innovative and practical car they've ever built, surely a new one would sell by the bucketload?

[Monkeylegend]

veevee said:

Absolutely baffled why they build so many other cars for non existent niches, but the A2 is still missing from the lineup? Probably the most innovative and practical car they've ever built, surely a new one would sell by the bucketload?

A niche doesn't exist until somebody creates it, that's what the car manufacturers are good at doing. They will only then continue to exist if there is a demand. No demand no niche. There is no such thing as a non existent niche.

The reality is people are buying Audi's in droves whether PH likes it or not. This suggests there is more to Audi's then people on here realise, or more to the point are prepared to give them credit for.