RE: Price hike: PH Blog

[Bradgate]

These crazy prices are a classic bubble, driven by speculation. If I owned one of these cars and was sitting on a huge profit, I would be cashing in.

[rb26]

As a young man in his 20's, still at University, I really hope that something similar to the late 80's car market crash happens. For the most part new cars command little interest from me, It would be pretty disheartening to be priced out of the classic car market with no hope to catch up unless I manage to earn some serious money in the future. I can understand the likes of the CGT and cars of a similar ilk commanding big numbers but what about the 'lesser' calibre of cars such as the NSX's, KPGC10'S GTR's, Shelby 350's, 997 gt3's and others like them?

This is all worrisome news.....

[JamesyBoy75]

Does the 360CS price make the NSX Type R a bargain? I seem to remember that the 360CS was the first to beat the NSX-R ring time.... They're worshipped in Japan.

Much rarer too...

[Steve7777]

The two phrases that mark the end of a bubble are "this time it's different" and "there's going to be a soft landing". Sounds like CH is calling the soft landing

[Harry H]

Bradgate said:

These crazy prices are a classic bubble, driven by speculation. If I owned one of these cars and was sitting on a huge profit, I would be cashing in.

And do what with the money ? The people buying these cars have probably already got a substantial property and share portfolio.

They don't want to buy more property as they like to spread the risks.

Shares are doing nothing at the moment.

It's nice to own a bit of automotive history. You can look at in the garage and chat about it down the pub. You're also making a decent return on investment. Yes you may loose but that's no different to any other type of investment.

[Mermaid]

Steve7777 said:

The two phrases that mark the end of a bubble are "this time it's different" and "there's going to be a soft landing". Sounds like CH is calling the soft landing

Interest rates at 5% would normalise the market. Harris has been listening to Draghi & Yellen - rates are staying at virtually zero for longer and the scramble to preserve the value of capital.

[GRBF430F1]

Ffffaster said:

LOL! Right on cue. This is joker again!

You were partially banned for trolling on CS threads and doing nothing but talking up your Gallardo. I own neither car (and I would love either), but you really are predictable. It's a little bit pathetic no?

IMHO yes you are pathethic if you have nothing constructive to add to the debate. If you haven't driven either I don't think you should be able to comment full stop car.
And remember when LP570-4's ARE the next BIG thing you heard it from me first and I look forward to you eating humble pie sir

[birdcage]

Someone I know bought big a house over 30 years ago in a prime area of London for 30k and this was when 25k bought you something decent in Hampstead so it was 'expensive'

Same house would sell tomorrow for 6 million. Might have sold for 6.5 at one point and it might only sell for 5.5 at some in the future.

The fact remains that the capital appreciation has been collosal because everyone wants one and there arent many.

Plus people at level have to be pretty consistently minted to buy it.

Buy the right car it's a house in Mayfair. Buy the wrong one and Its a skip in Burnley.

Nobody is going to need to shift assets in the same way they did at the crash given interest rates and foreign/London money in the foreseeable future so no bubble.

A big correction up and maybe a small one down. That's where we are.

Dealers charging silly money for crap motors are just riding the coat tails of the ones selling prime stuff.

A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place and he's the man buying a Ferrari 400 as a punt

[original guvnor]

Chapppers said:

Are we experiencing the desperate scrabble to buy something interesting before the dawn of the self-driving, electric, insurance black-box fitted, speed limited, white goods cars?

I think this has a lot to do with it. The chance to own a really interesting, normally aspirated car is slowly disappearing as they are replaced with first turbos and then turbo/hybrid. The pace of change from old world to new seems to have really increased in the last 12 months as one after another of the classic enthusiast cars of the past dispenses with it's previous analogue nature and embraces, turbo/DCT/electric steering etc. They are becoming history quickly and so good examples will attract interest which is driving up prices.

[bencollins]

James Rose said:

Ive been monitoring the crazy prices paid recently and slowly watched my dream cars get further and further out of reach. In my opinion two things have turned what was once an enthusiasts market into a speculative one.
EBay and Interest rates.
The classic market didnt crash in 2007-8 like it did in the 90's, the difference is interest rates, where else can people put their money and enjoy the benefits of having some at the same time? the banks are a waste of time and houses are even more! Ebay and online advertisisng has opened the market to everyone. We all used to buy magazines when we wanted a new car. whereas 10 people were once half interested in buying a particular car now there's 100, bidding is cheap and risk free judging by the number of people that then back out of a transaction, all everyone else then sees is the crazy price paid , not the fact it fell through and they then advertise their car accordingly.
just my two penneth !

Good points.
I'll add that classic cars are both easier to repair than moderns and not as st as "old" cars used to be. Even a basic x19 has @100hp and a 5 speed gearbox, i.e. copes with modern traffic. i personally wouldnt go older than the seventies because of price/performance, well maybe an elan+2. That 360CS looks like a bad kit car to my eyes, but each to their own.

[rb26]

JamesyBoy75 said:

Does the 360CS price make the NSX Type R a bargain? I seem to remember that the 360CS was the first to beat the NSX-R ring time.... They're worshipped in Japan.

Much rarer too...

I believe the NA2 Type R is commanding ,in excellent condition, similar money to the CS at £200k. You have to remember though that the NSX-R NA2 was built in very small numbers. However I'm not sure if this is their ceiling and/or how influential a car market crash would be on prices due to the rarity and status the car holds in Japan.

[toppstuff]

GRBF430F1 said:

Ffffaster said:

LOL! Right on cue. This is joker again!

You were partially banned for trolling on CS threads and doing nothing but talking up your Gallardo. I own neither car (and I would love either), but you really are predictable. It's a little bit pathetic no?

IMHO yes you are pathethic if you have nothing constructive to add to the debate. If you haven't driven either I don't think you should be able to comment full stop car.
And remember when LP570-4's ARE the next BIG thing you heard it from me first and I look forward to you eating humble pie sir

In fairness, you are rather over-egging the Gallardo thing.

IMO it is the early Gallardo that will really perform well. Especially manuals. They are remarkable value for money when you consider how much a new Huracan is likely to cost.

I would rather have two early Gallardo in my garage than a single performante.

It is too early for the performante IMO to be discovered as a bargain. . But it is not a GT3 RS 4.0. It isn't going to go mental. At best, I think it will not lose money for the next few years and then begin to pick up in a few years.

But what do I know..

[Lowtimer]

Chapppers said:

Are we experiencing the desperate scrabble to buy something interesting before the dawn of the self-driving, electric, insurance black-box fitted, speed limited, white goods cars?

Yes. I am stocking up, frankly.

[Fezzaman]

GarageQueen said:

Could someone please explain to me what it is with the E30 M3 that pushes prices up? I mean they made bloody 16000 of them!!!

It makes me cross that these enthusiast cars end up in the hands of collectors to be stuck in a garage for life and used as stocks and shares.

One other thing, who is it that actually starts this ridiculous price inflation? One dealer has to wake up in the morning and decide his cars are now worth 50k more than they were yesterday and the rest follow.

Maybe I'm bitter

Have you heard of Hexagon? Take a look at their E46 CS and CSLs

[rubystone]

I totally "get" the investment bit. Portfolio diversification and all that...but for those further down the ladder paying a lot of money for more prosaic machinery - have they funded it on the back of a presumed secure job and as an alternative to paying down the 1% above Base mortgage they're enjoying right now?

If circumstances change (eg they work for Barclays, RBS, HSBC or Deutsche...) and they need to release funds, will they have to sell cheap and will all the others who've been fired from those banks also have to sell their toys?...and who'll be buying them if interest rates have risen or unemployment has risen?...there's always a knock-on from these on other (mainly service) industries...

Interested in the story on the Rolex Precision - had it been worn by sweetbabyjesus or something? Rolex churned out tons of the bloody things...

Anyways, I'm off to find out what my Vetro's worth this week...

[suffolk009]

Ferrari F40s are currently about £550-650k.

Can someone remind me what they where once worth? £1m?

[toppstuff]

rubystone said:

I totally "get" the investment bit. Portfolio diversification and all that...but for those further down the ladder paying a lot of money for more prosaic machinery - have they funded it on the back of a presumed secure job and as an alternative to paying down the 1% above Base mortgage they're enjoying right now?

If circumstances change (eg they work for Barclays, RBS, HSBC or Deutsche...) and they need to release funds, will they have to sell cheap and will all the others who've been fired from those banks also have to sell their toys?...and who'll be buying them if interest rates have risen or unemployment has risen?...there's always a knock-on from these on other (mainly service) industries...

Interested in the story on the Rolex Precision - had it been worn by sweetbabyjesus or something? Rolex churned out tons of the bloody things...

Anyways, I'm off to find out what my Vetro's worth this week...

Rolex steel Daytonas were like currency in London back in the day. Pretty much certain to appreciate as well. Now there seems to be loads of them hanging around and you can haggle them down.

[dapearson]

I'm trying to look at this article at work, just as i've done for years, but i can't. The reason??

Adverts. After the first paragraph i'm presented with a large video advertising a skoda. This makes it look like i'm watching videos at work, which i'm NOT!

Plus, what's going on with all of the "you may also like" pictures on the sides of the page? More often than not they're about celebs and/or semi-naked women.

None of this is work-safe. When i look at pistonheads now i'm seeing 40% content, 60% advertising.

Sad times.

[melvster]

rb26 said:

JamesyBoy75 said:

Does the 360CS price make the NSX Type R a bargain? I seem to remember that the 360CS was the first to beat the NSX-R ring time.... They're worshipped in Japan.

Much rarer too...

I believe the NA2 Type R is commanding ,in excellent condition, similar money to the CS at £200k. You have to remember though that the NSX-R NA2 was built in very small numbers. However I'm not sure if this is their ceiling and/or how influential a car market crash would be on prices due to the rarity and status the car holds in Japan.

The Yen has fallen slightly though in the past 12 months, i frequently browse the Japanese market for NSX's, Vogue Sports were selling a 2006 example for 30m Yen, £240k !!! .......

http://vogue-sports.com/detail.html?sid=1249

.....but prices have slipped a little recently. With only around 140 ever built they are always going to command big money especially in Japan. No doubt in 10 years time most will be £160k +. Amazing car and the first i would buy if i won the lotto.

Cheapest NA2 R available, £113k + Taxes and shipping.

http://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/detail/CU25869063...

[e21Mark]

dapearson said:

I'm trying to look at this article at work, just as i've done for years, but i can't. The reason??

Adverts. After the first paragraph i'm presented with a large video advertising a skoda. This makes it look like i'm watching videos at work, which i'm NOT!

Plus, what's going on with all of the "you may also like" pictures on the sides of the page? More often than not they're about celebs and/or semi-naked women.

None of this is work-safe. When i look at pistonheads now i'm seeing 40% content, 60% advertising.

Sad times.

Block all the ads with your browser. I use Chrome and it's a simple procedure.