RE: Drifting modes are pointless: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
I have to say, I've never much seen the appeal of drifting in general let alone 'modes' you switch on that makes it easier to do in a RWD car.
I think the article hits the nail on the head, part of the appeal of drifting is that it's a bit rebellious, it's not the fast way round a corner it's the lairy, loud and boisterous way. I've seen proper drifting on track and it's very impressive to see someone hold a car in a long slide in a way that makes it look easy when you know it's not. Having a button that enables you to do it easily is not quite the point yet I suppose it does make showing off easier.....roll on the Youtube footage!
For me I'd never use the drift feature in a Focus RS let alone an AMG for fear of smashing the thing up or putting additional wear on the car. Perhaps if it was a car I knew I was handing back, as a press person or PCP person, I'd be inclined but in a car I'd cherish and look after, I'll pass.
I think the article hits the nail on the head, part of the appeal of drifting is that it's a bit rebellious, it's not the fast way round a corner it's the lairy, loud and boisterous way. I've seen proper drifting on track and it's very impressive to see someone hold a car in a long slide in a way that makes it look easy when you know it's not. Having a button that enables you to do it easily is not quite the point yet I suppose it does make showing off easier.....roll on the Youtube footage!
For me I'd never use the drift feature in a Focus RS let alone an AMG for fear of smashing the thing up or putting additional wear on the car. Perhaps if it was a car I knew I was handing back, as a press person or PCP person, I'd be inclined but in a car I'd cherish and look after, I'll pass.
Drift mode are different things on different cars. As far as I understood it's roughly:
- On the Ferrari it's the ESP system that will help you keep a large angle (wider than on most sport modes, but not overstepping a certain treshold not trying to reighn in the drift)
- Merc E63 it will be the ability to switch off everything incl. drive to the fronts
- On the Focus RS, there is no central or rear diff, just two wet clutch packs (which allow a certain amount of slippage or non) that each drive one rear wheel. In drift mode, most power is sent to the outer rear wheel initially to overly help you rotate into a drift (because both fronts are also still receiving drive so it must be overdone), once you have an angle, both rear wheels get a lot of power by keeping both clutches closed which, by gear ratio, allows the rears to spin a bit faster than the fronts.
And now my completely prejudiced opinion on these (haven't tried any as such):
Personally, I presume I would appreciate the Mercs solution best. 98% of the time driving with family or busy traffic, you just have safe traction and rapid progress when desired. When on your own on a great road on that detour on your way how from a client/supplier/whatever visit, you can be a little silly without having to go and swap cars (which you can't) and have some fun - not necesssarily drifting all the way, just more on your own. As before with the previous models with the aids off. Best of both?
The Ferrari one, I think the article applies.
The Focus RS: If I had one, I would probably never use drift mode, because I think it will feel artificial and not be consistent with the feel in the other modes - reviews seem to agree. Article applies but it's a nice implementation of the inherent technological possibilities, but remains a gimmick nevertheless.
- On the Ferrari it's the ESP system that will help you keep a large angle (wider than on most sport modes, but not overstepping a certain treshold not trying to reighn in the drift)
- Merc E63 it will be the ability to switch off everything incl. drive to the fronts
- On the Focus RS, there is no central or rear diff, just two wet clutch packs (which allow a certain amount of slippage or non) that each drive one rear wheel. In drift mode, most power is sent to the outer rear wheel initially to overly help you rotate into a drift (because both fronts are also still receiving drive so it must be overdone), once you have an angle, both rear wheels get a lot of power by keeping both clutches closed which, by gear ratio, allows the rears to spin a bit faster than the fronts.
And now my completely prejudiced opinion on these (haven't tried any as such):
Personally, I presume I would appreciate the Mercs solution best. 98% of the time driving with family or busy traffic, you just have safe traction and rapid progress when desired. When on your own on a great road on that detour on your way how from a client/supplier/whatever visit, you can be a little silly without having to go and swap cars (which you can't) and have some fun - not necesssarily drifting all the way, just more on your own. As before with the previous models with the aids off. Best of both?
The Ferrari one, I think the article applies.
The Focus RS: If I had one, I would probably never use drift mode, because I think it will feel artificial and not be consistent with the feel in the other modes - reviews seem to agree. Article applies but it's a nice implementation of the inherent technological possibilities, but remains a gimmick nevertheless.
Edited by Onehp on Monday 7th November 15:57
nurseholliday said:
Motormatt said:
Isn't drift mode really just 'ESP OFF' re-labelled by the marketing department?
I know that some systems are good enough to enable even the most inept of budding Ken Blocks to produce a half decent slide, I think these features are more about providing a something that appears to add value, even if it will never be used.
I would be interested to know what part vehicle legislation is playing here. I imagine it is becoming increasingly difficult for manufacturers to produce a car that shows any wayward behaviour in its default state. Making the driver choose to enable a mode that allows the car to be drifted straight into the nearest wall at least absolves the manufacturer of any responsibility?
No, there's a track mode which is ESP off. To me, it felt like Drift mode seems to wait for a very specific scenario to be created and then channels a certain amount of drive to the rear wheels and tapers it off as it measures forward speed versus sideways and angle based on, I'm assuming, wheel speed between all 4 wheels. I know that some systems are good enough to enable even the most inept of budding Ken Blocks to produce a half decent slide, I think these features are more about providing a something that appears to add value, even if it will never be used.
I would be interested to know what part vehicle legislation is playing here. I imagine it is becoming increasingly difficult for manufacturers to produce a car that shows any wayward behaviour in its default state. Making the driver choose to enable a mode that allows the car to be drifted straight into the nearest wall at least absolves the manufacturer of any responsibility?
Whilst Drift mode does make it a bit easier to initiate a drift by locking the rear diff clutches earlier, the default 'Normal' or 'Sport' modes are still easy enough to power oversteer in as well. The focus on Drift Mode is entirely marketing led. Think of it as an encouragement for drivers to leave some form of ESP on whilst playing around. Without it, the only option would be ESP off which is considerably more likely to result in an accident...
drifting is not cool.
the presenters of Top Gear saw to that.
Blokes in their mid 50's drifting 100k plus cars around an airfield whilst pulling overexcited childish faces is pretty pathetic.
if you saw anyone trying to drift an Aston Martin in Waitrose car park, your thoughts would be the same as mine!
"w
ker"
the presenters of Top Gear saw to that.
Blokes in their mid 50's drifting 100k plus cars around an airfield whilst pulling overexcited childish faces is pretty pathetic.
if you saw anyone trying to drift an Aston Martin in Waitrose car park, your thoughts would be the same as mine!
"w
ker"Brilliantly put Dan! 
As has been said by others, I've had far more RWD cars than FWD (I actually look for them) and my MKII RS2000 and Capri Injections had drift control - it was called the accelerator!
If I wanted to drift I wouldn't be buying a 4WD car in the first place, and if I wanted a 4WD I wouldn't expect to drift it (unless maybe in snow).
If the driver isn't capable of drifting a car without a factory drift setting, then I'd be much happier if the car didn't drift!
As has been said by others, I've had far more RWD cars than FWD (I actually look for them) and my MKII RS2000 and Capri Injections had drift control - it was called the accelerator!
If I wanted to drift I wouldn't be buying a 4WD car in the first place, and if I wanted a 4WD I wouldn't expect to drift it (unless maybe in snow).
If the driver isn't capable of drifting a car without a factory drift setting, then I'd be much happier if the car didn't drift!
Like everyone says if you want to learn to drift do just that. Imagine turning up to a drifting event In that focus you would get laughed into next week with this naff gimmick.
I totally respect the car but wish it was cheaper or the money had been spent elsewhere making it actually perform better. I think most of us can imagine a cheesy guy we know wanting to fake drift who they trying to fool. Have some respect for yourself hahaha.
I totally respect the car but wish it was cheaper or the money had been spent elsewhere making it actually perform better. I think most of us can imagine a cheesy guy we know wanting to fake drift who they trying to fool. Have some respect for yourself hahaha.
Edited by Relax on Monday 7th November 23:27
Relax said:
Like everyone says if you want to learn to drift do just that. Imagine turning up to a drifting event In that focus you would get laughed into next week with this naff gimmick.
I totally respect the car but wish it was cheaper or the money had been spent elsewhere making it actually perform better. I think most of us can imagine a cheesy guy we know wanting to fake drift who they trying to fool. Have some respect for yourself hahaha.
Wish it was cheaper.... a car that the motoring world has decreed a "performance bargain" as it was under £29k to early orders?I totally respect the car but wish it was cheaper or the money had been spent elsewhere making it actually perform better. I think most of us can imagine a cheesy guy we know wanting to fake drift who they trying to fool. Have some respect for yourself hahaha.
Edited by Relax on Monday 7th November 23:27
The drift mode came about by accident, the Engineers found that in using the GKN twinster system and allowing them to torque vector the rear they found that they could achieve a drift, I guess that's when someone from marketing got involved, but not something that's taken any money away from development
Drifting became tiresome when Tiff Needell stopped driving properly on Fifth Gear (or maybe it was even the original Top Gear) and evaluated every single sodding car purely on how driftable it was. Unfortunately, car manufacturers are in the business of selling cars, not pleasing Pistonhead types, so they will continue to put stuff on cars that the unwashed masses love to buy.
caine100 said:
As this thread is evident "Drift mode" if nothing else serves as a target for people to aim their envy-fuelled bile.
Really? I'd rather rely on my own input in the moment than some software that decides it needs me to leave my PC plugged in and powered on for 10 to 15 minutes to "upgrade" when I want to go to bed!
Dan, You should be writing for the DailyMail.
Everything that goes into a modern car has a marketing angle. I'd agree the drift button is a bit cheesy, but nothing worse than that. And nothing worse than (in fact less bad than) spoilers that don't work, fake exhaust sounds, too big wheels, flat bottomed steering wheels etc.
As for people asking who would be responsible in the event of an accident, can't be serious? The driver would be and would be under even more heat for the fact that the drift mode had been active as it shows they were willfull and deliberate in sliding the car - never going down well with the Feds.
It's a bit pointless, a little bit of fun. I'd rather more manufacturers tried to bring a bit of fun in ways other than (or at least as well as) massive wheels and massive spoilers.
Everything that goes into a modern car has a marketing angle. I'd agree the drift button is a bit cheesy, but nothing worse than that. And nothing worse than (in fact less bad than) spoilers that don't work, fake exhaust sounds, too big wheels, flat bottomed steering wheels etc.
As for people asking who would be responsible in the event of an accident, can't be serious? The driver would be and would be under even more heat for the fact that the drift mode had been active as it shows they were willfull and deliberate in sliding the car - never going down well with the Feds.
It's a bit pointless, a little bit of fun. I'd rather more manufacturers tried to bring a bit of fun in ways other than (or at least as well as) massive wheels and massive spoilers.
I think we are getting hung up on the whole marketing thing and missing the point that these drift modes are there for a bit of fun and entertainment. I am not advocating the use of these on a public road before someone jumps on that. We are at the crossroads where ICE engines are about to be legistlated out of existence and I feel that this is the last hurrah for car engineers who want to be a bit naughty, given the chance to engineer in a drift mode into one of these cars, wouldn't you? I know I would. It's giving the Focus RS plenty of free publicity isn't it? And that brings this full circle.
Where on earth do people get the idea that drifing is pointless? I don't remember thinking drifting was pointless when I watched the video of Stephan Roser drifting a Ruf CTR around the ring with total commitment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3U26ddkVw2Q
Have any of you been to see professional drifters demonstrating their skills on track? It's well worth a look. I am aware that this is not an efficient or fast way to get around a track, but the level of skill and commitment they demonsrate is pretty high...
As for poking the back end of a car out, I like to know what my car does over the edge of grip so it doesn't come as a nasty shock when it happens... Just my 2p worth.
Where on earth do people get the idea that drifing is pointless? I don't remember thinking drifting was pointless when I watched the video of Stephan Roser drifting a Ruf CTR around the ring with total commitment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3U26ddkVw2Q
Have any of you been to see professional drifters demonstrating their skills on track? It's well worth a look. I am aware that this is not an efficient or fast way to get around a track, but the level of skill and commitment they demonsrate is pretty high...
As for poking the back end of a car out, I like to know what my car does over the edge of grip so it doesn't come as a nasty shock when it happens... Just my 2p worth.
Huskyman said:
I think we are getting hung up on the whole marketing thing and missing the point that these drift modes are there for a bit of fun and entertainment. I am not advocating the use of these on a public road before someone jumps on that.
So where will you be getting this "fun and entertainment"? As has been pointed out, you'd get lobbed from any track day in short order for trying it out. Do you own a large enough private tarmac area, without public access so not under RTA, for trying it?So you're really down to organised drift days or privately hiring tracks...
Drift modes are not pointless. The point is a little more fun, even on the road, even legally. Getting some driving force through the rear tyres makes the car understeer less on the exit of a roundabout. Less understeer during the acceleration phase is a fun feeling.
On the point of buying an old rwd car and just enjoying/learning that, I agree 100%, but that is another discussion.
I would take an old banger and many hours of fun driving over an amazing machine that I don't get the opportunity to utilise.
On the point of buying an old rwd car and just enjoying/learning that, I agree 100%, but that is another discussion.
I would take an old banger and many hours of fun driving over an amazing machine that I don't get the opportunity to utilise.
Yes because nobody has ever sped or tested the limits of adhesion on a public road when nobody is about ever, and everyone gets kicked off track days for going a bit sideways every single time even if it was just the odd corner. 
Thats why everyones licence is clean.....oh wait.
Thats why everyones licence is clean.....oh wait.
Edited by Ahbefive on Tuesday 8th November 10:20
Ahbefive said:
Yes because nobody has ever sped or tested the limits of adhesion on a public road when nobody is about ever, and everyone gets kicked off track days for going a bit sideways every single time even if it was just the odd corner.
Because that's what drift mode is for, right?Oh, wait. No.
No not wrong. Maybe a bit pointless making a button that does something that you can do without it. So marketing then, and a finger to the Man from, er, the Man, at Mercedes and Ford anyway. Sad so many PHers have a downer on drifting, aka limit handling, knowing how might save your life on an icy road one night. It's not expensive to learn - Book a Track do Caterham Drift for £250 inc sarnies. Caterhams don't have a drift mode and are probably easiest cars to learn in but still hard work. Putting up with the bossy man was a bit of a challenge. But once learned practice makes perfect. This is how it's done.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQatnFUA3E
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQatnFUA3E
bigfish786 said:
drifting is not cool.
the presenters of Top Gear saw to that.
Blokes in their mid 50's drifting 100k plus cars around an airfield whilst pulling overexcited childish faces is pretty pathetic.
if you saw anyone trying to drift an Aston Martin in Waitrose car park, your thoughts would be the same as mine!
"wker"
showing your ignorance, powersliding is not drifting.the presenters of Top Gear saw to that.
Blokes in their mid 50's drifting 100k plus cars around an airfield whilst pulling overexcited childish faces is pretty pathetic.
if you saw anyone trying to drift an Aston Martin in Waitrose car park, your thoughts would be the same as mine!
"w
ker"I know this and I'm not a big fan of drifting
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