Carjackers strike in Birmingham
Discussion
The thing is, if there are two scrotes then they can decide to walk away from a target who isn't compliant. It's still a huge gamble but they still have a concern over being harmed plus two guys can walk away bad mouthing and can still save face as it's their little secret that they bottled it. But when it's three or four then the mental dynamic is wholly different and it is a gang where each member is much braver and the risk of showing weakness carrying far greater social consequences. There simply is no logical upside to squaring up to a group of four unless you have a background in consistently working out who the weak link is of the group and violently isolating them all while under rapid and aggressive assault.
Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
So many people commenting on Birmingham and it's alleged reputation yet I live here and have done my whole life, and I don't hear about car's being stolen from colleagues on a regular basis. If I'm honest the only time I hear a car being stolen is when it's reported on the news (though I do acknowledge car's can be stolen and not reported).
We have had 1 car stolen off our driveway many years back, it was an old Civic (no alarms, immobiliser) and it was stolen simply by forcing a screwdriver into the ignition. Car was found 1 hour later on the other side of town.
I have owned a few cars which you could say are desirable to thieves but never had an issue in 12 years of driving.
We have had 1 car stolen off our driveway many years back, it was an old Civic (no alarms, immobiliser) and it was stolen simply by forcing a screwdriver into the ignition. Car was found 1 hour later on the other side of town.
I have owned a few cars which you could say are desirable to thieves but never had an issue in 12 years of driving.
stevesingo said:
Matt Harper said:
stevesingo said:
The strategy of throwing the keys is simple. The scum are prepared to use the threat of violence or violence to get what they want. If you don't have the means of giving them what they want, the cannot achieve their aim and the use of violence is not going to help. They are unlikely to force you to find the keys as that would be slower than finding them themselves. This splits resources, from suppressing you and finding the keys. Do they have the time and resources to do both? They are forced to make a decision, what is more important getting the prize or getting caught.
In most cases the scum don't want to kill/injure anyone, they want an easy job.
There is a principal here where if society makes it easy for scum to profit, they will exponentially thrive on the apathy of people who just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, it doesn't matter because I'm insured".
At what point do people say, stop. At what point do people say stop, I will fight for what you are wanting to take from me?
I think this is a pretty naive view. Do you genuinely think that people who are prepared to seriously assault you in order to steal your car - will just shrug their shoulders and shamble away if you throw the keys over the fence? We are dealing with feral savages here, not rational, thinking humans.In most cases the scum don't want to kill/injure anyone, they want an easy job.
There is a principal here where if society makes it easy for scum to profit, they will exponentially thrive on the apathy of people who just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, it doesn't matter because I'm insured".
At what point do people say, stop. At what point do people say stop, I will fight for what you are wanting to take from me?
The problem, as I see it, is that there are no/few consequences to this crime. The victim has no legal means to defend himself or the property and the perpetrators know that.
I live in one of the evil realms where firearm ownership is legal. I don't think I'd be prepared to kill someone who was in the process of stealing my car off of my driveway, but if I was threatened with assault as part of the theft, I'd not hesitate to use lethal force - despite the risk that the thieves may be armed too.
This type of criminal activity in on the increase because it is easy for the scum to take a car from a coward who will hand the keys over and phone the insurance company. Hell, even the Police recommend as such. If I throw the keys and are insistent on still doing me harm, then good luck. I believe that their best course of action is to find some other mug who will hand them the keys.
I'm quite prepared to stand up for my property and indeed the civil way of life which we should be able to take for granted in our country. Those who turn the other cheek are completely lacking in any social responsibility and are almost as bad as the perpetrators of such crimes. The "I'm alright Jack" attitude is fine for an individual but doesn't work too well in a society.
As they say, The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
JapFreak786 said:
So many people commenting on Birmingham and it's alleged reputation yet I live here and have done my whole life, and I don't hear about car's being stolen from colleagues on a regular basis. If I'm honest the only time I hear a car being stolen is when it's reported on the news (though I do acknowledge car's can be stolen and not reported).
We have had 1 car stolen off our driveway many years back, it was an old Civic (no alarms, immobiliser) and it was stolen simply by forcing a screwdriver into the ignition. Car was found 1 hour later on the other side of town.
I have owned a few cars which you could say are desirable to thieves but never had an issue in 12 years of driving.
The laws of probability would mean not everyone is affected or a victim, you could never lock your car doors and never have a car theft or theft from vehicle. Some people dodge the bullet and never realise.We have had 1 car stolen off our driveway many years back, it was an old Civic (no alarms, immobiliser) and it was stolen simply by forcing a screwdriver into the ignition. Car was found 1 hour later on the other side of town.
I have owned a few cars which you could say are desirable to thieves but never had an issue in 12 years of driving.
*Al* said:
Totally agree with you mate.
It seems we are a minority.I wonder where people draw the line in what they will do to protect themselves, family, property or society.
Do we ignore the person who flicks a fag butt out of a car window? The person who dumps their fast food garbage in the fast food outlets car park? All thin end of the wedge stuff which is eroding civilised society. Do we stop someone who is taking from or doing harm to someone else?
As for those who attempt to mock, be sure you tell the teacher when your dinner money is taken off you.
stevesingo said:
It seems we are a minority.
I wonder where people draw the line in what they will do to protect themselves, family, property or society.
Do we ignore the person who flicks a fag butt out of a car window? The person who dumps their fast food garbage in the fast food outlets car park? All thin end of the wedge stuff which is eroding civilised society. Do we stop someone who is taking from or doing harm to someone else?
As for those who attempt to mock, be sure you tell the teacher when your dinner money is taken off you.
And now the false equivalence fallacy rears its head. Bravo, Chuck Norris.I wonder where people draw the line in what they will do to protect themselves, family, property or society.
Do we ignore the person who flicks a fag butt out of a car window? The person who dumps their fast food garbage in the fast food outlets car park? All thin end of the wedge stuff which is eroding civilised society. Do we stop someone who is taking from or doing harm to someone else?
As for those who attempt to mock, be sure you tell the teacher when your dinner money is taken off you.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
AgreedAgreed
It's not that simple, if you look at what COULD happen with pretty much any activity from driving to crossing the road IF the worst case happens then it wasn't worth it.
So yes you could be seriously hurt protecting your car or you could give them the keys - maybe they'll still hurt you, maybe they'll run over someone else's child in your stolen car maybe next time they'll want to take your wife - OK maybe not your wife ;0) - but if you have 3 kids and they want to take one - best to protect two than risk yourself for the one ?
What about the Police's family - they'd better not chase that mugger in case they get stabbed, what about the Army best not deploy them... where do we draw a line ?
My line is very much closer than yours - I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I can't live like that.
DonkeyApple said:
The thing is, if there are two scrotes then they can decide to walk away from a target who isn't compliant. It's still a huge gamble but they still have a concern over being harmed plus two guys can walk away bad mouthing and can still save face as it's their little secret that they bottled it. But when it's three or four then the mental dynamic is wholly different and it is a gang where each member is much braver and the risk of showing weakness carrying far greater social consequences. There simply is no logical upside to squaring up to a group of four unless you have a background in consistently working out who the weak link is of the group and violently isolating them all while under rapid and aggressive assault.
Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
Ahem, Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
should you ever be in the unfortunate position of having to defend yourself against a group assault, the ringleader is the one to go for. Put him down and the rest should run off. Not worth it though unless you're competent in M.A.
On the evidence within this thread, the gang picks out a soft target and intend from the off to use violence to steal a valuable asset that they can fence.
The 'throw your keys and they'll go away' idea - wouldn't most people (scum included), assume that if you've got a reasonably new car then you'll still have at least one spare key? So it could well be that they still think you've got a key to the vehicle somewhere, but now you've pissed them off. Doesn't sound very clever to me.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But isn't the whole point of this about the fact that the victim didn't offer any kind of visible resistance. Despite not putting up a fight, he was pretty seriously assaulted and robbed.The point I was endeavoring to make was that there are no significant consequences, as far as the perpetrators are concerned. The chances of them being caught in the act are slim to none, as are the chances of any of them getting seriously hurt due, if nothing else, to their weight of numbers. If they are caught after the fact, the penalties tend to be somewhat laughable. As long as the odds are stacked so far in favour of the criminals in crimes like this, chances are that they will continue unabated.
I do agree that a car is not worth risking life and limb over - but that dynamic changes somewhat if you are getting the s
t kicked out of you during the theft of the car (or even if that looks like a possibility). It's in those circumstances where it would be advantageous to have some means of protecting yourself other than Queensbury Rules.Perhaps if the perpetrators figured that the risk/benefit ratio had been adjusted so that there was even a possibility that they could get seriously hurt - or worse, they might resort to deploying a different approach (traditional TWOC, rather than strong-arm robbery).
skip_1 said:
Willy Nilly said:
I wonder if these people ever get dealt with Duncan Ferguson style?
I recall a video being posted on here years ago of some thugs trying to car jack an Astra VXR. A big black guy gets out of the passenger seat and knocks them all out.stevesingo said:
*Al* said:
Totally agree with you mate.
It seems we are a minority.I wonder where people draw the line in what they will do to protect themselves, family, property or society.
Do we ignore the person who flicks a fag butt out of a car window? The person who dumps their fast food garbage in the fast food outlets car park? All thin end of the wedge stuff which is eroding civilised society. Do we stop someone who is taking from or doing harm to someone else?
As for those who attempt to mock, be sure you tell the teacher when your dinner money is taken off you.
Least his/her mother can say he died defending his car
Mr Teddy Bear said:
DonkeyApple said:
The thing is, if there are two scrotes then they can decide to walk away from a target who isn't compliant. It's still a huge gamble but they still have a concern over being harmed plus two guys can walk away bad mouthing and can still save face as it's their little secret that they bottled it. But when it's three or four then the mental dynamic is wholly different and it is a gang where each member is much braver and the risk of showing weakness carrying far greater social consequences. There simply is no logical upside to squaring up to a group of four unless you have a background in consistently working out who the weak link is of the group and violently isolating them all while under rapid and aggressive assault.
Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
Ahem, Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
should you ever be in the unfortunate position of having to defend yourself against a group assault, the ringleader is the one to go for. Put him down and the rest should run off. Not worth it though unless you're competent in M.A.
On the evidence within this thread, the gang picks out a soft target and intend from the off to use violence to steal a valuable asset that they can fence.
andymc said:
stevesingo said:
*Al* said:
Totally agree with you mate.
It seems we are a minority.I wonder where people draw the line in what they will do to protect themselves, family, property or society.
Do we ignore the person who flicks a fag butt out of a car window? The person who dumps their fast food garbage in the fast food outlets car park? All thin end of the wedge stuff which is eroding civilised society. Do we stop someone who is taking from or doing harm to someone else?
As for those who attempt to mock, be sure you tell the teacher when your dinner money is taken off you.
Least his/her mother can say he died defending his car
Mr Teddy Bear said:
DonkeyApple said:
The thing is, if there are two scrotes then they can decide to walk away from a target who isn't compliant. It's still a huge gamble but they still have a concern over being harmed plus two guys can walk away bad mouthing and can still save face as it's their little secret that they bottled it. But when it's three or four then the mental dynamic is wholly different and it is a gang where each member is much braver and the risk of showing weakness carrying far greater social consequences. There simply is no logical upside to squaring up to a group of four unless you have a background in consistently working out who the weak link is of the group and violently isolating them all while under rapid and aggressive assault.
Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
Ahem, Ironically, the fact that scrotes are now operating in such large groups that mean each take has to be split multiple ways so everyone earns far less is much more of a sign that they are far more cowardly and less competent than their ilk used to be.
should you ever be in the unfortunate position of having to defend yourself against a group assault, the ringleader is the one to go for. Put him down and the rest should run off. Not worth it though unless you're competent in M.A.
On the evidence within this thread, the gang picks out a soft target and intend from the off to use violence to steal a valuable asset that they can fence.
. I've relied on being 6'2 and 18 st meaning there are easier targets for lazy oiks and generally being reasonably security conscious so nothing on view in the car, no watch, cufflinks, doors locked and a big gap between myself and the car infront and generally avoiding going south of the River. I think the point being made by the key chuckers is not to necessarily fight back individually but if as a society we stood up more for ourselves, collectively if and when necessary these scum bags would not think they could rule our streets as easily as they do.
As has been said if all the good and decent people reacted collectively we can get a better reaction. Fragment us, with fear in these cases, and their pickings become richer. If we all sat and worried about the "screwdriver through the heart" every time someone confronted us and bullied us into giving up what isn't theirs we are on a slippery slope. And whilst we turn a blind eye because it isn't 'us' and walk on and pretend it isn't happening we are sliding down that slope.
I am not powerfully built and I've no idea how I would actually react (flight more likely than fght) but I really hope I could be part of a group that begin to stand up somewhat to these scum. We need to be a society again and not 'I'm alright jack' individuals.
As has been said if all the good and decent people reacted collectively we can get a better reaction. Fragment us, with fear in these cases, and their pickings become richer. If we all sat and worried about the "screwdriver through the heart" every time someone confronted us and bullied us into giving up what isn't theirs we are on a slippery slope. And whilst we turn a blind eye because it isn't 'us' and walk on and pretend it isn't happening we are sliding down that slope.
I am not powerfully built and I've no idea how I would actually react (flight more likely than fght) but I really hope I could be part of a group that begin to stand up somewhat to these scum. We need to be a society again and not 'I'm alright jack' individuals.
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