Is it time to take Korean cars seriously?

[CrgT16]

I do understand where you come from and the cars are certainly good. But you are saying he needed to mod it to make it "better"?

For everyday runabout sure fits any bill, have no issues with that. I do think the quality of finish, plastics is still not on par with European counterparts.

Bottom line some people buy them because they like the styling and that is subjective. I still think that if it wasn't for competitive price, in a like for like comparison they would be an inferior product. Ignoring the styling if you compared a Passat with the equivalent Kia, the Passat would be better built and with better materials. People buy Kia because it is a decent average product and it is cheaper, not because it is a better product... At this stage anyway, but they are improving, no doubt.

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

WRONG
18K Buys you these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

I was referring to new, and i thought you were too.

£18995 buys you a KIA Optima '1'. To get the KIA Optima '3' is £25,795.

Of course if you look at used ones you're going to get one cheaper, but then you'd get a decent spec Mondeo or Insignia for very similar money.

ZX10R NIN said:

By the way they all come with the 134bhp engine, what else would you suggest for the money? With less than 100 miles on the clock & 18k Max to spend on this size of car I'd be interested to see what you find.

An awful lot less than £18K will buy you a "mainstream" brand with extremely low miles.

Mondeo 1.6TDCI Zetec with NAV for £14,995

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo Titanium X for £15,699

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Both of those make the KIA look positively overpriced.

How about a Passat TDI Executive with leather and just 37 miles on it for £17,000?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

140BHP, diesel, auto with lots of spec? Passat 2.0 TDI Auto with leather and NAV and just 2965 miles for £16,999?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo 2.0TDCI 163BHP?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

OR, for a fiver less than your KIA, top spec Passat, auto, 2.0 DSG, leather, NAV, styling pack, just 700 miles?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Looking forward to the "Ah but"s

[ZX10R NIN]

CrgT16 said:

I do understand where you come from and the cars are certainly good. But you are saying he needed to mod it to make it "better"?

For everyday runabout sure fits any bill, have no issues with that. I do think the quality of finish, plastics is still not on par with European counterparts.

Bottom line some people buy them because they like the styling and that is subjective. I still think that if it wasn't for competitive price, in a like for like comparison they would be an inferior product. Ignoring the styling if you compared a Passat with the equivalent Kia, the Passat would be better built and with better materials. People buy Kia because it is a decent average product and it is cheaper, not because it is a better product... At this stage anyway, but they are improving, no doubt.

He didn't have to mod it he doesn't leave anything standard, to put it into context his M3 has Coilovers a Full Akropovic System Vertini Alloys Upgraded JBL sound system so in that respect he can't help himself (I'm no better) the interiors are around the same quality VW/Kia the door on the Passat shut with a better thump but once sat in I hate to say the Kia was just as good this was a basic one though (had to be to get in budget) as for the engine it's the 1.6tdi which will only be 105bhp.

I think they are there or there about's it just depends on your budget & need from a car

OP I think you have a point.

[daemon]

Willy Nilly said:

daemon said:

And a plastic fantastic interior

all car interiors are made predominantly of plastic

Different grades / types of plastic.

Are you telling me that interior of that KIA looked like a nice place to be?

[daemon]

CrgT16 said:

Although KIA has improved massively over the last few years it still doesn't cut it for me. Plastic interiors, dubious rear styling, it is just not enough European for me. Mind the likes of Audi are also dull to look but somehow I find the European options more pleasing to own and live with. The interiors generally feel a better place and better finished and for me for the same money I prefer that perceived quality. We also have more engine options on the European counterparts.

I get what they are doing, building a competent, average, reliable car, definitely white good kind of car and that's fine, lots of people just want a steering wheel, 4 wheels and suits their needs. I want a bit more than that, good handling, better engines and a nice quality interior with good materials... Hey I am a badge snob.

+1

KIA = budget brand.

You buy one, and you'll spend your life justifying it to yourself / other people with "ah but its got a long warranty" or "ah but its got a great spec".

[Willy Nilly]

Kinky said:

What are the driving positions like on these cars?

Are they designed/developed for local markets, where typically the customer is smaller than Europeans?

They are made in Croatia aren't they? I cannot believe that they don't have consultants or other such people that they can call on for market specific information. They are shifting a lot of cars in the US now and Americans aren't going to buy them if they can't get their big fat arses in there. They also won't buy them if they don't have the specification that either meets or beats the established players already there.

[ZX10R NIN]

daemon said:

An awful lot less than £18K will buy you a "mainstream" brand with extremely low miles.

Mondeo 1.6TDCI Zetec with NAV for £14,995

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo Titanium X for £15,699

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Both of those make the KIA look positively overpriced.

How about a Passat TDI Executive with leather and just 37 miles on it for £17,000?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

140BHP, diesel, auto with lots of spec? Passat 2.0 TDI Auto with leather and NAV and just 2965 miles for £16,999?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo 2.0TDCI 163BHP?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

OR, for a fiver less than your KIA, top spec Passat, auto, 2.0 DSG, leather, NAV, styling pack, just 700 miles?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Looking forward to the "Ah but"s

I said find me some equivalents for under 18k 64/15 less than 100 miles on the clock.

I was referring to new I did say 18k with under 100 miles on the clock I'm surprised you picked the 1.6 with 105 bhp engine if you take a look at my earlier picks I'd already picked the Passat.

Over to you Sir.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 13:04

[daemon]

GreenArrow said:

Interesting reaction to my OP. Most of the really negative comments are from people who don't own, would never own a Korean car, whilst all those who have taken the plunge are really positive. I don't understand the "these are white goods, average to drive, not best in class" comments either, because in fairness something like an Audi A3 has never delivered dynamically, but people have bought them in their droves due to the cool badge. I should know, I owned a Mk1 Audi A3 and the handling/ride was pretty mediocre quite honestly. As for the old cliché of being bland I disagree. I sat in loads of Kias and then the Skodas/Peugeots/Renaults etc and they are pretty much of a muchness. The Kia C'eed for example is certainly a better looker than the Focus and less "bland" IMO than everyone's favourite the Golf, which just evolves a little with each generation. The Optima in the right spec is a real looker I think.

So for those of us that need sensible family wheels, I think Kia and Hyundai offer a very attractive product.

Fine.

However as someone who bought a nine month old golf a couple of years ago, i'd a choice of pretty much any 5 door in that class. The Golf and Focus are the best in class. The Octavia if you want a bit more space. I didnt need the spec and found the wheelbase of the Focus a bit odd to look at so opted for the Golf. I didnt see any point in buying a KIA or Hyundai as they werent that much cheaper and were dynamically inferior. I gave £12,400 for a 9 month old Golf 1.6TDI S 5 door with metallic paint from a main VW dealer.

[daemon]

Qussz said:

What are you guys suggesting that's comparable, new, around the same price and doesn't have a plastic interior?

I like that red estate thing, looks very Alfa to me, I also like the Ceed Pro GT thing, good price, performance and equipment

Pretty much any other mainstream brand is available for similar money used, and that "saving" by buying Korean is going to be lost down the line anyway with residuals. Or "maybe" at worst you'd have to drop a year in age.

Its always been the case. This isnt new.

[daemon]

Kinky said:

What are the driving positions like on these cars?

Are they designed/developed for local markets, where typically the customer is smaller than Europeans?

What Car? gives the Optima 1 'star' out of 5.

HonestJohn gives it a generous 3 stars.

Its dynamically below average.

[daemon]

blearyeyedboy said:

And that's why it's important to play the long game, which Skoda did very well in the early noughties. No, Skoda still don't have the cachet of other brands but people no longer look at you like you're crazy if you buy one. In some areas (Octavia vRS, Superb estates, Yetis) they have appeal or USP's that other brands don't. Kia will do the same before 2025, mark my words (and charge me an internet pint if they don't).

If they can pop a decent 2 litre turbo in that Pro Ceed and give it an LSD, I think it'd shock many people. It'd also cost more than a Focus ST though, and wouldn't be a commercial success because their brand couldn't sustain that yet- but it will given enough time. I wouldn't say it's a dead cert but I think they'll eventually make a braver performance model in one or two generations' time.

Totally agree.

They're getting there. The mainstream brands should be pooing themselves. Ten years time they will be bang on the money.

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

I mostly agree with you but when you add in price £18000.00 you'd have to compromise on the size of car (An A1) to get an Audi for the money.
Someone who's looking for an Audi A4 isn't going to consider an Optima because the Audi will be into the 25K zone a not to insignificant £7000.00 price difference. But I do understand why you'd choose a secondhand Audi over an Optima preferring the badge.

However, as has always been the case with budget brands, buy a new budget brand or a couple of year old premium brand one for the same money. Simples.

ZX10R NIN said:

But the interior argument falls down it's just as good as the Skoda/VW inside just look at the photos & can you honestly say the Skoda/VW Interiors look better/less pastic fantastic than the Kia's?

Try sitting in each - touch and feel is different, quality is different, sound proofing is different.

Not much, but different.

ZX10R NIN said:

I am a badge snob but if I was looking for family transport & had that kind of money to spend & needing a new car I would consider it my brothers daily is a good example he's averaging 43.2mpg on his commute his is re mapped though, but he does have his E92 M3 for the weekends he says spec wise he can't fault it now.

Everything works the only things he wanted changed were the wheels the remap the Turbo & Clutch are no longer covered by Kia but they are now under the tuners warranty (lowering it is an interesting one in the state Kia will fit Eibach Springs without invalidating the Warranty so he's waiting from an answer from Kia UK on that one) now his worst gripe is he'd like a hard drive so he doesn't have to stream his music all the time. First World Problems! LOL

But why bother?

You dont "have" to drive a budget brand dynamically poor big saloon, when you can get a mainstream brand car dynamically excellent car for very similar money.

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

daemon said:

An awful lot less than £18K will buy you a "mainstream" brand with extremely low miles.

Mondeo 1.6TDCI Zetec with NAV for £14,995

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo Titanium X for £15,699

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Both of those make the KIA look positively overpriced.

How about a Passat TDI Executive with leather and just 37 miles on it for £17,000?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

140BHP, diesel, auto with lots of spec? Passat 2.0 TDI Auto with leather and NAV and just 2965 miles for £16,999?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Top spec Mondeo 2.0TDCI 163BHP?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

OR, for a fiver less than your KIA, top spec Passat, auto, 2.0 DSG, leather, NAV, styling pack, just 700 miles?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Looking forward to the "Ah but"s

I said find me some equivalents for under 18k 64/15 less than 100 miles on the clock.

I was referring to new I did say 18k with under 100 miles on the clock I'm surprised you picked the 1.6 with 105 bhp engine if you take a look at my earlier picks I'd already picked the Passat.

Over to you Sir.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 13:04

No, you didnt. You asked "With less than 100 miles on the clock & 18k Max to spend on this size of car I'd be interested to see what you find." You didnt mention plate and TBH limiting choices to a 2014 car that "has" to have less than 100 miles is plain daft.

So theres the "ah buts" i said would happen.

Back in the real world, all those cars are 2014 just like the KIA example, and the final example is a top spec 2.0TDI Passat DSG with just 700 miles for a fiver less than your KIA.

The first half are considerably cheaper than the KIA, mainstream but lower spec and the latter half are a match on spec and there or there abouts on price.

I would have thought if you were that disinterested in cars that you would be prepared to buy a KIA, then the fact it was registered early / late in the year would be of little consequence.

I know where my money would be....

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 13:19

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 13:20

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 13:24

[CrgT16]

If you don't really care about the interior quality and the perceived quality of the interior any modern car will do. 7 year warranty is irrelevant for me as I don't keep them that long and to be honest is probably more a marketing gimmick than anything else.

I may change speech in a few years time if quality improves but at this stage I don't see the "value". They are cheaper, with more kit but so are the French cars, what you get in "value" you loose in depreciation... And then some.

Again, I say they are decent cars but can't justify buying them at all, unless you actively want to avoid certain brands because you preconceptions you may have agains them. For me, I would buy the better product that also holds its value better, it is better to drive and has nicer interior materials. It is really a no brainer. For the left field choice certainly the Kia, Hyundai, etc are very decent cars. Like I said I must be a badge snob.

[kiseca]

daemon said:

Willy Nilly said:

daemon said:

And a plastic fantastic interior

all car interiors are made predominantly of plastic

Different grades / types of plastic.

Are you telling me that interior of that KIA looked like a nice place to be?

The Kia Forte I sat in was a nice place to be. Comfortable, attractive and everything felt solidly built. It was miles better than to look at and to use than the Ford Focus I had the week before.

[kinghottinger]

I had a Kia Picanto 1.0 as a loaner for a week a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was great. Lusty little engine, decent interior, nice gearbox. Exactly the opposite of my Defender in fact. It even had aircon, stop/start and electric windows, for heaven's sake. If I ever wanted a cheap runaround, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. (My missus insisted on a Fiat 500 though.)

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

I said find me some equivalents for under 18k 64/15 less than 100 miles on the clock.

64 plate passat, 2.0TDI, DSG, 12 miles, £17,000

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

So a same year, same plate passat, auto, 2.0 diesel, same miles, for £1000 less than the KIA auto?

Thank you. I'm here all week.

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 15:17

[CrgT16]

kinghottinger said:

I had a Kia Picanto 1.0 as a loaner for a week a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was great. Lusty little engine, decent interior, nice gearbox. Exactly the opposite of my Defender in fact. It even had aircon, stop/start and electric windows, for heaven's sake. If I ever wanted a cheap runaround, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. (My missus insisted on a Fiat 500 though.)

Well you don't need much to having something more refined than a defender.

Also you are bang on... cheap runaround! That is the selling point and in your example the more expensive 500 is more desirable so even being cheaper, decently built you bought the 500. If the Kia was that fantastic you should have bought it.

[fivepointnine]

Willy Nilly said:

They are made in Croatia aren't they? I cannot believe that they don't have consultants or other such people that they can call on for market specific information. They are shifting a lot of cars in the US now and Americans aren't going to buy them if they can't get their big fat arses in there. They also won't buy them if they don't have the specification that either meets or beats the established players already there.

Speaking as an American living in the UK (a skinny American haha) Americans, in general, are less badge conscience than UK car buyers. You see way less German cars on the road over there. My Hyundai was built in South Korea, but it is only sold in South Korea and North America. I could have bought many other cars instead of my Genesis coupe, including a BMW 3 series, Audi A5, a Camaro SS or Mustang GT, GT86, Infiniti Q50, etc. I chose the Hyundai based on overall performance, fit and finish, toys, general rarity (even in the US) and yes, the warranty played a part. The only other car that came close for me was the Infiniti Q50 coupe. I normally own German cars also (the Mrs. daily is a BMW X3)

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

I was referring to new

All your examples are for 2014 registered cars.

New the basic KIA Optima 1 is £18995.

The KIA Optima 3 is over £25,000.

Thats a lot of money for a budget brand car.

Edited by daemon on Monday 4th May 15:20