RE: Mercedes-AMG E63 S vs Audi RS6 Performance

[Ahbefive]

ruhall said:

I'm not sure that's true. You can still be an enthusiast and be irritated by poor grammar. I've noted that many journalists use the term
'bested', as in 'the Audi was bested by the AMG'. Where did that come from? The problem is that it puts you off reading the report, hardly what a journalist should be aiming for.

You do know that 'bested' is a real word?

Edited by Ahbefive on Tuesday 28th November 08:16

[Deep]

W124 said:

Oh come on. Fast expensive cars are great. Just not these ones. Also, Pistonheads is a broad church. Nobody gets to choose some gold standard of cool or interesting cars. It’s just cars in general.

Yes, but I'm not for a moment saying we need to agree on which fast expensive cars we like. However comments that claim that a 4 pot 2litre diesel is comparable to cars like these 90% of the time etc are not spoken by somebody who has a real passion for fast/ expensive/exotic/bonkers cars.

I also suspect these kind of comments come from people who have never owned cars like these. The first turn of the key on a cold morning and the monstrous V8 bark will instantly remind you that you are not sitting in a glorified rep mobile.

[hondansx]

W124 said:

Deep said:

Absolutely bizarre.

People banging on about buying a diesel instead, how there are speed cameras everywhere and grammar mistakes.

This is pistonheads. If you don't like fast expensive cars go elsewhere.

Oh come on. Fast expensive cars are great. Just not these ones. Also, Pistonheads is a broad church. Nobody gets to choose some gold standard of cool or interesting cars. It’s just cars in general.

Enlighten me - what would you know about what makes a worthy car?

[RSbandit]

have a RS6 myself pre facelift one so not the performance version but its plenty fast enough. That cost 75k after discount 3 yrs ago so for these to be over 100k with nice spec is certainly alot now of course you would prob get 10-15% discount on that price. If people don't buy these cars new though then there wont be any in three yrs time to pick up on the cheap! Anyway the new Merc sounds good but it just doesn't look the part, same as the new M5, sort out the wheel arches!

[RSbandit]

I should also add the build quality of the car is superb, the interior still feels like the first day I sat in it..a really nice place to be even allowing for the fact its one of the older interiors in Audis lineup

[W124]

Nothing. That’s my point.

I have actually driven an RS6 though. More than one, on lots of awkward tedious journeys and, in my humble view, it’s not that good. Fast but a bit boring. If I had to drive to Lands end from here, now, I’d rather take my old Lexus jeep than either of those cars. That’s just what I think.

Not being interested in two big fast estates does not equate to having to hand in ones PH card and bugger off. That’s it really.

[andrewparker]

W124 said:

Fast expensive cars are great. Just not these ones.

Why not?

[W124]

andrewparker said:

W124 said:

Fast expensive cars are great. Just not these ones.

Why not?

I’ve not been clear there. People were saying that not liking fast expensive cars equates to being on the wrong website. I was trying to make the point that not liking these cars is just about these specific cars. Not liking the RS6 and AMG thing is not the same as not liking all fast, expensive cars.

Personally, I find them very boring. Big, heavy 4WD estate cars are not really my thing. But that’s just me.

I can completely understand why they are very desirable to some people. Especially if those people can only have one car.

Each to their own, no?

[hondansx]

What does being expensive have anything to do with it? It just sounds like inverse snobbery to me.

If you are a single 20 something, who gets the train to work, I fully understand why an RS6 wouldn't even be on your radar - you'd get a small sports car. However, that shouldn't stop an enthusiast appreciating the engineering behind a car a like this.

So you did a boring journey and found it boring? I don't get your point. Fundamentally it is like any other A6 on a motorway schlep because that's what it's supposed to be like - effortless. Personally, I've found the RS6 to have the most comfortable seats for long distances. If it wasn't for fuel consumption, I reckon I could do my trips to European tracks without a stop.

It comfortably seats 5 grown adults and will sit at a 140mph cruise without batting an eyelid. You can launch it in pouring rain, with no fuss. With the cylinder deactivation coming on, the 4.0 V8 with 600bhp can show me 30mpg. The rear diff allows me to turn in a 2,000kg car at speed without understeer. In fact, I had to replace my rear tyres before my fronts.

I'll admit, it's not as dynamic as my GT3. But it does a lot more things. And it was cheaper. So do you count a GT3 as over priced as a result? Or are you only interested in cars with a singular purpose?

Because Audis aren't known for being out-and-out driver's cars, armchair experts tend to bash them; it's a safe opinion to have. Have you actually driven a [i]new[i] shape C7 RS6? I find it curious that, as a racing driver who gets to drive very focused cars, I find the RS6 brilliant. And if my opinion counts for nothing, Tiff on 5th Gear rated the RS6 as a better track car than a RWD E63 AMG.

I just find it unfathomable that you come to the conclusion that a car like this is 'boring'. Given anyone who has been in my car has been overwhelming with praise, you must be a hard guy to please.

[Icehanger]

surely the question should be..

Parked up on your drive in the West Midlands, which would need more domination of the stairs?

[Pegscratch]

Andy20vt said:

I was simply pointing out the financial fallacy of buying a new RS6 v's a well cared for example that's a few years old. What you (or anyone else) does with their money is your own choice and only you can know whether that 'new car smell' is worth an extra £60k or so. For me it isn't, but please don't take it as a personal insult - it wasn't meant like that. Simply my opinion, that's all.

Except if you want a nice interior as the C5 is exceptionally bad by today's standards, and the C6 is starting to look dated.

Not everybody with these is "keeping up with the Jones' ". Peter Jones for example, of Dragon's Den fame and all round nice bloke with truckloads of cash, may just want a nice shiny blue fast wagon that makes the C5 and C6 RS6es look like blancmanges. Utterly bizarre to comment that people that clearly have oodles of cash to spend £100k on a brand new RS6 should instead buy either a fairly old example or an exceptionally old example and save their money. They aren't trying to scrape by day-to-day, I dare suggest very few people who go out and buy a new car of this level and price are too bothered about saving money.

I think as well as the above it's worth validating - have you ever owned and looked after a C5 RS6? They are ruinous. Absolutely superb cars but utterly ruinous. Everything under the sun is an engine-out or at least a massive disassembly job, they eat various components as if they're a tasty bit of prime steak and they make George Best look like he simply enjoys an odd drink out with friends every once in a while. Everything from thousands to fix or replace DRC components, thousands to replace the gearbox, thousands to replace turbos, thousands to replace cams - and these are the common faults at this age! It's at best a 13-14 year old car.

[anonymous-user]

Pegscratch said:

Except if you want a nice interior as the C5 is exceptionally bad by today's standards, and the C6 is starting to look dated.

Is a newer interior worth an extra £70k though? Not in my eyes.

Pegscratch said:

Not everybody with these is "keeping up with the Jones' ". Peter Jones for example, of Dragon's Den fame and all round nice bloke with truckloads of cash, may just want a nice shiny blue fast wagon that makes the C5 and C6 RS6es look like blancmanges. Utterly bizarre to comment that people that clearly have oodles of cash to spend £100k on a brand new RS6 should instead buy either a fairly old example or an exceptionally old example and save their money. They aren't trying to scrape by day-to-day, I dare suggest very few people who go out and buy a new car of this level and price are too bothered about saving money.

No but perhaps there are better places to spend the same said money than a brand new RS6? E.g. our business sponsors a local conservation project which gives myself and my children (and other peoples children) much pleasure. Much more pleasure I'm sure than a £100k new car smell and a slightly more modern interior. Up to you what you value at the end of the day I guess?

Pegscratch said:

I think as well as the above it's worth validating - have you ever owned and looked after a C5 RS6? They are ruinous. Absolutely superb cars but utterly ruinous. Everything under the sun is an engine-out or at least a massive disassembly job, they eat various components as if they're a tasty bit of prime steak and they make George Best look like he simply enjoys an odd drink out with friends every once in a while. Everything from thousands to fix or replace DRC components, thousands to replace the gearbox, thousands to replace turbos, thousands to replace cams - and these are the common faults at this age! It's at best a 13-14 year old car.

If you do your research (half the fun) and hunt out a good one (again a load more fun), then a C5 RS6, although never cheap to run, should not be ruinous at all. Depreciation on a C5 RS6 is now zero. What is 100% ruinous though is loosing a huge chunk of depreciation on a brand new RS6. For someone else to take those HUGE depreciation (or PCP) costs on board, benefiting me when I purchase second hand, I am truly grateful.

[Pegscratch]

What is there to stop someone that well off sponsoring a conservation project as well as having an RS6? Are we now not grateful enough for what they're giving "because they could clearly give more as they're driving an expensive car"?

We're very much into Jeremy Corbyn territory here, so I'm going to find the door, but this site really is going to hell in a handbasket at the moment. Only here, which used to be a motoring forum, could we have someone try to genuinely argue that instead of buying a glorious piece of engineering that should be celebrated we should be drinking kale and coconut shakes or whatever hippy st is fashionable this week.

Un-fking-believable. We get it, you've grown old and got bored of cars now, priorities are changing and the grandchildren enjoy coming for a bag of Werther's Original. Why should those who still appreciate these marvelous pieces of engineering (and those who can actually afford them) be made to feel like they should have propped up some community fund?

Edited by Pegscratch on Tuesday 28th November 14:06

[sr.guiri]

HeMightBeBanned said:

"Which is best?"

Surely you mean "Which is better?".

Best, Better, Whatever......who gives a st.....love big V8s, love fast estates, but there's something about these that makes me feel cold. I can't imagine the reason for buying one, or who would buy one. The BHP battle is getting seriously dull.

[Deep]

Pegscratch said:

What is there to stop someone that well off sponsoring a conservation project as well as having an RS6? Are we now not grateful enough for what they're giving "because they could clearly give more as they're driving an expensive car"?

We're very much into Jeremy Corbyn territory here, so I'm going to find the door, but this site really is going to hell in a handbasket at the moment. Only here, which used to be a motoring forum, could we have someone try to genuinely argue that instead of buying a glorious piece of engineering that should be celebrated we should be drinking kale and coconut shakes or whatever hippy st is fashionable this week.

Un-fking-believable. We get it, you've grown old and got bored of cars now, priorities are changing and the grandchildren enjoy coming for a bag of Werther's Original. Why should those who still appreciate these marvelous pieces of engineering (and those who can actually afford them) be made to feel like they should have propped up some community fund?

Edited by Pegscratch on Tuesday 28th November 14:06

Absolutely agree.

We've now sunk to the level where it is suggested by one forum member that other members should buy an older cheaper car and contribute the savings to conservation projects so that the former members children can enjoy them.

Have I stumbled onto a website sponsored by Momentum??

[GG89]

hondansx said:

culpz said:

IanCress said:

Got to love PH. Read a story about 2 of the fastest estate cars available, and all people comment on is grammar and the fact it would be better as a 2L diesel. I'm sure half the people on here are on the wrong website.

It's all the typical supercar comments that you'd usually get, that are now even being applied to quick estate cars:

"what's the point in having all that power?", "where are you supposed to use it all?", "why didn't you just get a diesel?", "i don't really see the point?", etc.

It's either the wrong site or the correct site, depending on how you view of the place. I expect nothing less now;' It's no longer a site for enthusiasts anymore.

Some find it difficult to be happy for others. Let's face it, most if not all of those comments are from people who simply cannot afford either car. It makes them feel better about themselves if they can disregard it as 'pointless' or the often used "more money than sense" response.

It's as much a societal problem than it is individual.

Nail on the head.

[W124]

hondansx said:

What does being expensive have anything to do with it? It just sounds like inverse snobbery to me.

If you are a single 20 something, who gets the train to work, I fully understand why an RS6 wouldn't even be on your radar - you'd get a small sports car. However, that shouldn't stop an enthusiast appreciating the engineering behind a car a like this.

So you did a boring journey and found it boring? I don't get your point. Fundamentally it is like any other A6 on a motorway schlep because that's what it's supposed to be like - effortless. Personally, I've found the RS6 to have the most comfortable seats for long distances. If it wasn't for fuel consumption, I reckon I could do my trips to European tracks without a stop.

It comfortably seats 5 grown adults and will sit at a 140mph cruise without batting an eyelid. You can launch it in pouring rain, with no fuss. With the cylinder deactivation coming on, the 4.0 V8 with 600bhp can show me 30mpg. The rear diff allows me to turn in a 2,000kg car at speed without understeer. In fact, I had to replace my rear tyres before my fronts.

I'll admit, it's not as dynamic as my GT3. But it does a lot more things. And it was cheaper. So do you count a GT3 as over priced as a result? Or are you only interested in cars with a singular purpose?

Because Audis aren't known for being out-and-out driver's cars, armchair experts tend to bash them; it's a safe opinion to have. Have you actually driven a [i]new[i] shape C7 RS6? I find it curious that, as a racing driver who gets to drive very focused cars, I find the RS6 brilliant. And if my opinion counts for nothing, Tiff on 5th Gear rated the RS6 as a better track car than a RWD E63 AMG.

I just find it unfathomable that you come to the conclusion that a car like this is 'boring'. Given anyone who has been in my car has been overwhelming with praise, you must be a hard guy to please.

Please re-read this. It’s insanely patronising.

[popeyewhite]

hondansx said:

Given anyone who has been in my car has been overwhelming with praise

How did you still manage to drive?

I owned an RS6, It didn't handle but had loads of character and I still hold fond memories - nearly a decade later. I'll bet the latest is a stunner, but I don't think these are worth the astronomical sums they are sold as new for.

[alexrogers92]

Both look like awesome 'do everything' cars. I have to say I prefer the look of the Audi though. The Mercedes just looks a little more 'friendly'.

[TS7]

Re. 8/9 speed gearboxes: it's what, along with gobs of torque, allows these car to accelerate with such vim. They're up to 3rd/4th in an instant, it seems.

Anyhoo, as to interior, and exterior, styling. That's a matter purely of personal taste. I prefer the Audi, on both counts. To those who prefer the MB, that's fine - I won't try to persuade you otherwise if you'll allow me the same courtesy.

An owner of either of these won't walk from driveway to front door disappointed in their performance on the drive home. Indeed every journey is an 'event'.

I got my '6 before the MB was available. I think I'd make the same choice now - not least because our Audi dealer is head and shoulders above our local MB outlet. (Mrs TS7 would insist on getting a GLC, but that's another story...)

Edited by TS7 on Thursday 30th November 21:10

Edited by TS7 on Thursday 30th November 21:11