A stage 1 remapped 335d, all the car you'll ever need??
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
I have to say that I just don't ever see the point of a manual box in a diesel road car.
Depends on the car; the 335d is obviously auto only, but it's a fairly good one that suits the car. But for our camper (did I mention I bought it with cash ;-) ) , I wanted the fine control of manual for slightly off road stuff and boring things like getting onto levelling ramps easily. I reckon manual suited our Defender too;again mostly for the better low speed control.
Can anyone here seriously answwr this?
Do these have a DPF or EGR? Also do these cars lurch their gearbox being driven hard everywhere?
My experience of diesels and I have had a few is they are not very robust when it comes to driving then hard.
The torque converters/gearboxes tend to be f
ked. Therefore resulting in a new gearbox.
Yes I have had a few mercs and they were ruinous.
Do these have a DPF or EGR? Also do these cars lurch their gearbox being driven hard everywhere?
My experience of diesels and I have had a few is they are not very robust when it comes to driving then hard.
The torque converters/gearboxes tend to be f
ked. Therefore resulting in a new gearbox. Yes I have had a few mercs and they were ruinous.
Vladimir said:
DonkeyApple said:
I have to say that I just don't ever see the point of a manual box in a diesel road car.
Depends on the car; the 335d is obviously auto only, but it's a fairly good one that suits the car. But for our camper (did I mention I bought it with cash ;-) ) , I wanted the fine control of manual for slightly off road stuff and boring things like getting onto levelling ramps easily. I reckon manual suited our Defender too;again mostly for the better low speed control.
Aside from my views though, I know plenty of people who aren't that interested in driving but choose a manual gearbox purely because they prefer it.
For both the above reasons, it's a terrible shame that there are some cars that only come with autos, like the 335d for instance. AMG Mercs are the obvious example - none of the throttle response issues of petrol BMWs and most of them have pretty decent handling too, it's just such a shame you can't buy one with a manual box.
RobM77 said:
The main reason I don't like autos is that I love cornering, and for better control you need to get the engine in a responsive rev range, which autos don't do, they just shuffle up to a gear they think is right for cruising at the speed you're doing. In fact, my love of cornering is what's taken me away from petrol over to diesel in the first place, the throttle response on my 320d is light years ahead of the Z4C or 330ci I had before it, and as a result I enjoy cornering more. I do like double clutch boxes with paddle shift, but if we're talking traditional torque converter autos then ai want nothing to do with them - yuck.
Aside from my views though, I know plenty of people who aren't that interested in driving but choose a manual gearbox purely because they prefer it.
For both the above reasons, it's a terrible shame that there are some cars that only come with autos, like the 335d for instance. AMG Mercs are the obvious example - none of the throttle response issues of petrol BMWs and most of them have pretty decent handling too, it's just such a shame you can't buy one with a manual box.
Slightly strange - how on earth can a diesel turbos throttle response be better than two N/A petrol engines?! While I like a good diesel (there aren't many), I have yet to drive any with a good throttle response.Aside from my views though, I know plenty of people who aren't that interested in driving but choose a manual gearbox purely because they prefer it.
For both the above reasons, it's a terrible shame that there are some cars that only come with autos, like the 335d for instance. AMG Mercs are the obvious example - none of the throttle response issues of petrol BMWs and most of them have pretty decent handling too, it's just such a shame you can't buy one with a manual box.
And the cornering thing - I love flinging mine around corners at fun speeds then getting on the power early. All completely do-able with the 335d box - it's good enough that on a very fun road, it feels like you can let it do it's job while you concentrate on steering, accelerating and braking. It has it's foibles - DS at low speed can jerk around, sometimes it won't kick down quite quick enough when overtaking (paddles help slightly) but I've certainly not had any issues on fast, twisty A and B roads. If autos made you drive slower, they wouldn't be so popular with proper performance cars. A good auto is very good. And the newer breed of 8 speed ZFs are another league ahead of the 6 speeder in mine. A manual 335d would be a bit weird - you just don't need to change gear much anyway. Let the torque do the talking (oh dear….!).
Anyway, I'll be moving mine on soon but will still like them.
willmagrath said:
Like the title says, is a lightly tuned 335d all the car you ever need? I've been looking into it and it seems the standard car (286hp) can be easily and almost cheaply remapped up to 350hp and still retain its 42mpg! They can bought for as little as £7k and remapped for 600 odd, anyone think of anything better??
A VXR8 maybe... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Y-dmRGAkE
Vladimir said:
RobM77 said:
The main reason I don't like autos is that I love cornering, and for better control you need to get the engine in a responsive rev range, which autos don't do, they just shuffle up to a gear they think is right for cruising at the speed you're doing. In fact, my love of cornering is what's taken me away from petrol over to diesel in the first place, the throttle response on my 320d is light years ahead of the Z4C or 330ci I had before it, and as a result I enjoy cornering more. I do like double clutch boxes with paddle shift, but if we're talking traditional torque converter autos then ai want nothing to do with them - yuck.
Aside from my views though, I know plenty of people who aren't that interested in driving but choose a manual gearbox purely because they prefer it.
For both the above reasons, it's a terrible shame that there are some cars that only come with autos, like the 335d for instance. AMG Mercs are the obvious example - none of the throttle response issues of petrol BMWs and most of them have pretty decent handling too, it's just such a shame you can't buy one with a manual box.
Slightly strange - how on earth can a diesel turbos throttle response be better than two N/A petrol engines?! While I like a good diesel (there aren't many), I have yet to drive any with a good throttle response.Aside from my views though, I know plenty of people who aren't that interested in driving but choose a manual gearbox purely because they prefer it.
For both the above reasons, it's a terrible shame that there are some cars that only come with autos, like the 335d for instance. AMG Mercs are the obvious example - none of the throttle response issues of petrol BMWs and most of them have pretty decent handling too, it's just such a shame you can't buy one with a manual box.
Z4 Coupé 3.0si: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MsoBlLIrNk
BMW 320d: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFdnbkUMDMU compare with an Elise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GJUGAq1Sg
The Z4C is actually quite a small delay; most petrol BMWs are around double that.
The aspiration of the engine that you mention comes in to play later on in the acceleration process - a turbo engine will take longer to achieve full power because of the turbo unit building up intake pressure; that's a different issue entirely and affects the exit of a corner if you suddenly get a lot more power coming in.
The throttle pedal movement in both videos is an exaggeration of what you do when turning in to a corner; you (should!) come off the brake and then come on to a steady throttle to counteract the mechanical drag of cornering and maintain a steady speed through from turn in to apex. In the Z4 Coupé you get a pause then a jerk which sends you offline before the apex, whereas with the 320d it drives just like the Elise or any other cable throttle car - you're in control throughout that corner.
Vladimir said:
And the cornering thing - I love flinging mine around corners at fun speeds then getting on the power early. All completely do-able with the 335d box - it's good enough that on a very fun road, it feels like you can let it do it's job while you concentrate on steering, accelerating and braking. It has it's foibles - DS at low speed can jerk around, sometimes it won't kick down quite quick enough when overtaking (paddles help slightly) but I've certainly not had any issues on fast, twisty A and B roads. If autos made you drive slower, they wouldn't be so popular with proper performance cars. A good auto is very good. And the newer breed of 8 speed ZFs are another league ahead of the 6 speeder in mine. A manual 335d would be a bit weird - you just don't need to change gear much anyway. Let the torque do the talking (oh dear….!).
Anyway, I'll be moving mine on soon but will still like them.
But how does it know the difference between driving in a straight line and cornering? If we look at the above example, you get control during a corner by having the engine in a responsive zone, whereas on a straight that would be noisy and inefficient. At, for example, 40mph in my 320d I'm in 4th gear on a straight, or even 5th if it's level or downhill, whereas in a 40mph corner I'd be down to 3rd to control the car better. That's what I hate about autos, they don't know the difference between the two. The torque converter also gives a pretty horrible pedal/engine connection that just makes it hard to enjoy the car.Anyway, I'll be moving mine on soon but will still like them.
The best solution is a roboticised manual, like the SMG box, but I hear that was a bit jerky and hard to get used to. The modern double clutch gearbox solves that issue; I tried one on a PHer's M3 and it was brilliant. You get all the control of a manual, but you can pop it into auto mode if you like. No torque converters!
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 18th November 19:11
Here's an example vid - there are many more. I can't see any point at which the car is in the "wrong" gear. Don't forget they are all around 300bhp and 430ish lbs-ft - less gear changes are needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llo8hhjnkn4
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK24EsJesS0
Stick them in sport mode and use the paddles if you want - it's hard to wrong foot it. Yes a bad auto is all over the place (I had one in NZ) but this is a pretty good one.
I've used DSG in a couple of cars including an S4 and really don't like it. Hesitation when you pull away, questionable reliability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llo8hhjnkn4
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK24EsJesS0
Stick them in sport mode and use the paddles if you want - it's hard to wrong foot it. Yes a bad auto is all over the place (I had one in NZ) but this is a pretty good one.
I've used DSG in a couple of cars including an S4 and really don't like it. Hesitation when you pull away, questionable reliability.
Vladimir said:
Here's an example vid - there are many more. I can't see any point at which the car is in the "wrong" gear. Don't forget they are all around 300bhp and 430ish lbs-ft - less gear changes are needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llo8hhjnkn4
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK24EsJesS0
Stick them in sport mode and use the paddles if you want - it's hard to wrong foot it. Yes a bad auto is all over the place (I had one in NZ) but this is a pretty good one.
I've used DSG in a couple of cars including an S4 and really don't like it. Hesitation when you pull away, questionable reliability.
That's cause the driver in the video is coasting round the corners, or at least he was in the section I just watched. It doesn't matter what gear you're in if you're coasting!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llo8hhjnkn4
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK24EsJesS0
Stick them in sport mode and use the paddles if you want - it's hard to wrong foot it. Yes a bad auto is all over the place (I had one in NZ) but this is a pretty good one.
I've used DSG in a couple of cars including an S4 and really don't like it. Hesitation when you pull away, questionable reliability.
I can vouch that the gearbox does stand up to hard driving.
My old one didn't miss a best utterly reliable (330d) solid mpg and could be huddled along at a fair rate of nots.
Sound is a downside but they are a 160-175 mph car 13seconds ish to 100mph
They are one of the most complete cars you can buy and it is hard when you own one to think of what next.
I never remapped mine
They have DPF which are service items c150k miles.
My old one didn't miss a best utterly reliable (330d) solid mpg and could be huddled along at a fair rate of nots.
Sound is a downside but they are a 160-175 mph car 13seconds ish to 100mph
They are one of the most complete cars you can buy and it is hard when you own one to think of what next.
I never remapped mine
They have DPF which are service items c150k miles.
Vladimir said:
DonkeyApple said:
I have to say that I just don't ever see the point of a manual box in a diesel road car.
Depends on the car; the 335d is obviously auto only, but it's a fairly good one that suits the car. But for our camper (did I mention I bought it with cash ;-) ) , I wanted the fine control of manual for slightly off road stuff and boring things like getting onto levelling ramps easily. I reckon manual suited our Defender too;again mostly for the better low speed control.
I think something like a Defender or camper can justify a manual as it gives more control crawling.
For normal road cars I just find the narrower power bands and generally slower throttle response make a manual unrewarding and when you contrast with modern autos and their fast brains and excessive number of gears they are a dream for diesels.
DonkeyApple said:
Vladimir said:
DonkeyApple said:
I have to say that I just don't ever see the point of a manual box in a diesel road car.
Depends on the car; the 335d is obviously auto only, but it's a fairly good one that suits the car. But for our camper (did I mention I bought it with cash ;-) ) , I wanted the fine control of manual for slightly off road stuff and boring things like getting onto levelling ramps easily. I reckon manual suited our Defender too;again mostly for the better low speed control.
I think something like a Defender or camper can justify a manual as it gives more control crawling.
For normal road cars I just find the narrower power bands and generally slower throttle response make a manual unrewarding and when you contrast with modern autos and their fast brains and excessive number of gears they are a dream for diesels.
willmagrath said:
With only paltry mileage on the clock, I see. I bought a 17 year old Volvo with more miles on than the BMW you posted (850 T5R) - but I'd never dare buy that Beemer.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff