RE: BMW M5: PH Fleet
Discussion
theboss said:
popeyewhite said:
theboss said:
Calculate the inflation since list at launch though (1989) and that figure is £80k
Actually it's £79k, if you want to pick the year furthest from memory. But no matter. There were few options as most stuff was standard. Want a similar level of what's on offer and you have to tick all the options. Do that and it'll be over £100,000 ! Hugely overpriced for a fast saloon.The fact is, the current F90, even if selling at its list price of ~£90k is really not that far removed from the £79k inflation adjusted list price of its 29 year old equivalent. Throw in the more typical discount at a later date and its probably cheaper. The F10 was.
Edited by theboss on Tuesday 17th April 15:03
popeyewhite said:
theboss said:
popeyewhite said:
theboss said:
Calculate the inflation since list at launch though (1989) and that figure is £80k
Actually it's £79k, if you want to pick the year furthest from memory. But no matter. There were few options as most stuff was standard. Want a similar level of what's on offer and you have to tick all the options. Do that and it'll be over £100,000 ! Hugely overpriced for a fast saloon.The fact is, the current F90, even if selling at its list price of ~£90k is really not that far removed from the £79k inflation adjusted list price of its 29 year old equivalent. Throw in the more typical discount at a later date and its probably cheaper. The F10 was.
Edited by theboss on Tuesday 17th April 15:03
The new m5 has some desirable items such as full leather than were options on the f10 and as such the list price difference between the f10 and the f90 isn't as much as it first seems
popeyewhite said:
theboss said:
popeyewhite said:
theboss said:
Calculate the inflation since list at launch though (1989) and that figure is £80k
Actually it's £79k, if you want to pick the year furthest from memory. But no matter. There were few options as most stuff was standard. Want a similar level of what's on offer and you have to tick all the options. Do that and it'll be over £100,000 ! Hugely overpriced for a fast saloon.The fact is, the current F90, even if selling at its list price of ~£90k is really not that far removed from the £79k inflation adjusted list price of its 29 year old equivalent. Throw in the more typical discount at a later date and its probably cheaper. The F10 was.
Edited by theboss on Tuesday 17th April 15:03
Or have I misunderstood?
E65Ross said:
I appreciate what you're saying, but the whole point of an M5 is that you want a car that can do BOTH the driving quick as well as the mundane stuff. Sure, it's a compromise, but not everyone wants to drive a Caterham at the weekends and a diesel during the week. Some people want 1 car. Hence there's a market for these sorts of cars.
Why though?What on earth is the appeal of driving an otherwise average saloon on the motorway, stopping more often than a diesel and comparable to a good EV just so you can drive a stupidly overpowered and oversized car on country roads hoping the police, or a tractor, don't bring your ride to a premature end, or drive an overcomplex, far too heavy car on track with nowhere near the driver involvement,or even sense of speed, a £5k go-kart would give?
Followed by going home worrying about how much a paint scratch, or funny knock, is going to cost you.
Just... tell me which part of that experience is worth spending money on. An E63 makes a nice noise at least.
Where's the good bit?
E65Ross said:
I may have misread it, but I think he perhaps did answer your point....you've said "You couldn't have spent that much on the E34 even if you'd wanted." and he had said, in effect, the E34 M5 options were quite vast, and 1989 inflation rates take it to a circa £79k car....and given the options then you could, inflation adjusted, spend £90k on an E34 M5.
Or have I misunderstood?
On the contrary, I don't think there were many options to add to an E34, and what existed were probably more minor trim or accessory deviations rather than things like ceramic brakes and competion packs.Or have I misunderstood?
From what I can see things like sunroof and electric seats with memory might have been costly, but otherwise we're talking metallic paints, CD changes, rear electric windows, passenger airbag, etc. all things which have long since become standard or irrelevant.
My point was that you really don't have to spend more than £90k on the current M5, the standard spec is huge, its comparable to the standard F10 with at least £15k of options added, and that itself was very generously specced compared to a standard 5-series.
paranoid airbag said:
Why though?
What on earth is the appeal of driving an otherwise average saloon on the motorway, stopping more often than a diesel and comparable to a good EV just so you can drive a stupidly overpowered and oversized car on country roads hoping the police, or a tractor, don't bring your ride to a premature end, or drive an overcomplex, far too heavy car on track with nowhere near the driver involvement,or even sense of speed, a £5k go-kart would give?
Followed by going home worrying about how much a paint scratch, or funny knock, is going to cost you.
Just... tell me which part of that experience is worth spending money on. An E63 makes a nice noise at least.
Where's the good bit?
I think its hard to convince somebody with these sort of preconceptions, but for me personally its the perfect 'all round' car for the money.What on earth is the appeal of driving an otherwise average saloon on the motorway, stopping more often than a diesel and comparable to a good EV just so you can drive a stupidly overpowered and oversized car on country roads hoping the police, or a tractor, don't bring your ride to a premature end, or drive an overcomplex, far too heavy car on track with nowhere near the driver involvement,or even sense of speed, a £5k go-kart would give?
Followed by going home worrying about how much a paint scratch, or funny knock, is going to cost you.
Just... tell me which part of that experience is worth spending money on. An E63 makes a nice noise at least.
Where's the good bit?
I've had all sorts of sized cars over the years and my personal preference is to do my ~30k/year in something 5-series sized. Whenever I go bigger I end up down-sizing again, and whenever I go smaller I very swiftly get fed up and gravitate back towards the larger car. It seems to cover all bases, any bigger (7/S/A8) and its too barge-like on country roads. Any smaller and I tire of it on a long-distance trip. Its big enough for family duties, tip duties, station/supermarket duties, holidays, continental drives, etc. yet isn't overwhelmingly difficult to park in a typical station or office car park and also doesn't stand out as anything particularly special. Dynamically a 5-series has always done a good job of shrinking around the driver. The M5 is far superior to the standard range in this respect - suspension, steering, drivetrain have nothing in common with the standard cars plus LSD etc.
So why an M5 and not a 535d? Its hard to justify the cost sometimes when the diesel will do the motorway stuff just as well, as would a 640d/740d. What I like about the M5 is the enjoyment factor you can get in almost any drive that isn't either a heavy traffic commute or a point to point motorway journey. Its a very enjoyable car to drive down A roads. Overtaking is effortless to the point that unless traffic is very heavy in both directions I never get inconvenienced by slow moving vehicles for very long. The range of 300-330 miles is fine with me but then I have bladder problems anyway. I find every journey in the M5 is enjoyable and I've put 85k miles on mine from new now without once thinking of changing it. The occasional trip to Germany has been memorable as I've done a handful of enjoyable ring laps on the way back from a business conference. The stability of the car under high speed and/or heavy braking is superior to virtually anything else in its class, which instils a lot of confidence whether storming an autobahn or simply covering ground quickly late at night in the UK. I've come close to losing my licence a few times but not doing anything that I haven't done before in a 530d, 730d, 330i etc.
Any other questions? I'd quite happily buy another one when the current car breaks hopefully at 200k+ miles.
Max_Torque said:
......very, very few of those cars will every gets driven anywhere the limit of their capabilities (because they are to fast and modern road conditions and laws make them un-useable in-extremis).
I'm guessing you've never had a car of that capability. The often trotted out rhetoric about not being able to use anything like such a cars unusable is rubbish. My car has 510hp, but a similar PWR to the M5.....I get to properly use it plenty, as getting through a set of tyres in c8,000 miles will testify 
Max_Torque said:
Given that the 6cly diesel 5er does 155 mph and 0-60 in 5 odd seconds, there is no realistic on-road scenario where you could get anywhere any quicker in the M5 (unless you live in Scotland and are also willing to take absolutely massive risks in the way you drive, which most people with £100k to spend on a car aren't)
I also came from a 6-cyl diesel BMW, and one with 370bhp rather than the 530d with 100bhp less. Trust me when I say I can get everywhere significantly faster now, than I could in the oil burner Edited by Ares on Tuesday 17th April 17:43
popeyewhite said:
E65Ross said:
I appreciate what you're saying, but the whole point of an M5 is that you want a car that can do BOTH the driving quick as well as the mundane stuff. Sure, it's a compromise, but not everyone wants to drive a Caterham at the weekends and a diesel during the week. Some people want 1 car. Hence there's a market for these sorts of cars.
Personally I'd only have an M5 as part of a two car setup. Can't get a dog in the back... 
paranoid airbag said:
E65Ross said:
I appreciate what you're saying, but the whole point of an M5 is that you want a car that can do BOTH the driving quick as well as the mundane stuff. Sure, it's a compromise, but not everyone wants to drive a Caterham at the weekends and a diesel during the week. Some people want 1 car. Hence there's a market for these sorts of cars.
Why though?What on earth is the appeal of driving an otherwise average saloon on the motorway, stopping more often than a diesel and comparable to a good EV just so you can drive a stupidly overpowered and oversized car on country roads hoping the police, or a tractor, don't bring your ride to a premature end, or drive an overcomplex, far too heavy car on track with nowhere near the driver involvement,or even sense of speed, a £5k go-kart would give?
