Cars that made no impact or contribution to motoring
Discussion
Vitorio said:
captain_cynic said:
The Ford Falcon
Yup, no contribution at all 
And AFAIK, Falcons and Commodores are quite beloved down under.
In addition big lazy v8 engines are perfect for long distance driving where the engine is stressed less and petrol is cheap.
Afaik the falcon also came in a 4 cylinder version
captain_cynic said:
The Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore.
Many of you have probably never heard of the former and know the other as some Australian produced Vauxhall. The truth is they were both dreadful cars with the Commodore descending from the Opel Reckford and the Falcon from the Ford Zephyr. The later generations were American style muscle cars with weak American engines. They were big, heavy, drank like a fish produced very little power (270 KW or 360 HP from a 6.2L V8) and are now gone... nothing of value has been lost.
Its a car that no-one wanted, the interiors were rubbish, the base model was a V6 that was outperformed by a 2L I4. The V8s were too costly to run in Europe as well as being outclassed by the Germans for the same money and they more expensive to buy than American muscle cars so they never sold in the states. Holden tried exporting the Commodore as the VXR8 and Chevy SS (stands for Sports Sedan (Saloon in UK parlance) and they still haven't figured out why that never worked in Europe). Ford on the other hand hardly ever tried exporting the Falcon.
In the end, they died an unglamorous death after an unglamorous life and having almost no impact on motoring. The only ones morning their passing are Bogans.
Hello I'm a Bogan,Many of you have probably never heard of the former and know the other as some Australian produced Vauxhall. The truth is they were both dreadful cars with the Commodore descending from the Opel Reckford and the Falcon from the Ford Zephyr. The later generations were American style muscle cars with weak American engines. They were big, heavy, drank like a fish produced very little power (270 KW or 360 HP from a 6.2L V8) and are now gone... nothing of value has been lost.
Its a car that no-one wanted, the interiors were rubbish, the base model was a V6 that was outperformed by a 2L I4. The V8s were too costly to run in Europe as well as being outclassed by the Germans for the same money and they more expensive to buy than American muscle cars so they never sold in the states. Holden tried exporting the Commodore as the VXR8 and Chevy SS (stands for Sports Sedan (Saloon in UK parlance) and they still haven't figured out why that never worked in Europe). Ford on the other hand hardly ever tried exporting the Falcon.
In the end, they died an unglamorous death after an unglamorous life and having almost no impact on motoring. The only ones morning their passing are Bogans.
The Falcon has sold since 1960 and the Commodore since 1978 GM and Ford wouldn't flog dead horses for that long. They outsold the equivalent from Nissan and Toyota since 1991 has an entire race series dedicated to the cars.
Black = total large car segment
Red = Holden
Blue = Ford
Green = Toyota Camry
Purple = Other
Are you friends with the guy who posted up the Evo & Impreza?
AlexIT said:
Don't tell me that in the UK you were not honoured by the delight of this car:
The almighty FIAT DUNA
It is said the -few- we could ever see on the road were gifted at TV-shows as no-one with a single brain cell would have ever considered to actually pay to have one.
The almighty FIAT DUNA
It is said the -few- we could ever see on the road were gifted at TV-shows as no-one with a single brain cell would have ever considered to actually pay to have one.
Sold massively in Brazil and other parts of South America (where it was manufactured) and kept the FIAT brand alive there (and afloat in general) as well as providing employment to tens of thousands of people.
Essentially a booted Uno (not a bad car), designed for markets where hatchbacks are considered downmarket and utilitarian.
Edited by r11co on Friday 23 March 11:32
Allow me to point out that I'm Australian and I've driven both Falcons and Commo's. They're crap. Imagine a river barge with even worse handling.
And AFAIK, Falcons and Commodores are quite beloved down under.Only beloved by the Bogans... Would you like the UK to be defined by what Chavs like? Realistically, no-one is mourning it because it really was a crap car.
However made absolutely no impact on motoring. The last falcon had a 4L straight six that was vastly superior to almost anything Ford had at the time... no other car used it because there was no use for it. American muscle car enthusiasts would turn their nose up at a straight six turbo and Ford had no platform for it in Europe (also was inferior to smaller German straight 6's).
The most sought after engine in a Falcon or Commodore was a Nissan RB30 straight six in the VL, to this day RB30 VL's sell for more than later V8's. This engine was chosen because GM didn't have a 6 cylinder engine that could use unleaded fuel (which was a requirement for new cars at the time in Australia). So the only remotely desirable Australian car... is ostensibly Japanese.
Vitorio said:
captain_cynic said:
The Ford Falcon
Yup, no contribution at all And AFAIK, Falcons and Commodores are quite beloved down under.
However made absolutely no impact on motoring. The last falcon had a 4L straight six that was vastly superior to almost anything Ford had at the time... no other car used it because there was no use for it. American muscle car enthusiasts would turn their nose up at a straight six turbo and Ford had no platform for it in Europe (also was inferior to smaller German straight 6's).
Efbe said:
Afaik the falcon also came in a 4 cylinder version
As did the Commodore for a time.The most sought after engine in a Falcon or Commodore was a Nissan RB30 straight six in the VL, to this day RB30 VL's sell for more than later V8's. This engine was chosen because GM didn't have a 6 cylinder engine that could use unleaded fuel (which was a requirement for new cars at the time in Australia). So the only remotely desirable Australian car... is ostensibly Japanese.
TommoAE86 said:
Hello I'm a Bogan,
The Falcon has sold since 1960 and the Commodore since 1978 GM and Ford wouldn't flog dead horses for that long. They outsold the equivalent from Nissan and Toyota since 1991 has an entire race series dedicated to the cars.
Black = total large car segment
Red = Holden
Blue = Ford
Green = Toyota Camry
Purple = Other
Are you friends with the guy who posted up the Evo & Impreza?
If they were doing so well, why did they stop production?The Falcon has sold since 1960 and the Commodore since 1978 GM and Ford wouldn't flog dead horses for that long. They outsold the equivalent from Nissan and Toyota since 1991 has an entire race series dedicated to the cars.
Black = total large car segment
Red = Holden
Blue = Ford
Green = Toyota Camry
Purple = Other
Are you friends with the guy who posted up the Evo & Impreza?
Because for almost a decade the government had been paying money to Ford and Holden just to keep the factories open. When the tax money tap was turned off, they stopped Australian production. Sorry if reality tarnishes your rose tinted views of what were, and I'm being quite generous here, at best average cars.
Care to post the export stats of the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion (Camry)... You'll find that the only one exported in significant number was the Aurion. No-one wanted the Falcodores and no-one misses them now they're gone.
Also care to post what contribution or impact they made to motoring? As yet the closest we've got is a contribution to cinema and few outside Australia could identify the car as being a Falcon, almost no-one could identify the model without looking it up (XB GT for those playing along at home).
Edited by captain_cynic on Friday 23 March 11:38
captain_cynic said:
If they were doing so well, why did they stop production?
He didnt say they were still doing well, the graph clearly shows a decline. The point was that they sold milions and apparently were worth producing for decades...Edited by captain_cynic on Friday 23 March 11:38
VW stopped making beetles, clearly they had no impact what so ever to motoring...
And claiming on bogans love em, even if that is true (which would mean a significant portion of Ausies are both apparently white trash and can afford to buy new cars looking at those production stats), the premise of the thread wasnt "Cars that werent loved by us powerfully built upper class PH folk"
Vitorio said:
He didnt say they were still doing well, the graph clearly shows a decline. The point was that they sold milions and apparently were worth producing for decades...
The Vauxhall Vectra sold far more, that doesn't make it a good car.However for years the car industry has been propped up by billions of tax dollars in Australia because there was a misguided belief that we had to make cars in Australia, cars that didn't sell anywhere else. This is always glossed over. The UK and Germany at least export a lot of the cars they produce.
Vitorio said:
VW stopped making beetles, clearly they had no impact what so ever to motoring...
And claiming on bogans love em, even if that is true (which would mean a significant portion of Ausies are both apparently white trash and can afford to buy new cars looking at those production stats), the premise of the thread wasnt "Cars that werent loved by us powerfully built upper class PH folk"
No the point of the thread was "Cars that made no impact or contribution to motoring" and the Falcon and Commodore made zero impact over their history.And claiming on bogans love em, even if that is true (which would mean a significant portion of Ausies are both apparently white trash and can afford to buy new cars looking at those production stats), the premise of the thread wasnt "Cars that werent loved by us powerfully built upper class PH folk"
In fact, most people wont even know what they were, they were that noteworthy.
Heaveho said:
r11co said:
You weren't being subtle, you were being irrelevant.
Said with breathtaking disregard for the irony contained therein. My congratulations sir! Still missing it I see.
Vitorio said:
the premise of the thread wasnt "Cars that werent loved by us powerfully built upper class PH folk"
It is really where this is going, isn't it. It is just an expression of personal taste with no regards or even understanding of the brief. A massive display of ignorance on the part of most contributors.Edited by r11co on Friday 23 March 11:58
r11co said:
Not at all. You missed my point that the bulk of this thread is irrelevant (as was your contribution to criticise people pointing it out).
Still missing it I see....
Can't see it for tears of laughter, to be fair...........Still missing it I see....
It's possible I've stopped taking this thread as seriously as the op intended!
Limpet said:
I cannot think of a single thing it did better than the Cavalier it replaced, and was far less reliable, at least initially. Coolest door mirrors on the planet, mind.
For better or worse, you can't say that hasn't had an impact on UK motoring.
99dndd said:
Limpet said:
I cannot think of a single thing it did better than the Cavalier it replaced, and was far less reliable, at least initially. Coolest door mirrors on the planet, mind.
For better or worse, you can't say that hasn't had an impact on UK motoring.
Pretty much my point exactly. Impact and contribution can also be negative, with a positive conclusion being a drive for improvement. Any car getting a mention in this thread (with a host of justification) is an instant fail WRT the brief.
This thread should be empty as any car that had no impact or contribution wouldn't be remembered, by definition.
r11co said:
Ah yes, the last resort of the failed debater - 'It was all a laugh".
Oh please, not more irony.You point out that it's poor clickbait. Then you not only click on it, but continue to post on it. And continue to allow yourself to be baited. Stop while you're not too far behind.
Edited by Heaveho on Friday 23 March 12:11
Heaveho said:
Oh please, not more irony.
You point out that it's poor clickbait. Then you not only click on it, but continue to post on it. And continue to allow yourself to be baited. Stop while you're not too far behind.
Ah right - I see! You hitched on to a throwaway line and derailed the thread for sYou point out that it's poor clickbait. Then you not only click on it, but continue to post on it. And continue to allow yourself to be baited. Stop while you're not too far behind.
ts and giggles. That thought never occurred to me...Maybe I should have said troll instead of irrelevant.
r11co said:
Ah right - I see! You hitched on to a throwaway line and derailed the thread for sts and giggles. That thought never occurred to me...
Maybe I should have said troll instead of irrelevant.
Ah, you see. Finally realised where you went wrong. Yeah, throwaway line. If you don't want to be picked up on it, best not say it. What else hasn't occurred to you? That you've derailed the thread by criticising it? You weren't contributing to the thread for the reasons it was started, you contributed to knock the people already commenting.ts and giggles. That thought never occurred to me...Maybe I should have said troll instead of irrelevant.
Troll indeed. For the sake of the continuation of the thread, and everyone else boredom levels, I suggest we both step off now.
Edited by Heaveho on Friday 23 March 12:40
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
jamei303 said:
The Montego was actually alright, drove well enough and carted plenty of eighties reps and the like up and down the country, the Sierra was generally a lumpen, lolloping thing unless you got a sporty one, the Cavalier was better but the handlign was scappy, Montego handled really well, I had a Manta GTE and a Montego seemed like a revelation after that, RWD and a bit of rally heritage didnt seem to help my one, mainly understeered but the Montego was planted and grippy.
But, we like to slag off our own stuff, they werent perfect by any stretch, prone to rust and mechanical gremlins but neither were they the rubbish some seem to make out then get all excitable about an original Mini or MK1 Escort like its the second coming, back in 86 or thereabouts, drivers of those old cars would have killed for the luxury of a new Montego 1.6 HL.
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