RE: Lotus Evora 400

[IMIA]

RobM77 said:

LotusOmega375D said:

IMIA said:

That rehashed Evora is an insult to Colin Chapman IMO. Sorry but he did not do Halfords.

Really, did you not notice the horizontal black slats over the engine cover of an Esprit Turbo or the Slot Mags fitted to the S1 Esprit?

They were staple items at Halfords in the 70s.

You couldn't get the rear tail lights or door handles for the S1 Esprit from Halfords!

S1 was more than the sum of its parts and worked as a genuine alternative to a Ferrari. Yes the tail lights and door handles were from other lesser cars but you should see what switch gear you're really getting nowadays in your R8s, Bentleys, and Lambos. They have very humble origins too.

Lotus has become irrelevant as a brand IMO.

[NXXN]

jamesaevans said:

I completely agree, looks over styled and too much like the new Honda NSX.
I think that it will date very quickly, but will probably sell well in China anyway.

They should have just gone with the engineering changes which sound great and made it look like the Evora GTE, which is a much better design in my opinion:



I do worry with the Porsche Cayman GT4 being announced just a couple of weeks ago how this will impact sales of the Evora 400.
However, I really hope that it sells well and helps Lotus return to profitability so they can continue building great cars.

GTE at the front, GX at the back.

[braddo]

IMIA said:

S1 was more than the sum of its parts and worked as a genuine alternative to a Ferrari. Yes the tail lights and door handles were from other lesser cars but you should see what switch gear you're really getting nowadays in your R8s, Bentleys, and Lambos. They have very humble origins too.

Lotus has become irrelevant as a brand IMO.

So you're annoyed DRB-Hicom didn't sell Lotus to you?

[IMIA]

unpc said:

IMIA said:

I've bought and sold a few large companies and actually contacted Malaysian owners who currently have no intention of selling Lotus. Also I would not need private equity backers. My plan was to take the brand further upmarket. I would not have been selling an Evora type product. And you have not got a clue how much the Macca tub costs. I've also been to Austria and know the owner of carbotech very well indeed.

Ooh! get you.

I'd be wary of presuming that I don't have a clue . Taking the brand upmarket hasn't been tried for at least a couple of years. Worked out well for the last fella.

Yes you're right to be sceptical. No-ones made money in automotive in the UK since the second world war. I hope Mclaren changes that and I think they posted profits last year but already have begging bowl out for more money from investors

Sorry one exception. Charles Morgan did pretty well with Morgan before they kicked him out.

[IMIA]

braddo said:

IMIA said:

S1 was more than the sum of its parts and worked as a genuine alternative to a Ferrari. Yes the tail lights and door handles were from other lesser cars but you should see what switch gear you're really getting nowadays in your R8s, Bentleys, and Lambos. They have very humble origins too.

Lotus has become irrelevant as a brand IMO.

So you're annoyed DRB-Hicom didn't sell Lotus to you?

Nope may have been blessing in disguise

[otolith]

Looks great to me, and addresses the main criticisms aimed at the car. The styling is not particularly elegant or Porsche-conservative, but then the original Evora took that route and it didn't work, because people who like Porsche-conservative will buy a Porsche. It's aggressive and no more fussy than a 458 or 488. Styling is subjective, but I like it. The perceived interior quality is improved and looks nice to me, access is eased, power is up, weight is down, emissions are acceptable. Solid product improvements, not a Bahar pump and dump job. It's an expensive car, but it's cheaper than a 911, R8, GTR. It's quicker than an F-type S and cheaper than an F-Type R.

There are people for whom nothing Lotus does will ever be good enough.

[61GT]

IMIA said:

unpc said:

IMIA said:

Well if he believed in the brand he'd get a private equity backer carry out an MBO and then start from scratch. They need to use carbon tubs from carbotech as Mclaren do and in their shoes I'd basically be selling reskinned Mclarens. Styling has never been McLarens forte and I actually liked some of Bahar's design concepts. That rehashed Evora is an insult to Colin Chapman IMO. Sorry but he did not do Halfords.

Have you put forward your CV as you sound like great asset and this is an excellent plan. The only flaw in it is the fact that the Macca tub costs more than the entire Evora. Still I'm sure private equity backers would be queuing around the block to get in on this.

I've bought and sold a few large companies and actually contacted Malaysian owners who currently have no intention of selling Lotus. Also I would not need private equity backers. My plan was to take the brand further upmarket. I would not have been selling an Evora type product. And you have not got a clue how much the Macca tub costs. I've also been to Austria and know the owner of carbotech very well indeed.

Had me fooled for a minute................, you're Dany Bahar

[IMIA]

As an aside. This Elise pricked my ears up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UZNDEaDlro

Wonderful and I'd buy one.

[LotusOmega375D]

IMIA said:

S1 was more than the sum of its parts and worked as a genuine alternative to a Ferrari.

Not true. The 2 litre 4 pot Lotus with 160bhp was never a genuine alternative to the V8 255bhp 308 GTB. It wasn't trying to be, and nor is the Evora. Different products for different market segments.

[otolith]

There's not much of Frank's car that's still an Elise.

[limpsfield]

otolith said:

There are people for whom nothing Lotus does will ever be good enough.

Hit the nail on the head with this comment.

It is a very difficult part of the market I think - if you are somone with only a passing interest in cars and around £70k to spend I don't think Lotus is going to be one of the first three names that comes to mind. I hope the recent change in management finally puts the company on a more positive footing.

[IMIA]

61GT said:

IMIA said:

unpc said:

IMIA said:

Well if he believed in the brand he'd get a private equity backer carry out an MBO and then start from scratch. They need to use carbon tubs from carbotech as Mclaren do and in their shoes I'd basically be selling reskinned Mclarens. Styling has never been McLarens forte and I actually liked some of Bahar's design concepts. That rehashed Evora is an insult to Colin Chapman IMO. Sorry but he did not do Halfords.

Have you put forward your CV as you sound like great asset and this is an excellent plan. The only flaw in it is the fact that the Macca tub costs more than the entire Evora. Still I'm sure private equity backers would be queuing around the block to get in on this.

I've bought and sold a few large companies and actually contacted Malaysian owners who currently have no intention of selling Lotus. Also I would not need private equity backers. My plan was to take the brand further upmarket. I would not have been selling an Evora type product. And you have not got a clue how much the Macca tub costs. I've also been to Austria and know the owner of carbotech very well indeed.

Had me fooled for a minute................, you're Dany Bahar

Hahaha I liked some of his concepts but WTF who was that rapper design consultant he took on. I need whatever illegal substances they were on when they brought the rapper in lol. It was hair brained idea I had and I would have probably failed

[Gorbyrev]

IMIA said:

As an aside. This Elise pricked my ears up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UZNDEaDlro

Wonderful and I'd buy one.

That would be north of £70K too!! Nice it has a Toyota engine too.

[V8A*ndy]

king arthur said:

V8A*ndy said:

So Lotus have implemented cost savings and put the price up by a considerable margin.

Not something I'd be shouting from the roof tops to potential customers.

Lotus make utterly brilliant cars IMO but now I can't get past the price after reading those comments.

Yes I know it's all more than that but you can see where I'm going with this.

Yes, into administration.

Lotus have improved the car so it commands a higher price, and also cut costs at the same time, in order to help them into profit. What else would you have them do, sell the cars at cost price?

You are missing my point and I agree with what Lotus are doing.

However, telling your average punter they have made the car cheaper but are going to charge more for it does not do well in a marketing campaign. Save that crap to the investors. The average punter doesn't get this.

That's how this article reads. It's a bit like VW that time telling press the reason they have released yet another Golf is because "the old one was too expensive to build" that's alarm bells to a PHer, especially with a company like Lotus that's already struggling.

Yes VW make the Golf as cheaply as possible, doesn't stop people buying them (and they are over priced and of poorer quality than ever before IMO). It's all in the marketing.

Lotus need to make these cars more desirable and emotive. They are completely of the radar in this department.

The Lotus brand is not what it was in the eyes of the general public, IMO.

and for what it's worth I really like this latest release and I can't wait to see/hear it in the flesh.

[andy_s]

^ He quite specifically said that they were looking at every component to find something lighter, cheaper but without sacrificing quality; this is fine by me; the money has been redirected to the other aspects of interior, powerplant, detail etc - can't see the problem.

[otolith]

The publicity about getting costs under control is important in terms of showing that the company is on the right lines to stay in business - a fear that puts some buyers off.

[V8A*ndy]

andy_s said:

^ He quite specifically said that they were looking at every component to find something lighter, cheaper but without sacrificing quality; this is fine by me; the money has been redirected to the other aspects of interior, powerplant, detail etc - can't see the problem.

Fine by me to. I get it, 100's of other won't.

Infact if there was a Targa version on the cards I'd be tempted.

Lotus needs a wider audience though I suppose UK isn't their target market.

[IMIA]

LotusOmega375D said:

IMIA said:

S1 was more than the sum of its parts and worked as a genuine alternative to a Ferrari.

Not true. The 2 litre 4 pot Lotus with 160bhp was never a genuine alternative to the V8 255bhp 308 GTB. It wasn't trying to be, and nor is the Evora. Different products for different market segments.

Later in turbo form I feel it was a genuine alternative and on looks alone the S1 wowed me as a kid. Spy Who Loved Me - went to see it twice as a 7 yr old and loved the Esprit ever since. Driven S4s, GT3 and V8 versions at Hethel and loved the four cylinder version.V8 was awful.

[V8A*ndy]

otolith said:

The publicity about getting costs under control is important in terms of showing that the company is on the right lines to stay in business - a fear that puts some buyers off.

Yes very good point but it's a double edge sword in my book and a shame they feel they have to do it. If that is indeed the case.

Edited by V8A*ndy on Wednesday 18th February 12:47

[61GT]

IMIA said:

61GT said:

IMIA said:

unpc said:

IMIA said:

Well if he believed in the brand he'd get a private equity backer carry out an MBO and then start from scratch. They need to use carbon tubs from carbotech as Mclaren do and in their shoes I'd basically be selling reskinned Mclarens. Styling has never been McLarens forte and I actually liked some of Bahar's design concepts. That rehashed Evora is an insult to Colin Chapman IMO. Sorry but he did not do Halfords.

Have you put forward your CV as you sound like great asset and this is an excellent plan. The only flaw in it is the fact that the Macca tub costs more than the entire Evora. Still I'm sure private equity backers would be queuing around the block to get in on this.

I've bought and sold a few large companies and actually contacted Malaysian owners who currently have no intention of selling Lotus. Also I would not need private equity backers. My plan was to take the brand further upmarket. I would not have been selling an Evora type product. And you have not got a clue how much the Macca tub costs. I've also been to Austria and know the owner of carbotech very well indeed.

Had me fooled for a minute................, you're Dany Bahar

Hahaha I liked some of his concepts but WTF who was that rapper design consultant he took on. I need whatever illegal substances they were on when they brought the rapper in lol. It was hair brained idea I had and I would have probably failed

To be fair not every idea he had was bad. A move upmarket is almost certainly what is required but this can't be achieved overnight. I think that improving quality and reducing costs in the short-term is the right approach and returning an operating profit in the next few years essential. They also need to get back into the American market which they can with this car. I'm sure I read somewhere that the profit on the Exige dwarfs any achieved with the Elise even though all development costs must now be pretty-well covered.

I guess the trick will be to also continue with some sort of bread and butter model albeit profitable and not priced against an MX-5 with which it will not be able to compete, on cost anyway.

Porsche were in serious trouble in the late-80's and early-90s and were it not for the 944/968 and then the Boxster and Cayenne would have been in a dire situation. Even now they are owned by VW