Followed by going home worrying about how much a paint scratch, or funny knock, is going to cost you.
Just... tell me which part of that experience is worth spending money on. An E63 makes a nice noise at least.
Where's the good bit?
Ares said:
paranoid airbag said:
E65Ross said:
I appreciate what you're saying, but the whole point of an M5 is that you want a car that can do BOTH the driving quick as well as the mundane stuff. Sure, it's a compromise, but not everyone wants to drive a Caterham at the weekends and a diesel during the week. Some people want 1 car. Hence there's a market for these sorts of cars.
Why though?What on earth is the appeal of driving an otherwise average saloon on the motorway, stopping more often than a diesel and comparable to a good EV just so you can drive a stupidly overpowered and oversized car on country roads hoping the police, or a tractor, don't bring your ride to a premature end, or drive an overcomplex, far too heavy car on track with nowhere near the driver involvement,or even sense of speed, a £5k go-kart would give?
Followed by going home worrying about how much a paint scratch, or funny knock, is going to cost you.
Just... tell me which part of that experience is worth spending money on. An E63 makes a nice noise at least.
Where's the good bit?
t load more expensive than they were a few years ago. 100k is a lot but then again it's an epic car. If you can afford one, go for it.Burwood said:
Neil, do you do 30k p.a? Am I reading that correctly? Bravo.
My mileage in the last year is about 30k miles looking at my service history. Over the duration of my M5 ownership its slightly less: 85k miles in 37 months.I had lumbar surgery and suffered permanent lower body nerve damage 2 years ago and as a result I'm ergonomically somewhat 'fussy', so my enthusiasm for massive ridiculously overpowered barges is now medically justified
if I had the fuel range of a diesel I'd need an in-dwelling catheter - thats a good enough reason not to want one.Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
I wonder how many go for standard spec. Spending that much most people would probably not baulk at £15k more on options... .
To assume someone buying/leasing/financing an £87k car would carefree-ly add £15,000 is a little naive I'm afraid.popeyewhite said:
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
I wonder how many go for standard spec. Spending that much most people would probably not baulk at £15k more on options... .
To assume someone buying/leasing/financing an £87k car would carefree-ly add £15,000 is a little naive I'm afraid.To say someone spending that much would not baulk at £15k is naive.
theboss said:
Burwood said:
Neil, do you do 30k p.a? Am I reading that correctly? Bravo.
My mileage in the last year is about 30k miles looking at my service history. Over the duration of my M5 ownership its slightly less: 85k miles in 37 months.I had lumbar surgery and suffered permanent lower body nerve damage 2 years ago and as a result I'm ergonomically somewhat 'fussy', so my enthusiasm for massive ridiculously overpowered barges is now medically justified
if I had the fuel range of a diesel I'd need an in-dwelling catheter - thats a good enough reason not to want one.
My 3 year old is worse though. The record is stopping 3 times in 20 minutes
Ares said:
Max_Torque said:
......very, very few of those cars will every gets driven anywhere the limit of their capabilities (because they are to fast and modern road conditions and laws make them un-useable in-extremis).
I'm guessing you've never had a car of that capability. The often trotted out rhetoric about not being able to use anything like such a cars unusable is rubbish. My car has 510hp, but a similar PWR to the M5.....I get to properly use it plenty, as getting through a set of tyres in c8,000 miles will testify Max_Torque said:
Given that the 6cly diesel 5er does 155 mph and 0-60 in 5 odd seconds, there is no realistic on-road scenario where you could get anywhere any quicker in the M5 (unless you live in Scotland and are also willing to take absolutely massive risks in the way you drive, which most people with £100k to spend on a car aren't)
I also came from a 6-cyl diesel BMW, and one with 370bhp rather than the 530d with 100bhp less. Trust me when I say I can get everywhere significantly faster now, than I could in the oil burner Edited by Ares on Tuesday 17th April 17:43
;-)
Regarding the "i can get places quicker in M5 than an 535d" well, perhaps you can, but i sure as heck don't want to meet you coming the other way!
My std 335d will easily do well into 3 figures on an average A/B road, so you're gonna have to be doing >120 mph on such roads to get anywhere quicker. Which lets be honest, is reckless in the extreme. What speed do you sit on the m/way for example? You'd have to be doing >150 to "get away" from a 535d in reality......,
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
I wonder how many go for standard spec. Spending that much most people would probably not baulk at £15k more on options... .
To assume someone buying/leasing/financing an £87k car would carefree-ly add £15,000 is a little naive I'm afraid.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff